What happened to the Mauser?

[Matt Grantham]

Matt, If you can't see with your own eyes that the rifle that was found buried beneath boxes of books on the sixth floor is a Model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano and you continue to entertain the idea that a mauser was actually found, then you've nailed one of your feet to the floor and you are stuck and you won't make any progress.

Walt I am not quite sure why at this point in the conversation you chose to chastise me or whatever you would like me to call it .I relented on Craig Said it is not a make or break issue and it had probably run its course I did say I didn't think it ended the debate and perhaps that is the problem 

 I have never seen Day's photographs of the rifle unless it is the film we keep seeing on these threads I would assume Day took still, closeup shots at some point?  What would be the most convincing evidence would be close up photos of the rifle in question with the faces of the other law enforcement personnel also in the photo so we could be more certain it was taken when all these people were present Now it would take some floor space since the law enforcement would need to lie prone on their backs forming a kind of human pinwheel so the three or four faces would appear in a circle around the rifle

 So yes a bit of absurdity always makes me happy, but it is not aimed at you in any way Walt In fact in some ways it is meant as an allusion to the fact that absolute verfiability has been, and will continue to be, an impossibility

[Jerry Freeman]

From the Sims and Boyd report about the gun being found....
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0268b.htm

I continue to have interest in the accounts that there were guys crawling all around there who these Dallas detectives didn't seem to know.
"A Secret Service agent was there. We didn't know the agents name."
How did they know he was Secret Service?

"An officer from [the ATF] was [also] there."
Everybody but the Mounties was there?
 
On Sunday Nov 24 [Right after Oswald was killed] Det. R.M. Sims called in from home and asked if he "could be of any help".
 

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt I am not quite sure why at this point in the conversation you chose to chastise me or whatever you would like me to call it .I relented on Craig Said it is not a make or break issue and it had probably run its course I did say I didn't think it ended the debate and perhaps that is the problem 

 I have never seen Day's photographs of the rifle unless it is the film we keep seeing on these threads I would assume Day took still, closeup shots at some point?  What would be the most convincing evidence would be close up photos of the rifle in question with the faces of the other law enforcement personnel also in the photo so we could be more certain it was taken when all these people were present Now it would take some floor space since the law enforcement would need to lie prone on their backs forming a kind of human pinwheel so the three or four faces would appear in a circle around the rifle

 So yes a bit of absurdity always makes me happy, but it is not aimed at you in any way Walt In fact in some ways it is meant as an allusion to the fact that absolute verfiability has been, and will continue to be, an impossibility

Matt there are several copies of Tom Alyea's film of DPD Detective John Carl Day examining and carrying the Mannlicher carcano.   There's not a shred of doubt that the rifle that was CAREFULLY  hidden beneath the boxes of books (not tossed aside by a fleeing killer) was a Mannlicher Carcano.   They intended to frame the man that they thought was a communist ( Lee Oswald) and they knew there was a photo that showed him holding a Carcano.....  So they sure as hell wouldn't have planted a mauser in the place where he worked.

This is not denying that they did have a Mauser that they were planning to use in some fashion......because they very definitely DID hand Seymour Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and get him on record as identifying that Mauser....However they never recorded the serial number of that Mauser.   I confess that I don't know what Hoover's agents were trying to pull when thay had Weitzman examine that Mauser..... But You should not accept the tale that the rifle found in the TSBD was a mauser... because it was a Mannlicher Carcano.

And I wasn't chastising you..... I merely want you to benefit from what I've learned....

[Matt Grantham]

From the Sims and Boyd report about the gun being found....
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0268b.htm

I continue to have interest in the accounts that there were guys crawling all around there who these Dallas detectives didn't seem to know.
"A Secret Service agent was there. We didn't know the agents name."
How did they know he was Secret Service?

"An officer from [the ATF] was [also] there."
Everybody but the Mounties was there?
 
On Sunday Nov 24 [Right after Oswald was killed] Det. R.M. Sims called in from home and asked if he "could be of any help".

 Yet poor Officer Croy. Nobody wanted him to help with anything

[Jake Maxwell]

Matt there are several copies of Tom Alyea's film of DPD Detective John Carl Day examining and carrying the Mannlicher carcano.   There's not a shred of doubt that the rifle that was CAREFULLY  hidden beneath the boxes of books (not tossed aside by a fleeing killer) was a Mannlicher Carcano.   They intended to frame the man that they thought was a communist ( Lee Oswald) and they knew there was a photo that showed him holding a Carcano.....  So they sure as hell wouldn't have planted a mauser in the place where he worked.

This is not denying that they did have a Mauser that they were planning to use in some fashion......because they very definitely DID hand Seymour Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and get him on record as identifying that Mauser....However they never recorded the serial number of that Mauser.   I confess that I don't know what Hoover's agents were trying to pull when thay had Weitzman examine that Mauser..... But You should not accept the tale that the rifle found in the TSBD was a mauser... because it was a Mannlicher Carcano.

And I wasn't chastising you..... I merely want you to benefit from what I've learned....

I'm fine with an MC instead of a Mauser being found carefully hidden in the TSBD among the boxes...
I'm not fine with them (DPD, FBI, who else?) framing Oswald...
I'm not fine with "Hoover's agents trying to pull" something with the Mauser...
What was this something they were trying to pull?
Maybe they threw the Mauser into the mix because they initially were not sure the story of Oswald as a lone nut was going to "stick."

[Matt Grantham]

Matt there are several copies of Tom Alyea's film of DPD Detective John Carl Day examining and carrying the Mannlicher carcano.   There's not a shred of doubt that the rifle that was CAREFULLY  hidden beneath the boxes of books (not tossed aside by a fleeing killer) was a Mannlicher Carcano.   They intended to frame the man that they thought was a communist ( Lee Oswald) and they knew there was a photo that showed him holding a Carcano.....  So they sure as hell wouldn't have planted a mauser in the place where he worked.

This is not denying that they did have a Mauser that they were planning to use in some fashion......because they very definitely DID hand Seymour Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and get him on record as identifying that Mauser....However they never recorded the serial number of that Mauser.   I confess that I don't know what Hoover's agents were trying to pull when thay had Weitzman examine that Mauser..... But You should not accept the tale that the rifle found in the TSBD was a mauser... because it was a Mannlicher Carcano.

And I wasn't chastising you..... I merely want you to benefit from what I've learned....

Very Good Walt Indeed I appreciate the efforts you have taken to explain things to me and have learned a lot I will agree the best explanation was they were mistaken and it was an MC all the time. But they seem to make such a circus out of everything one just wonders about some kind of deception at every turn

[Jim Brazell]

This is pedantic nonsense.  Here is a simple question.  Why would the conspirators link Oswald to an MC rifle but leave a Mauser at the TSBD?  If you don't believe any shots were fired from the TSBD, why leave two guns there?  If you think JFK was assassinated with the Mauser, why not link Oswald to that rifle instead of the MC rifle and save themselves the obvious risk and trouble of having to retrieve a second rifle from the authorities?   The Mauser issue is completely ridiculous.  Second only to the endless thread about the bag.  A misstatement was made because the MC rifle looks similar.  It is then repeated by others.  Eventually it is corrected.  End of story.

Wow, first I have never said that Oswald was the lone shooter on the 6th floor (not sure if he shot at all ) but was the designated patsy in this thing. There is also testimony of seeing someone at the WEST end of the 6th floor pacing back & forth (described as a Negro) but could have been a dark complected man (Loy Factor?)..there was no partition on the 6th floor so one would have seen the other. I believe that the gun being a MC or a Mauser or British (in 3 minutes below all are reported) is very much a secondary issue. It was reported that the Mauser was found on the "staircase of the 5th floor". I realize that even with a magnifying glass, identification could be a challenge but hopefully the crackerjack DPD could tell a staircase from a row of boxes. All it takes is anyone or any involvement of any kind (financier, radio etc,etc) to be a conspiracy.We know LHO received monthly checks of $200 from the CIA. There are bullets all over Dealey Plaza and not just 2. So, if there was one to the windshield, chrome, manhole cover, in the grass,etc that is ONE bullet too many.(And there was). The clip below starts out with 3 IDs of the gun...the first being a 6.5 MM 30/30, then a Mauser 7.65 and even a British.My question WHY THE CONFUSION OF THE GUN'S ID ? The best method would be to LOOK with your own eyes...a magnifying glass is a big bonus.
   

Later in this thread someone posts a written report that the gun was taken to the lab and examined way before 7 p.m.(Between 12:45 to 1:15 I  believe) In the clip below, Lt. Day himself (in addition to handling the gun in the trigger area-GREAT chain of custody & non contamination of evidence BTW) says he started examining for finger prints at 6:30-7 p.m. As he holds the gun aloft the clock behind him says 6:15 p.m.Says he FOUND NO EVIDENCE of Oswald "recent" palm print on the gun...only an older one. No worry though, 2 FBI/CIA guys went to the Funeral home and asked to be alone with Oswald. When they left Mr. Groody I believe said there were ink that had to be removed from the hands. 

   

[Walt Cakebread]

Wow, first I have never said that Oswald was the lone shooter on the 6th floor (not sure if he shot at all ) but was the designated patsy in this thing. There is also testimony of seeing someone at the WEST end of the 6th floor pacing back & forth (described as a Negro) but could have been a dark complected man (Loy Factor?)..there was no partition on the 6th floor so one would have seen the other. I believe that the gun being a MC or a Mauser or British (in 3 minutes below all are reported) is very much a secondary issue. It was reported that the Mauser was found on the "staircase of the 5th floor". I realize that even with a magnifying glass, identification could be a challenge but hopefully the crackerjack DPD could tell a staircase from a row of boxes. All it takes is anyone or any involvement of any kind (financier, radio etc,etc) to be a conspiracy.We know LHO received monthly checks of $200 from the CIA. There are bullets all over Dealey Plaza and not just 2. So, if there was one to the windshield, chrome, manhole cover, in the grass,etc that is ONE bullet too many.(And there was). The clip below starts out with 3 IDs of the gun...the first being a 6.5 MM 30/30, then a Mauser 7.65 and even a British.My question WHY THE CONFUSION OF THE GUN'S ID ? The best method would be to LOOK with your own eyes...a magnifying glass is a big bonus.
   

Later in this thread someone posts a written report that the gun was taken to the lab and examined way before 7 p.m.(Between 12:45 to 1:15 I  believe) In the clip below, Lt. Day himself (in addition to handling the gun in the trigger area-GREAT chain of custody & non contamination of evidence BTW) says he started examining for finger prints at 6:30-7 p.m. As he holds the gun aloft the clock behind him says 6:15 p.m.Says he FOUND NO EVIDENCE of Oswald "recent" palm print on the gun...only an older one. No worry though, 2 FBI/CIA guys went to the Funeral home and asked to be alone with Oswald. When they left Mr. Groody I believe said there were ink that had to be removed from the hands. 

   

Lt. Day himself (in addition to handling the gun in the trigger area-GREAT chain of custody & non contamination of evidence BTW) says he started examining for finger prints at 6:30-7 p.m.

Just for the record.... ( I'm not disputing that the rifle that was planted by hiding it carefully beneath boxes of books was a Mannlicher Carcano.  )  Lt Day was one of the biggest liars of the case.....

You can see with your own eyes ( Tom Alyea film) that Lt Day examined the rifle for finger prints in the TSBD at about 1:45 pm that afternoon.