Oswald's Shirt

[Jerry Freeman]

Just to backtrack immediately after the assassination Oswald departs just with the white shirt but apparently goes back in to get the brown overshirt?

 There was a thread on this last year. It got really interesting. There was a lot of linked material.
We can try and revive it....



At 12:44, 14 minutes after the shooting, Dallas Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer called in a description of the presumed assassin. He announced: "The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165, carrying what looks to be a 30-30 or some type of Winchester." He was then asked to confirm that this was a rifle. He responded: "A rifle, yes." He was then asked "Any clothing description?" He responded "Current witness can't remember that."

As a side note the "slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165" is the same exact description...word for word... of a guy that was in Mexico City claiming to be Lee Oswald. The middle name was also given...but it was not Harvey...it was Henry*

*DIR 84730
This is the Oct. 10, 1963 reply to MEXI 6543, reporting an accurate physical description of Lee "Henry" Oswald.
https://www.history-matters.com/frameup.htm

Meanwhile back to the shirt...
Motorcycle Officer Marrion Baker, who?d encountered Oswald in a stairway within a minute and a half of the shooting, described Oswald's clothing as different than the man seen in the window (11-22-63 Affidavit, 24H199): ?The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5?9?, 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.?

I just posted this under the Oswald's Jacket thread...
A statement from Wes Frazier's sister.....


   

Mr. BALL. How was Lee dressed that morning?
    Mrs. RANDLE. He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up, I didn't pay any attention to his pants or anything, when he was going with the package. I was more interested in that. But he had on a white T-shirt and I remember some sort of brown or tan shirt and he had a gray jacket, I believe.

   
The complete post is here..
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,124.msg16375.html#msg16375

There was this Mary Bledsoe woman who stated she was a former landlady of Oswald's.

Mr. BALL - And the bus was going in what direction?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - West.
Mr. BALL - All right, now, tell me what happened?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - And, after we got past Akard, at Murphy---I figured it out. Let's see. I don't know for sure. Oswald got on. He looks like a maniac. His sleeve was out here [indicating]. His shirt was undone.
Mr. BALL - You are indicating a sleeve of a shirt?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - It was unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Was a hole in it, hole, and he was dirty, and I didn't look at him.

****************************************************************
Again asked about the shirt...

Mr. BALL - Now, what color shirt did he have on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He had a brown shirt.
Mr. BALL - And unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to the elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is.
Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off.

************************************************************
This stuff about the shirt must have really bothered the Commission.
Ball would not let it go.

Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
Mr. BALL - I know. What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I can recognize it.
Mr. BALL - Recognize it as what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, sir; see there?

Ball goes on and on...

Mr. BALL - Now, what is there about the shirt that makes you believe that this is the shirt that Oswald had on when he was on the bus? What is there about it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, let's see the front of it. Yes See all this [indicating]? I remember that.
Mr. BALL - Tell me what you see there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I saw the---no; not so much that. It was done after---that is part I recognize more than anything.
Mr. BALL - You are pointing to a hole in the right elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - What about the color?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I---What do you mean?
Mr. BALL - Well----
Mrs. BLEDSOE - When he had it on?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Before he was shot? Yes; I remember it being brown.
Mr. BALL - You remember the shirt being brown. Was it this color?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; it was that color.
Mr. BALL - In other words, when you remember that you have seen something before---

Enough for now about Bledsoe...
It continues like this for another page !!
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm



Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw, & the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?
To be con't...all comments welcome.

Credit to Pat Speer's Threads of Evidence for picture links and some info.

[Tim Nickerson]

Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw, & the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?

Yes, it was.

[Walt Cakebread]

There was a thread on this last year. It got really interesting. There was a lot of linked material.
We can try and revive it....



At 12:44, 14 minutes after the shooting, Dallas Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer called in a description of the presumed assassin. He announced: "The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165, carrying what looks to be a 30-30 or some type of Winchester." He was then asked to confirm that this was a rifle. He responded: "A rifle, yes." He was then asked "Any clothing description?" He responded "Current witness can't remember that."

As a side note the "slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165" is the same exact description...word for word... of a guy that was in Mexico City claiming to be Lee Oswald. The middle name was also given...but it was not Harvey...it was Henry*
Meanwhile back to the shirt...
Motorcycle Officer Marrion Baker, who?d encountered Oswald in a stairway within a minute and a half of the shooting, described Oswald's clothing as different than the man seen in the window (11-22-63 Affidavit, 24H199): ?The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5?9?, 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.?

I just posted this under the Oswald's Jacket thread...
A statement from Wes Frazier's sister.....


       
The complete post is here..
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,124.msg16375.html#msg16375

There was this Mary Bledsoe woman who stated she was a former landlady of Oswald's.****************************************************************
Again asked about the shirt...************************************************************
This stuff about the shirt must have really bothered the Commission.
Ball would not let it go.Ball goes on and on...Enough for now about Bledsoe...
It continues like this for another page !!
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm



Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw, & the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?
To be con't...all comments welcome.

Credit to Pat Speer's Threads of Evidence for picture links and some info.

Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw, & the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?


Motorcycle Officer Marrion Baker, who?d encountered Oswald in a stairway within a minute and a half of the shooting, described Oswald's clothing as different than the man seen in the window (11-22-63 Affidavit, 24H199): ?The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5?9?, 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.?

The man that Baker encountered on either the third or fourth floor was NOT Lee Oswald.    Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom.... They then left Lee in the lunchroom and encountered the 30 years old, 5?9?, 165 pounds, dark haired man, who was wearing a light brown jacket on the fourth floor.  ( Actually I believe it was the fifth floor...and the man's name was Jack )

Now back to the shirt....Lee went to his room and changed his clothes before going to the movies....The FBI found a tuft of fibers on the butt of the rifle and reported that the tuft of fibers matched the shirt that Lee was wearing at the theater.     Houston er have a problem...The shirt that Lee was wearing at the theater was NOT the shirt that he was wearing at the TSBD at the time of the Coup d e'tat.    QUESTION:...   How did the tuft of fibers from the arrest shirt  become caught on the rifle    The authorities had both the shirt and the rifle after Lee was arrested....

[Michael Chambers]

The man that Baker encountered on either the third or fourth floor was NOT Lee Oswald.    Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom.... They then left Lee in the lunchroom and encountered the 30 years old, 5?9?, 165 pounds, dark haired man, who was wearing a light brown jacket on the fourth floor.  ( Actually I believe it was the fifth floor...and the man's name was Jack )

Hi Walt do you happen to have any sources of the 4th or 5th floor guy? 

[Louis Earl]

How do these descriptions mesh with what the Tippit murder witnesses stated?

[Jerry Freeman]

Mrs. Robert A. Reid, who saw Oswald just after his encounter with Baker, signed a statement on 11-22, claiming: "When I saw him he was dressed in a white T-shirt and I don't recall what his trousers were like." (24H223)

A link to her FBI statement on 11- 26 confirming the above....
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FBI-Affidavait-R-Reid-NOv-26-1963.jpg

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather not say, because I just cannot.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on.
**Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen anyone working at the book depository wearing any kind of a shirt or jacket similar to Commission Exhibit 150 or do you know?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not. I have never, so far as I know ever seen that shirt. I have been asked

** Now why did David Belin ask her that? What was this obsession with CE 150?

Was this former landlady Bledsoe lying about the shirt?

Mr. BALL - Now, what is there about the shirt that makes you believe that this is the shirt that Oswald had on when he was on the bus? What is there about it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, let's see the front of it. Yes See all this [indicating]? I remember that.

If Walt is right...

Lee went to his room and changed his clothes before going to the movies

We need to find what we can to verify that LHO changed his shirt.
In the scribbled notes of Will Fritz ...Oswald said he did change his shirt...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29103#relPageId=7&tab=page

We have CE 150


   and then CE 151 In color  here....
 

 

We also have CE 152...Also in color


 

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants.
He, his shirt was open three buttons down here. He had on a T-shirt. You know, the shirt was open three buttons down there.

Whaley states [in his 2nd Warren Commission appearance] that he hadn't really paid much attention at first but it all came back to him and he was able describe everything to a T  [WOW]
CE 152 is kind of reddish brownish maybe with wide silver stripes
But it looks like an ugly pajama top and it's really doubtful that Oswald would wear it in public
Sorry about the really enlarged pictures but I don't know how to redo this

Oswald claimed that he was wearing at work..and described what was later to become CE 151 exactly..precisely.. at his interrogation and then said he changed into shirt [CE 150]
Why would he lie about it? If he had any inkling that there was something incriminating about his morning shirt..than he would have certainly changed out of it and got rid of it.

A 12-1 article in the Washington Star by Jerry O'Leary, a writer more than friendly with the FBI's Deke DeLoach, and someone upon whom the FBI regularly relies to get their stories before the public, declares: "PIECE OF OSWALD'S SHIRT FOUND SNAGGED IN RIFLE." It then goes on to claim "A fragment of Lee Harvey Oswald's shirt was snagged in the rifle that killed President John F. Kennedy, the FBI report of the assassination states. Disclosure of this evidence against the 24 year-old Oswald, himself slain two days after Mr. Kennedy's death, is regarded as one of the most solid pieces of evidence of his guilt. Officials said wisps of brown shirt material were caught in metal parts of the 6.5 mm Italian-made carbine found on the fifth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building a few minutes after the fatal shots were fired on November 22. When Oswald was arrested two hours later, he was wearing a brown shirt of the same material. Oswald claimed he had changed his shirt in his rooming house after leaving the assassination area, but this proved to be untrue. FBI Crime Lab technicians determined by microscopic and other scientific means that the fragment of shirt material came from the shirt the ex-Marine was wearing."

What a fake news crock of crap!
By December first of that year it seems that reporters were free to write anything they wanted  
 

[Gary Craig]

~snip~

"Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?

Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not."

~snip~



Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

----------------------

~snip~

"The first indication of this change is from LHO, via a FBI report dated November 25, 1963, which the WC would mark as Commission Exhibit (CE) 1988. On page 19 of this report we see the following statement:

Quote on

He stated that after arriving at his apartment, he CHANGED his shirt and trousers because they were dirty. He described his dirty clothes as being a reddish colored, long sleeved, shirt with a button-down collar and gray colored trousers. (Emphasis added)"

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0019a.htm

~snip~

[Walt Cakebread]

A link to her FBI statement on 11- 26 confirming the above....
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FBI-Affidavait-R-Reid-NOv-26-1963.jpg
** Now why did David Belin ask her that? What was this obsession with CE 150?

Was this former landlady Bledsoe lying about the shirt?If Walt is right... We need to find what we can to verify that LHO changed his shirt.
In the scribbled notes of Will Fritz ...Oswald said he did change his shirt...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29103#relPageId=7&tab=page

We have CE 150


   and then CE 151 In color  here....
 

 

We also have CE 152...Also in color


 Whaley states [in his 2nd Warren Commission appearance] that he hadn't really paid much attention at first but it all came back to him and he was able describe everything to a T  [WOW]
CE 152 is kind of reddish brownish maybe with wide silver stripes
But it looks like an ugly pajama top and it's really doubtful that Oswald would wear it in public
Sorry about the really enlarged pictures but I don't know how to redo this

Oswald claimed that he was wearing at work..and described what was later to become CE 151 exactly..precisely.. at his interrogation and then said he changed into shirt [CE 150]
Why would he lie about it? If he had any inkling that there was something incriminating about his morning shirt..than he would have certainly changed out of it and got rid of it.
What a fake news crock of crap!
By December first of that year it seems that reporters were free to write anything they wanted  
 

A 12-1 article in the Washington Star by Jerry O'Leary, a writer more than friendly with the FBI's Deke DeLoach, and someone upon whom the FBI regularly relies to get their stories before the public, declares: "PIECE OF OSWALD'S SHIRT FOUND SNAGGED IN RIFLE." It then goes on to claim "A fragment of Lee Harvey Oswald's shirt was snagged in the rifle that killed President John F. Kennedy, the FBI report of the assassination states. Disclosure of this evidence against the 24 year-old Oswald, himself slain two days after Mr. Kennedy's death, is regarded as one of the most solid pieces of evidence of his guilt. Officials said wisps of brown shirt material were caught in metal parts of the 6.5 mm Italian-made carbine found on the fifth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building a few minutes after the fatal shots were fired on November 22. When Oswald was arrested two hours later, he was wearing a brown shirt of the same material. Oswald claimed he had changed his shirt in his rooming house after leaving the assassination area, but this proved to be untrue. FBI Crime Lab technicians determined by microscopic and other scientific means that the fragment of shirt material came from the shirt the ex-Marine was wearing."

Thank you for posting the above.....   As you've pointed out it was "fake news"....( more accurately  it's a damned lie) which was used to convict an innocent man in the eyes of the gullible public. (Keep in mind and remember that this is the work of J.Edgar Hoover)

Lee told the interrogators on Saturday 11/23/63 that he went to his room and changed his clothes ( confirmed by Mrs Roberts) On page 626 of WR Secret Service inspector Kelley says that Lee told him that he went to his room and changed his clothes. 

Quote..."He said he went home, changed his shirt and trousers,put his shirt in a drawer. This was a red shirt, and he put it with his dirty clothes. He described the shirt as having a button down collar and of a reddish color. The trousers were grey colored"...unquote

On page 622 FBI Agent James Bookhout's report for that same interrogation on 11/23/63 ...Bookhout writes ..

Quote..."He changed his shirt and trousers because they were dirty.  He described his dirty clothes as being a reddish colored, long sleeved, shirt WITH A BUTTON DOWN COLLAR, and grey colored trousers. He indicated that he had placed these articles of clothing in the lower drawer of his dresser"  ...unquote   

Clearly Lee was simply telling the interrogators the truth.....and mentioning the detail about the reddish colored shirt had a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR was a simple detail that would blow the whole damned lie because the LNer liars deny that Lee changed his shirt......and they claim the shirt he was wearing at the theater ( the arrest shirt)  was the same shirt he was wearing at the TSBD at the time of the murder.   There are dozens of photo that show Lee wearing the arrest shirt after he was dragged from the theater, and that shirt does NOT have a button down collar.

The cops searched Lee's room at about 4:00 pm on 11/22/63 and they found the reddish colored shirt and grey trousers in the dresser just as Lee said THE NEXT DAY 11/23/63.   The  Potts exhibit lists the items that were taken from Lee room and Detective Potts described the shirt.

Clearly the tuft of fibers on the butt of the rifle was a major blunder by the authorities who were framing Lee Oswald....

The fools rubbed the butt of the rifle on the shirt,and snagged the tuft of fibers, after they took the shirt from Lee's back  ...but they failed to realize that the shirt was NOT the shirt Lee had been wearing at the time of the murder.