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Author Topic: The Truly Magical Bullet  (Read 67888 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2018, 02:59:50 PM »
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Watch this, John. I won't stutter or drool, instead I'll offer a reasonable plausible explanation.

The missed shot probably hit concrete and might have fragmented making it even more difficult to find or recover.

You said "plausible explanation", not wild-ass guess that you made up out of whole cloth.

But two can play that game:  then the the bullet that supposedly entered JFK's throat probably hit concrete and might have fragmented making it even more difficult to find or recover.

Besides being a wholly unpleasant arrogant troll, you're also a raging hypocrite.  Your drooling conjectures are somehow superior because . . .

Reasons.

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2018, 02:59:50 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2018, 03:02:36 PM »
All the CTers are dodging it, so I will ask it again:


Question:

If the ?Back of the Neck? and the ?Front of the Neck? wounds were not caused by the same bullet, do people who do not accept the SBT look at this as just an incredible coincidence? Two different bullets caused wounds whose locations suggest that they were caused by the same bullet?



Does anyone want to step up and say ?Yes, that was a bit of a coincidence. Yes, the conspirators really caught a break there.? Or claim ?No, there was no coincidence. The shooters probably just used magnetic bullets?. [/i]

Joe, it's only the people who already believe in the SBT who think that the locations suggest that they were caused by the same bullet.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2018, 03:11:37 PM »
Nothing amazing here. Ballistic tests conducted by Luke and Michael Haag show that the bullet would into very small fragments upon striking the asphalt, leaving a small hole in the asphalt, very much like the damage very busy roads receive on a regular basis. There was no extensive search of the street made. It is no wonder that the bullet, or its fragments, were ever found.

Why do you suppose there was no extensive search of the street made?  Wasn't there supposedly an investigation?  Oh yeah, the investigation had a predetermined conclusion.

But what is the good reason for believing there was a first missed shot at all if there is not evidence of such?  Just because you're assuming that the SBT is true and that there were 3 shots fired?  Because a couple of witnesses said something hit the pavement somewhere?  A couple of witnesses reported smoke on the grassy knoll too.  It's obvious that LNers will defend every element of the narrative no matter how much handwaving is required, but will then turn around and chide others for doing anything similar.

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2018, 03:11:37 PM »


Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2018, 03:20:27 PM »
The bullet that entered JFK's back DID NOT EXIT according to the autopsy witnesses.
But not according to Dr. Humes, who conducted the autopsy!  Why is his conclusion not considered important? Why is a passive observer with no medical training who reached no conclusion used to reject the autopsy findings?

Offline Jim Brunsman

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2018, 03:46:12 PM »
Andrew Mason responded to my post: "But not according to Dr. Humes, who conducted the autopsy!  Why is his conclusion not considered important? Why is a passive observer with no medical training who reached no conclusion used to reject the autopsy findings?"

I know it's hard to believe Humes would lie. But a thorough examination of the autopsy shows many problems. The FBI "Sibert and O'Neill" report states the same thing and when the agents were questioned about this, they said they wrote what Humes said:
?Further probing determined that the distance travelled by this missile was a short distance inasmuch as the end of the opening could be felt with the finger.?

  Other autopsy witnesses stated the same thing and there was considerable consternation that they could not find this bullet.

In my view, Humes was in a very difficult situation. They made Boswell and Humes do TWO brain examinations! This is another bizarre part of the story that has not been explained.

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2018, 03:46:12 PM »


Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2018, 03:48:41 PM »
ALL the 3 bullet are amazing bullets.

1st bullet: WC theorizes was fired at closest range to JFK limo, MISSES the ENTIRE limo. That bullet disappeared, never has been found.
According to the evidence in this case (22+ witnesses who said JFK reacted to it; 40+ witnesses who said that there was only one shot before the midpoint between the first and last; 20+ witnesses who said that the first shot was after z186-191; all of which is consistent with the zfilm and the evidence of those closest to the wounding) the first shot did not miss but struck JFK in the upper back and exited his throat and, according to the trajectory and seating position of JFK and JBC, went to the left side of JBC.

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2nd bullet: CE 399. Truly a remarkable bullet able to remain almost impervious to a whole lot of different forces applied to the FMJ outer shell, from being deflected by elastic human tissue and muscle, to being b slowed by liquid lung tissue, then squeezed and deflected again by rib bones, and then finally shattering wrist bones while "Tumbling end over end" and entering JCs upper wrist BACKWARDS???, ( causing the jagged wound).
Struck JBC in the torso (right armpit) and wrist, sending fragments to the windshield, left sun visor (Greer; zfilm), and over the windshield to the street/curb near James Tague (Tague said he was not hit on the first shot or the last shot and there were only three shots).

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3rd bullet: The head shot Z312-313 bullet. This bullet exploded into at least 6 sizeable fragments of which one is said to have exited from JFK skull and flown over the front seat to the left of Greers head, and flew acrross the green to strike curb near Tague.  The explosion seen in Z film at Z313 from this bullet only lasted 1/18th of a second then evaporated instanteously into the air BEFORE the left hand motorcycle rider, HARGIS, gets spalttered with force he thought was like being hit by "concrete" debris.??


no. 3 bullet is even more amazing considering the orientation of JFKs head at the time of impact is leaning leftward and turned approx 45 degree left, such that if the HSCA diagram for bullet entry and exit (from SE 6th story TSBD), is correct it could only be a very small tangential area of the upper right rear part of the JFK skull, and one has to question an MC FMJ bullet shattering so dramatically into 6 pieces plus leaving trail of fine fragments in brain, from impacting tangentially such a small area of a rigid bone spherical shell.
The third shot is the easiest to figure out because we can see what it did and because of the specific autopsy findings.  You seem to be forgetting that there was an entry hole in the back of JFK's skull that exhibited beveling on the inside of the skull.  And the pieces of skull that fit the large hole or "defect" in the right cerebral hemisphere of the skull were embedded with minute metallic fragments.  How does the inside surface of the skull above and to the right of the eye get embedded with minute metallic fragments from a bullet entering from the other side?

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2018, 04:04:02 PM »
I know it's hard to believe Humes would lie. But a thorough examination of the autopsy shows many problems. The FBI "Sibert and O'Neill" report states the same thing and when the agents were questioned about this, they said they wrote what Humes said:
?Further probing determined that the distance travelled by this missile was a short distance inasmuch as the end of the opening could be felt with the finger.?

Other autopsy witnesses stated the same thing and there was considerable consternation that they could not find this bullet.
That is quite true. It is hard to believe that he would lie, and repeat the lie under oath.  One would need clear and convincing evidence of a lie. But there is a much simpler explanation: initial confusion because of the lack of an apparent exit wound.

What you have quoted may be correct, but this reflects conversations that occurred before Humes became aware that there was a bullet wound in the throat in the same spot where they had done the tracheostomy. Humes stated in his autopsy report CE387 at p.4:

  • "The missile path through the fascia and musculature cannot be easily probed. The wound presumably of exit was that described by Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas in the low anterior cervical region. When observed by Dr. Perry the wound measured "a few millimeters in diameter", however it was extended as a tracheostomy incision and thus its character is distorted at the time of autopsy.

He elaborated on this in his WC testimony (2 H 361):
  • Commander HUMES: ?  Attempts to probe in the vicinity of this wound were unsuccessful without fear of making a false passage.
    Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean by that, Doctor?
    Commander HUMES. Well, the defect in the fascia was quite similar, which is the first firm tissue over the muscle beneath the skin, was quite similar to this. We were unable, however, to take probes and have them satisfactorily fall through any definite path at this point.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 04:54:06 PM by Andrew Mason »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2018, 04:16:17 AM »


Why do you suppose there was no extensive search of the street made?  Wasn't there supposedly an investigation?  Oh yeah, the investigation had a predetermined conclusion.


There was no plan for an investigation because it was assumed the President would not be killed. There was little or no planning for what to do next if the President was killed.

No extensive search of the street was made, so the only conclusion is that the investigation had a predetermined conclusion? You?re the one who makes the unwarranted assumption.


Question:

1.   Is assuming ?The traffic was not shutdown because the investigation had a predetermined conclusion? an unwarranted assumption?




The street was reopened to traffic within a fraction of an hour. It was, after all, about the busiest street in Dallas. Access to the freeway from Downtown Dallas would be greatly curtailed.

While shutting down busy streets, even freeways, is common nowadays, even for fatal traffic accidents, let alone murders, I believe this was unknown before 1964.


Questions:

2.   Can anyone name a single case, in Texas, before 1964, where such a busy street was shut down so a murder investigation could be conducted?

3.   Can anyone name a single case, anywhere in the U. S., before 1964, where such a busy street was shut down so a murder investigation could be conducted?

4.   Murders had been committed by busy streets before, but the street was not immediately shutdown. It is reasonable to expect the Dallas police to suddenly do something they had never done before?

5.   Is it even likely the police would be able to find a few scattered metal fragments somewhere within ten thousand square feet of pavement if they did conduct such a search?






But what is the good reason for believing there was a first missed shot at all if there is not evidence of such?  Just because you're assuming that the SBT is true and that there were 3 shots fired?  Because a couple of witnesses said something hit the pavement somewhere?  A couple of witnesses reported smoke on the grassy knoll too.  It's obvious that LNers will defend every element of the narrative no matter how much handwaving is required, but will then turn around and chide others for doing anything similar.



As you well know, a missed shot is not required for the SBT to work. All the wounds, all the damage to the limousine, the wound to Mr. Tague, can be explained, and is best explained, by two shots, one at z222 and the other at z312.

Still, the evidence for an early missed shot is pretty persuasive.

** Although all the damage is best explained by two bullets, three shells were found on the sixth floor, which means three shots were probably (although not absolutely) fired.

** Governor Connally, reported an early shot that didn?t hit him. Other witnesses report an early shot that, as far as they knew, did not hit anyone.

** A strong Zapruder camera jiggle, like the ones that correspond to z222 and z312, corresponds to z153.

** The angular speed of the target at z153 would be particularly high, 3.8 degrees per second, as opposed to 1.8 degrees per second at z222 and 0.55 degrees per second at z312, which could result in a shot that misses the entire limousine. At least this seems plausible to me.

** A shot at z153 makes some sense. It is about as late as Oswald could wait until the target goes behind a tree. When the target re-emerges around z206 or so, for all Oswald knows, the standing Secret Service agents in the follow-up car might block his view. He may have felt, despite the difficulty of tracking the target that this might be his last real chance.

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Re: The Truly Magical Bullet
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2018, 04:16:17 AM »