James Leon Simmons.... Overpass Witness

[John Iacoletti]

Witnesses sometimes take in what they hear and make it part of their own memories, this is common place and you must know it, it's best avoided and in good policing italways is when possible and the idea is far from contoversial.

Yep.  For example, the 10th and Patton witnesses and the cops in the Texas Theater.

[Barry Pollard]

I know Sam Holland's vision wasn't obstructed and he saw smoke... you've seen the smoke picture with the limo... right?

I know Holland moved south in the first minute, I think he wanted to see where Hargis/Weigman were going or what was behind the Stemmons sign that this cop ran toward(from Sam's POV), I'm almost positive that three of his fellow spectators up there were clapping/waving as the limo approached them, completely unaware of what happened up the street and within feet of Holland, I know what he said, pretty much, yes I've seen what others believe is smoke in a couple extreemly poor low rez Wiegman stills but I don't trust it and sorry, I don't trust Holland, I barely know him, but I understand why others want to.

If there was one piece of evidence that showed Holland behind that fence within a couple minutes, you'd have me but having said that, I've seen Brennan within two minutes looking up to the upper floors of the TSBD as he's stood right next to two or more unmovable cops, it changed nothing, I believe he, like Holland, reacted to the immeadiate aftermath and not the shooting itself, Brennan looked up because a whole motorcade car full of press did before him, Holland looked toward the fence because of Hargis, Haygood and the folks that followed him.

Those sounds were ignored by most and that's why Weigman ran right into the kill zone and gets mistaken for IDK, something, by Hargis.
Wiegman ran right in there with no thought for his safety just for some pictures is this what most believe? Completely ignoring the sound of gunfire. WTH was he thinking? Hargis almost shot him, or certaining pulled his piece out because of him, and ran directly toward him, until DW sees this and puts his own face to the concrete.
No, not me, motorcycle backfire, firecrackers, ignored, no one paniced, no one imeadiatly thought "that's gunfire", except one or two raher special individuals who's senses were far more tuned-in than everyone else, right?
Wiegman ran straight toward what?  He had no idea, he wasn't thinking and he certainly wasn't thinking "gunfire".

My opinion, Holland don't see nothing until someone reacts and there's people stood on Elm itself, much closer, who missed the whole thing because there attention just wasn't on the head as it exploded. That's what it took to wake people up, direct incontrovertable evidence, not firecracker sounds which people could think were part of the parade or belonging to the bikes, find the biggest smile in Altgens, that's probably the normal reaction to "gunfire" on that day, I have found no reaction by the public themselves, only from those that saw the FS and the after effects of those reactions.

tldr: No.

[Mitch Todd]

What have you been smokin', Mitch?

I and I ain't the ganjamon here, Tosh. Your own graphic proves what I said, namely, "from the TP witness' perspective on the overpass, the SE corner of the TSBD is almost directly in line with the corner of the picket fence, where GK theorists like to put a shooter."

I can't say I've ever seen anyone put a GK shooter very far from the corner of the fence. Have you?

Now, given the real world conditions of Dealey Plaza on Nov 11, 1963, how accurate do you think the TP witnesses audio localization capabilities were at the time, in terms of degrees?   

[John Iacoletti]

I and I ain't the ganjamon here, Tosh. Your own graphic proves what I said, namely, "from the TP witness' perspective on the overpass, the SE corner of the TSBD is almost directly in line with the corner of the picket fence, where GK theorists like to put a shooter."

Define "almost".

I can't say I've ever seen anyone put a GK shooter very far from the corner of the fence. Have you?

Yes.  But even the corner of the fence is not "almost" directly in line with the SE corner of the TSBD.  And certainly nowhere near the line of fire to the limo at Z313.

[Mitch Todd]

Define "almost".

Yes.  But even the corner of the fence is not "almost" directly in line with the SE corner of the TSBD.  And certainly nowhere near the line of fire to the limo at Z313.

You're confused. I didn't say anything about the line of fire. At all. I'm talking about the direction of the TSBD SN vs the direction of the usual assumed GK shooter(s) from the perspective of the Union Terminal guys standing on the TP.  From their perspective, a shot from the knoll would come from essentially the same direction as a shot from the SN...and vice versa.

As for "almost," I mean within a few degrees.

[Bill Brown]

I know Sam Holland's VISION wasn't obstructed and he saw the SMOKE come out from the trees....that's the same smoke that Ralph Yarborough smelled at street level. You've seen the "smoke " picture with the limo still in the picture, right ?

Nonsense.

Unless of course, you can be bothered to show this "smoke picture with the limo still in the picture".

Can you?

[John Mytton]

Nonsense.

Unless of course, you can be bothered to show this "smoke picture with the limo still in the picture".

Can you?

The Nix film a few seconds after the assassination pans along the grassy knoll fence and I don't see no smoke?

JohnM

[Bill Brown]

The Nix film a few seconds after the assassination pans along the grassy knoll fence and I don't see no smoke?


JohnM

There is no picture showing smoke, as claimed by forum member Jim Brazell.

I'm sure he is mistaking a still frame from the Weigman film for a "picture".

Regardless, there is no still frame from Weigman showing smoke, either.