The Truly Magical Bullet

[Jack Trojan]

None of that is true.

Uh huh, sure as hell is. There was no blood, tissue or bone on CE-399, which is impossible. It smashed thru bones and dropped out of Connally only slightly deformed, unlike the FMJ bullet that disintegrated in JFK's head. And it showed up on a gurney outside the OR, which was not the gurney that Connally was brought in on.

Which one is not true?

[Jack Trojan]

The problem is that camera shake and panning errors occur for a variety of reasons.  Zapruder was not panning at a constant rate. He stops panning in several places (from z165 to about z186 and z214 to z222 there no panning at all).  He resumes panning at z223 but then stops panning from z227 to z232 (keep your eye on the position of the tree in the background).  So there is bound to be some jerkiness to the image because he is starting and stopping all the time.  Is that because of a shot? I don't think it has been shown that people reflexively start and stop panning when they hear a shot - or just before they hear a shot as in the case of the panning that starts at z223.

You are obviously not a data analyst. You're jumping thru hoops trying to figure out how the body responds to gunshots when the data gives you all that info. Look at the "signature" reflexive response at z313. That is your control.

And you cannot say that people will consistently jiggle the camera when they hear a loud noise without data from actual experiments using a large sample of people that bears this out.  That is the difference between science and a plausible theory.

No, I have done my research into this. A reflexive response to a loud noise is an up and down motion (y axis). I filtered out the X and focused on the Y because this jiggle motion is significant versus "panning", which is not associated with a gunshot jiggle. All the other jiggle analyses seemed to ignore this aspect.

Let's assume that you are right, that Zapruder would have jiggled the camera in response to hearing  a shot.  According to [snip] this Wikipedia page, a reflexive startle response should begin within 60-121 ms. for the head, neck and shoulders to move, or within about 1-2 frames of the loud sound. Let's suppose that the jiggle at z200 was in response to the first shot (Willis, Betzner, motorcade and Elm St. witnesses, etc).  If that was a startle reflex within 60-121 ms of the sound, it would put the shot sound reaching Zapruder at z198 from a bullet that struck 3 frames earlier at z195 and fired at z193-194.  This also fits with Jack Ready's release of his right-hand from the handhold and the beginning of his rearward turn which occurs between z198 and z199. Because Ready was behind the limo, he would have heard the muzzle blast about 2 frames before Zapruder (path difference = 275-150 ft = 125 ft; time diff. = 125/1130 = .110 s or 110 ms.).  All of that fits a shot at z193-194.  There is a lot of witness evidence that puts the first shot about that time. That is corroborated by other evidence such as the Secret Service film showing JFK at that point to be clear of the oak tree as viewed from the SN.   Why do jiggle analysis "experts" reject that jiggle as a response to a shot?

Ok, but you are flying in the dark here. Apply the hypothetical with the actual data and look for reflexive signature jiggles, not the psychological ones. The data should not be affected by bias thinking.

[Bill Chapman]

Uh huh, sure as hell is. There was no blood, tissue or bone on CE-399, which is impossible. It smashed thru bones and dropped out of Connally only slightly deformed, unlike the FMJ bullet that disintegrated in JFK's head. And it showed up on a gurney outside the OR, which was not the gurney that Connally was brought in on.

Which one is not true?

Tell us what FMJ ammo is designed to do, in terms of damage to itself and the victim.

[Jack Trojan]

Tell us what FMJ ammo is designed to do, in terms of damage to itself and the victim.

Not explode in your head, for one. You're forced to conclude that the skull is somehow different from other bone to explain the conditions of CE-399 and the Head Shot bullets. That and the (cough cough) "Jet Effect".

[Howard Gee]

First off, how old are you? What's comical is that you seem to think that if the droolers can't explain where the MB went then you win and that somehow proves the SBT. Like all the LNers, you wouldn't know a logical fallacy if it bit you on the arse. You're in desperate need of some critical thinking skills.

What else is comical is that you assume the conspirators are telling the truth re where all the bullets went and what was found in the limo. The same limo that the SS and FBI scrubbed of evidence then restored for re-service. Then you resort to ridiculing everyone that doesn't believe the WC narrative like the shill and/or sucker that you are.

So tell us droolers why the MB couldn't have entered the throat and exited the back? And before you can ask where the MB went, pls explain how CE-399 showed up the way it did, clean and pristine and on the wrong gurney. How was that possible? Then show us how the MB trajectory was possible from the 6th floor of the TSBD. And don't cite some fictitious study that doesn't even address the issue.

Face it, unless you have tricks up your sleeve (besides infantile insults) you need to answer my questions before I will answer yours. And keep in mind that you can't cite the bible to prove that it's true, just like you can't use the autopsy photos,  x-rays and testimony from the conspirators to prove the SBT is true.

And lastly, us droolers only need 1 contradiction to the LNer narrative to believe there was a conspiracy, while you need to dismiss every single piece of evidence that suggests Saint Oz was not a lone nut. You do realize that both can be true, right? Instead you take the fringe position that most of the world rejects and call us kooks. Go figure.

"What's comical is that you seem to think that if the droolers can't explain where the MB went then you win and that somehow proves the SBT. Like all the LNers, you wouldn't know a logical fallacy if it bit you on the arse. You're in desperate need of some critical thinking skills."

Sheeeeeesh. Another drooling kook lecturing on critical thinking.

Listen up, Trojan. The drooling kook's inability to explain where the bullet went does not prove the SBT, it just demonstrates that the frontal entry is a fantasy.

As far as the rest of your post goes, if we can't use the autopsy photos, x-rays, witness testimony - or for that matter any photos, films, documents, witness testimony or physical evidence - because it's all been faked by the nefarious boogeyman conspirators, then what are we supposed to use ?

The drooling kooks are forced once again to claim that every piece of evidence is faked, (even though they can't show that any of it is) and simultaneously assure the rest of us that they are the sole arbiters of the truth and that there had to be a massive conspiracy to assassinate JFK and frame Saint Oz for the deed (even though they have no evidence to support their contention).

One more thing, Jackie....I haven't seen anyone use the Bible yet to prove the SBT and honestly don't know why you mentioned that, (other than your obvious drooling kook derangement) but find it interesting that you apparently choose to mock people of faith while you're busy worshipping in the Church of Saint Oz.

Challenge still on, droolers.

See if you can do better than drooling Jackie 'all the evidence is faked' Trojan.

Where did the bullet go ?

[John Iacoletti]

You asked what could have happened to a missed shot. I responded that it probably hit concrete and fragmented and rationally explained why trying to find a bullet that missed the limo and could wind up anywhere in or around the plaza would be much more difficult than finding a bullet that supposedly entered JFK's throat.

You didn't "rationally explain" anything.  You just declared that it was probably the case.

I never said "Duh, I dunno...musta disappeared", and if you weren't such a hairless drooling kook you'd realize that the entire point of this thread is that a 'vanishing' bullet isn't a reasonable or plausible position to take.

And yet you believe that your bullet vanished.  Cognitive dissonance anyone?  Better throw out some more juvenile insults to cover it up.

Coward.

[John Iacoletti]

I did a study of the Zapruder film and found that Rosemary Willis started to slow down in the z160?s. She came to a complete stop by around z195 but was slowing down well before then.

. . . and you're just assuming that she's slowing down because of a gun shot?

[John Iacoletti]

Good luck with hitting the precise corner of a curb with a Carcano, or any other rifle, with a shot from 80 yards away.

Seriously, Joe?  Good luck hitting the precise corner of a guy's skull too...