What happened to the Mauser?

[Richard Smith]

This is pedantic nonsense.  Here is a simple question.  Why would the conspirators link Oswald to an MC rifle but leave a Mauser at the TSBD?  If you don't believe any shots were fired from the TSBD, why leave two guns there?  If you think JFK was assassinated with the Mauser, why not link Oswald to that rifle instead of the MC rifle and save themselves the obvious risk and trouble of having to retrieve a second rifle from the authorities?   The Mauser issue is completely ridiculous.  Second only to the endless thread about the bag.  A misstatement was made because the MC rifle looks similar.  It is then repeated by others.  Eventually it is corrected.  End of story.

[Matt Grantham]

The fundamental level of analysis is the authorities ability to investigate the scene and to record their findings

A second level would be to tie the evidence at the scene to a shooter and other physical evidence

A third level would be for the authorities involved to justify any inconsistencies in their investigation

At the bottom of the list is Richard Smith's belief that those who question anything are at the top of the list in terms of justifying their questions

[Richard Smith]

The fundamental level of analysis is the authorities ability to investigate the scene and to record their findings

A second level would be to tie the evidence at the scene to a shooter and other physical evidence

A third level would be for the authorities involve to justify any inconsistencies

At the bottom of the list is Richard Smith's belief that those who question anything are at the top of the list in terms of justifying their questions

Translate that into a coherent thought.  Again, the question is why would any second rifle (i.e. the Mauser) be left at the crime scene in a conspiracy scenario to frame Oswald?  Try to focus on the logical inconsistencies of doing so and then draw an inference as to whether it happened.  There are two possibilities in your fantasy conspiracy scenario:  1) Any rifle left at the TSBD was intended to link Oswald to the crime.  The MC does this, but a second rifle does the opposite.  It suggests someone else was involved.  Not good for your fantasy conspirators.  So that doesn't explain it.  2) The Mauser was used in the assassination.  If that's the case, why not just link Oswald to the Mauser instead of the MC rifle?  Use all the same forged evidence etc.  Obviously that wasn't done.  And think of the complexities of having to retrieve all the bullets and fragments fired from a Mauser to replace them with those from an MC rifle when all the conspirators had to do was link Oswald to whatever gun they decided to commit the assassination. 

[Matt Grantham]

Translate that into a coherent thought.

Ah yes the incoherency argument It is a beauty since it absolves you of all necessity to respond to anything Normally I would say you have all the right moves of a finely trained polemicist, but that would imply you stand and fight but that ain't you

[Jake Maxwell]

I shared this document on ACJ years ago during a long debate about the clip issue, and none of the LNers were aware of it. It is funny that they are using it now.

So let me get this straight  -- a supposed important document regarding the assassination of JFK and the DPD cannot afford LETTERHEAD paper. What?

Where are the "cc" and "bcc" on this document?

It would be good to see an example of how the DPD documented other evidence from other crime scenes...

[Walt Cakebread]

Description of Rifle  [WCR]
The bolt-action, clip-fed rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository, described more fully in appendix X, is inscribed with various markings, including "MADE ITALY," "CAL. 6.5," "1940" and the number C2766.126 (See Commission Exhibit Nos. 1303, 541(2) and 541 (3), pp. 82-83.)

These markings have been explained as follows: "MADE ITALY" refers to its origin; "CAL. 6.5" refers to the rifle's caliber; "1940" refers to the year of manufacture; and the number C2766 is the serial number. This rifle is the only one of its type bearing that serial number.
After review of standard reference works and the markings on the rifle, it was identified by the FBI as a 6.5-millimeter model 91/38 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

Experts from the FBI made an independent determination of the caliber by inserting a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5-millimeter cartridge into the weapon for fit, and by making a sulfur cast of the inside of the weapon's barrel and measuring the cast with a micrometer. From outward appearance, the weapon would appear to be a 7.35-millimeter rifle, but its mechanism had been re barreled with a 6.5-millimeter barrel.

Constable Deputy Sheriff Weitzman, who only saw the rifle at a glance and did not handle it, thought the weapon looked like a 7.65 Mauser bolt-action rifle. 131  (See chapter V, p. 235.)

You would think it would be just a simple mistake...
But instead we have 4 affidavits & 1 Report from 2 men and statements from a 3rd that call the gun a 7.65 Mauser
The documents go on to describe the strap and specific markings on the gun in detail; the last one is dated as late as 11/25. (Weitzman)
There is no signed or sworn affidavit by any police officer involved in the finding of the rifle listed it as a Mannlicher-Carcano?only as a 7.65 Mauser.

Date: November 22, 1963
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Mr. Decker:
I was assisting in the search of the 6th floor of the Dallas County Book Depository at Elm St. and Houston St. proceeding from the xxxxxx East side of the building. Officer Weitzman DPD and I were together as we approached the Northwest corner of the building xxxxxx I was the rifle partially hidden behind a row of books with two (2) other boxes of books against the rifle. The rifle appeared to be a 7.65 mm Mauser with a telescope sight on the rifle. Capt. Fritz was called to the scene and also someone from the ID xxxx pictures were taken and Capt Fritz picked up the rifle. I first saw the rifle at 1:22pm date.
E. L. Boone 240 DSO

11/22/63
Seymour Weitzman
Affidavit in Any Fact
At this time Captain Fritz arrived and ordered all of the sixth floor sealed off and searched. I was working with Deputy S. Boone of the Sheriff's Department and helping in the search. We were in the northwest corner of the sixth floor when Deputy Boone and myself spotted the rifle about the same time. The rifle was a 7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a 4/18 scope, a thick leather brownish-black sling on it.   Seymour Weitzman

Every affidavit notes the Mauser as a 7.65mm - where do they get this number? - shouldn't they be looking for 6.5mm?



Weitzman & Boone have similar descriptions...
Deputy Sheriff Boone's affidavit
" What  appeared to be a 7.65 Mauser with a telescopic site.
The rifle had what appeared to be a brownish, black stock and blue steel, metal parts."

Testimony Seymour Weitzman
Mr. BALL - You also said it was a gun metal color?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Gray or blue?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Blue metal.
Mr. BALL - And the rear portion of the bolt was visibly worn, is that worn?
Mr. WEITZMAN - That's right.
Mr. BALL - And the wooden portion of the rifle was what color?
Mr. WEITZMAN - It was a brown, or I would say not a mahogany brown but dark oak brown.
Mr. BALL - Rough wood, was it?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; rough wood.

Missing FBI REPORT and /or Transmission
Mr. McCLOY. There was never any doubt in your mind what the rifle was from the minute you saw it?
Mr. DAY. No, sir; It was stamped right on there, 6.5, and when en route to the office with Mr. Odum, the FBI agent who drove me in, he radioed it in, he radioed in what it was to the FBI over the air.   and where is this?

So how does the WC resolve this matter?
In the Speculations & Rumors (Chapter 12)
Commission finding.--Weitzman, the original source of the speculation that the rifle was a Mauser, and Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone found the weapon. Weitzman did not handle the rifle and did not examine it at close range. He had little more than a glimpse of it and thought it was a Mauser, a German bolt-type rifle similar in appearance to the Mannlicher-Carcano. Police laboratory technicians subsequently arrived and correctly identified the weapon as a 6.5 Italian rifle.  31

really...?
Here's what he told the FBI on Saturday...

Nov 23 1963
Weitzman FBI Report
Mr. Weitzman described the rifle was found as a 7.65 caliber Mauser action rifle, loads from a five shot clip is locked on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard.
The metal parts of this rifle were of a gun metal color, gray or blue and the rear portion of the bolt was visibly worn.
The wooden portions of this rifle were a dark brown in color and of rough wood apparently having been used or damaged to a considerable extent.
The rifle was equipped with a four power 18 scope of apparent Japanese manufacture. It's also equipped with a thick brown- black leather bandolier type sling

five shot clip
locked on the underside of trigger guard
dark brown in color and of rough wood
rear portion of the stock visibly worn
damaged to a considerable extent
four power 18 scope Japanese make
bandolier type strap

...and with a little more than a glimpse...he still can call it a 7.65mm

Every affidavit notes the Mauser as a 7.65mm - where do they get this number? - shouldn't they be looking for 6.5mm?

They weren't EXAMINING the rifle......They had spotted a small portion of the rifle BURIED BENEATH BOXES OF BOOKS and merely used the common way of identifying a rifle when they said it looked like a 7.65 mauser.  Just as someone might say they saw an old car that looked like a 37 Ford  when in reality the car was a 39 Plymouth.... Just a matter of incorrect identification.

It is a fact that the rifle was NOT in plain sight....It had been carefully placed on the floor beneath a pallet of boxes of books and then had more boxes of books stacked over the top of the crevasse .  It was NOT hastily tossed aside by anybody..... 

[Tim Nickerson]

Handwritten dates can be added later
especially if backtracking

Day testified that it was typed up just after he brought the rifle back to his office from the TSBD.

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'"

[Tim Nickerson]

That's a very short statement....wonder why the date and 1940 Made in Italy needed to be written in ? In addition, Day looks to be in a 2nd colored pen. That's a lot of work for a short description.The DPD, in particular Curry, were NOT HAPPY with the FBI. I can post a film if necessary where Curry is telling newsman in the hall that he understands the FBI knew info and didn't share it with DPD. Also that in the past the FBI had always worked with them. He is CLEARLY Po'd with the FBI for about 2 mins.or so. There is a news clip describing 3 gun descriptions...a British gun and the 3 shells as being 303, a MC and a 7.65 Mauser. Lt. Day with a magnifying glass and Fritz pointing out writing on the gun should have had an almost immediate ID.

Day took the gun to the lab about 7:30 that evening for evidence search. (Don't know what he was doing for over 6 hours between the 6th floor finding and that evening). Think around 6:30 he had the gun hoisted for media. There is film/pictures of him holding the gun by the trigger handle (unreal).I think the FBI took over all the evidence/the case (LBJ where he had control) and hence Curry's frustration with the FBI.     

Day did not take the rifle back to the lab about 7:30 that evening. He took it back to the lab at about 2 pm that afternoon. He left the rifle at the lab locked up in a box and returned to the TSBD at about 3pm.