The book “The Suspect” by Kent Alexander and Kevin Salween, details a great many more details of the story than does the movie “Richard Jewell.” Including details of the real terrorist and three other bombings he was responsible for. There are quite a few similarities between him and LHO and I do recommend this book for those who might be interested.
One interesting similarity that jumped out at me when I read it was this one:
Rudolph watched as prosecutors outlined the “factual basis,” the evidence they would have presented at trial. At the conclusion, U.S. District Judge Lynwood Smith asked the defendant if the government had proved its case in the bombing of a Birmingham women’s clinic. “Just barely, your honor,” Rudolph replied. “But let me just cut to the chase,” the judge said. “Did you plant the bomb that exploded at the New Woman All Women clinic?” “I certainly did, your honor.” Observers couldn’t miss his smirk. Soon after, Judge Smith declared, “The defendant is now adjudged guilty.”
“Did you plant the bomb that exploded at the New Woman All Women clinic?” “I certainly did, your honor.” Observers couldn’t miss his smirk.
Similarity?? .... Mr Oswald, did you shoot the President ? " No Sir, Nobody has said that to me yet.... The first I heard that was when a a reporter, Gulp, ( choking back emotion at learning that JFK had been killed) in the hall asked me that question"
The similarity is the smirk (I bolded that sentence).
However, if LHO had been in a position to plea bargain his way out of the electric chair (like the terrorist did), I am reasonably sure he would have pled guilty. And I am almost positive that he would have had a smirk on his face...
Charlie,.... I've seen the video of Lee at the mid-night "press conference" that was held to give Jack Ruby a chance to shoot Lee....and I've not derected a "smirk". I have seen deep grief and choked back tears by Lee at that conference... The cops saw it also, and shut down the conference immediately. After all how would it have looked for the police if Lee burst into tears after he learned from the reporter that President Kennedy had been killed.
The words of Bill Mercer from “When the News Went Live”:
As police concluded the “press conference” and Oswald started to turn, I stood up with the mike in my hand. When he was again asked, “Did you kill the president?” Oswald looked toward me and said, “No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.” He pronounced it “axed.” I looked into his face and said, “You have been charged.” Oswald looked a little blank and moved his head backward in a natural reflective response. And then he was taken back to his cell on the fifth floor.
As police concluded the “press conference” and Oswald started to turn, I stood up with the mike in my hand. When he was again asked, “Did you kill the president?” Oswald looked toward me and said, “No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.” He pronounced it “axed.” I looked into his face and said, “You have been charged.” Oswald looked a little blank and moved his head backward in a natural reflective response. And then he was taken back to his cell on the fifth floor.
Charlie, I believe that the reporter has twisted the information a tad.... The "conference" was NOT being concluded....It had just started.
I believe that this is an accurate quote of what Lee said....
“No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.”
However the written words do not accurately convey the truth... Lee's facial expression added to the meaning of his words.
You can hear him choke back emotion when he said the word "hall"..... “No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the... hall.. asked me that question.”
I believe that what Lee said was true.... He wasn't aware until that moment that President Kennedy had been killed., and it came as a shock to him.
The reporter told Lee that he had been charged.... And Lee's disdainful glare at the reporter spoke volumes.... The facial expression and body language clearly told the reporter that he was an idiot and didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
Bill Mercer was in front of the room kneeling with the microphone so that LHO’s responses could be heard by the broadcast audience. He was very close and looking at LHO’s face. I choose to believe his interpretation of LHO’s reaction. You can continue to believe your version as far as I am concerned. But it makes no sense to me.
Bill Mercer was in front of the room kneeling with the microphone so that LHO’s responses could be heard by the broadcast audience. He was very close and looking at LHO’s face. I choose to believe his interpretation of LHO’s reaction. You can continue to believe your version as far as I am concerned. But it makes no sense to me.
I choose to believe his interpretation of LHO’s reaction.
Yes, here is the man that these powerful conspirators were so afraid would expose their conspiracy that they had him killed.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/30/14/3f301498b50fd75fd86e64c9edee2e5e.jpg)
Dozens of reporters, live cameras. This is how they "silenced" him. But this was done to give Ruby a chance to shoot him. So why didn't Ruby do it? Never mind.
They gave Oswald numerous opportunities to expose their conspiracy; but he never did. He talked to his family, to the head of the Dallas Bar, to numerous reporters. But not a word from him about this conspiracy.
To normal people that's evidence that there wasn't one. To conspiracy thinkers it's evidence that there was.
Yes, here is the man that these powerful conspirators were so afraid would expose their conspiracy that they had him killed.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/30/14/3f301498b50fd75fd86e64c9edee2e5e.jpg)
Dozens of reporters, live cameras. This is how they "silenced" him. But this was done to give Ruby a chance to shoot him. So why didn't Ruby do it? Never mind.
They gave Oswald numerous opportunities to expose their conspiracy; but he never did. He talked to his family, to the head of the Dallas Bar, to numerous reporters. But not a word from him about this conspiracy.
To normal people that's evidence that there wasn't one. To conspiracy thinkers it's evidence that there was.
A trained espionage agent would never reveal his true goal or motive, and blow his cover. Lee was still playing the role he had been given.....He thought that he would be accused of shooting AT AT JFK..... And be allowed to escape to Cuba as a fugitive. At the time of the mid-night "press conference" he didn't know that JFK had been killed. ....and he said as much. " Mr Oswald did you kill the president?".... “No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.”
NOTICE.... "NOBODY HAS SAID THAT TO ME YET" IOW.... Nobody had told him that JFK had been killed and .... the first thing I heard about it was when the reporters in the hall asked me that same question....
You may argue and disagree but I believe that Lee nearly lost his composure and he nearly started crying when he said the word "hall".....
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/30/14/3f301498b50fd75fd86e64c9edee2e5e.jpg) (https://catalog.archives.gov/OpaAPI/media/305139/content/arcmedia/media/images/33/34/33-3304a.gif)
Left Photo: Is that a hole in the elbow of Oswald's right sleeve?
Well, I believe I might be seeing the upper end of the sewn shirt seam that the cuff button closes at the wrist. The seam end is away from the "hole". So either the officer's hand is exhibiting five fingers (the thumb is hidden) or there's an open area ("hole") beneath his four fingers.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/30/14/3f301498b50fd75fd86e64c9edee2e5e.jpg) (https://catalog.archives.gov/OpaAPI/media/305139/content/arcmedia/media/images/33/34/33-3304a.gif)
Left Photo: Is that a hole in the elbow of Oswald's right sleeve?
Well, I believe I might be seeing the upper end of the sewn shirt seam that the cuff button closes at the wrist. The seam end is away from the "hole". So either the officer's hand is exhibiting five fingers (the thumb is hidden) or there's an open area ("hole") beneath his four fingers.
This thread is a companion to the “An Innocent Man” thread that I started earlier today. It is related to the same crime that Richard Jewell was charged with. The perpetrator of the crime wrote this:
In the summer of 1996, the world converged upon Atlanta for the Olympic Games. Under the protection and auspices of the regime in Washington millions of people came to celebrate the ideals of global socialism. Multinational corporations spent billions of dollars, and Washington organized an army of security to protect these best of all games. Even though the conception and the purpose of the so-called Olympic movement is to promote the values of global socialism as perfectly expressed in the song "Imagine" by John Lennon, which was the theme of the 1996 Games—even though the purpose of the Olympics is to promote these ideals, the purpose of the attack on July 27 was to confound, anger and embarrass the Washington government in the eyes of the world for its abominable sanctioning of abortion on demand. The plan was to force the cancellation of the games, or at least create a state of insecurity to empty the streets around the venues and thereby eat into the vast amounts of money invested.
Here is a link to a Wikipedia article that the above quote is from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph
There are some comparisons that can be made between him and LHO. I will start with:
They both are considered to be militant fanatics (zealots) with political causes.
Feel free to add your own comparisons.
Some of the items in the article are just plain scary. For instance, his brother purposely cutting off his own hand in order to “make a statement.”
The same MO can be attributed to every single member of the False Defector Program at the time. They were singleton agents disavowed by their government and groomed to be a defector. This was the case for Thomas Arthur Vallee (see my sig photo) in Chicago only 20 days earlier. He was Plan A of the Big Event, Oswald was Plan B.
November 1, 1963: In Chicago, the Secret Service detains and questions two members of a four-man sniper team suspected of planning to assassinate President Kennedy during his visit to Chicago the following day. The other two snipers escape. Thomas Arthur Vallee, a mentally damaged ex-Marine in a building over Kennedy’s motorcade route, is monitored by the Chicago police.
November 2, 1963: South Vietnam President Diem is assassinated by an Army coup and White House press secretary Pierre Salinger announces President Kennedy’s trip to Chicago has been cancelled. While the two suspected snipers are questioned at Chicago Secret Service headquarters, potential assassin scapegoat Thomas Arthur Vallee is arrested. The other two alleged snipers remain at large in Chicago. Only Vallee is ever identified publicly.
November 22, 1963: Plan B succeeds.
The same MO???!
LHO and the Centennial Olympic Park bomber were lone nuts.
LOL. Do you think if you keep saying it enough it becomes true? Every single member of the False Defector program was a lone nut, by design. They obviously knew what they were doing since you LNers continue to shill for them 1/2 a century later.
If LHO was a lone nut assassin then this case would have been solved by the HSCA decades ago. LHO may have been up to his eyeballs in the Big Event, but he was not a lone nut, he was a patsy. It's not too soon to get over it.
The case was solved on 11/22/63. After 56-years there is no credible evidence of a conspiracy. Your conjecture and innuendo is just that.
On the contrary. After 56 years there is no credible evidence that the case has been solved.
LOL. Do you think if you keep saying it enough it becomes true? Every single member of the False Defector program was a lone nut, by design. They obviously knew what they were doing since you LNers continue to shill for them 1/2 a century later.
If LHO was a lone nut assassin then this case would have been solved by the HSCA decades ago. LHO may have been up to his eyeballs in the Big Event, but he was not a lone nut, he was a patsy. It's not too soon to get over it.
As police concluded the “press conference” and Oswald started to turn, I stood up with the mike in my hand. When he was again asked, “Did you kill the president?” Oswald looked toward me and said, “No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.” He pronounced it “axed.” I looked into his face and said, “You have been charged.” Oswald looked a little blank and moved his head backward in a natural reflective response. And then he was taken back to his cell on the fifth floor.
Charlie, I believe that the reporter has twisted the information a tad.... The "conference" was NOT being concluded....It had just started.
I believe that this is an accurate quote of what Lee said....
“No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.”
However the written words do not accurately convey the truth... Lee's facial expression added to the meaning of his words.
You can hear him choke back emotion when he said the word "hall"..... “No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the... hall.. asked me that question.”
I believe that what Lee said was true.... He wasn't aware until that moment that President Kennedy had been killed., and it came as a shock to him.
The reporter told Lee that he had been charged.... And Lee's disdainful glare at the reporter spoke volumes.... The facial expression and body language clearly told the reporter that he was an idiot and didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
LHO may have been up to his eyeballs in the Big Event, but he was not a lone nut, he was a patsy.
Explain please..... What do you mean when you say.... " LHO may have been up to his eyeballs in the Big Event," ... Do you actually believe that Lee was involved in the plot to murder JFK? ie; He knew that JFK was going to be murdered and willing went along with the plot?
I mean that Oswald was up to his eyeballs (followed orders) as a patsy, either knowingly or not. Pretty simple. Also, the patsy is never the shooter because the murder weapon is always a piece of spombleprofglidnoctobuns planted ahead of time. Oswald likely knew he was the designated patsy and hoped the conspirators would allow him to escape to Cuba/Russia/Mexico. Instead the DPD double-crossed him and served him up on a silver platter to Ruby. The DPD didn't kill Oswald in the theater so they could claim plausible deniability because their hands were already filthy. Killing Oswald went beyond their mandate.
I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.”
Oswald likely knew he was the designated patsy and hoped the conspirators would allow him to escape to Cuba/Russia/Mexico.
This would indicate that Lee knew that JFK was going to be ambushed and murdered.... I seriously doubt that Lee would have participated if he knew that JFK was going to be murdered. IN fact He had heard rumors that there was a plot afoot and he tried to foil the plot by notifying his handler who he thought was a legitimate FBI Agent .(Warren De Brueys) He was assured that the FBI knew of the plot and had everything under control, so he could go ahead with the hoax attempt to shoot JFK and they would cover him so he could flee to Cuba.
LNers are "crazy"? Compared to what?
- CE 133-A was taken with Lee's Minox spy camera, which had a superior lens
- CE 399 smashed through bones
- Bullet entered at T1 and exited at C7
- The two laser challenge
- Autopsy haircut
- Oswald was extracted from the fake defector program to be the patsy
LNers are "crazy"? Compared to what?
- CE 133-A was taken with Lee's Minox spy camera, which had a superior lens
- CE 399 smashed through bones
- Bullet entered at T1 and exited at C7
- The two laser challenge
- Autopsy haircut
- Oswald was extracted from the fake defector program to be the patsy
When are you LNers going to learn you can't mock your way out of this one. You need to use some logic, critical thinking and forensics to support your position, which aren't your strong points.
(https://i.gifer.com/23x4.gif)
LNers are "crazy"? Compared to what?
- CE 133-A was taken with Lee's Minox spy camera, which had a superior lens
- CE 399 smashed through bones
- Bullet entered at T1 and exited at C7
- The two laser challenge
- Autopsy haircut
- Oswald was extracted from the fake defector program to be the patsy
It's amazing how oblivious you LNers are when it comes to evaluating evidence. You compile a list that you think paints me as a crazy CTer without contesting a single item.When are you LNers going to learn you can't mock your way out of this one. You need to use some logic, critical thinking and forensics to support your position, which aren't your strong points. Good luck with the 2 laser challenge. Post your results and make me eat crow instead of chicken for a change.
- If CE 133-A was taken with the same lens as B,C,D,E,F then why does the spherical aberration match between B,C,D,E,F but not the money shot A? Rhetorical question because you just don't know.
- Didn't CE 399 cause 7 wounds and smash thru Connally's rib and wrist bones?
- Ok then, which vertebrae did CE 399 enter JFK's back? The X-ray and the autopsy photos indicated T1. What vertebrae is just below JFK's Adam's apple for the alleged exit wound? Ans: C6, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say it exited at C7. What say you?
- So how did that 2 laser challenge work out for you, or are you too scared to even try it? Or maybe you still don't understand the concept. Better not try it or you might find out the truth and realize you've wasted all these years as a crazy LNer.
- I was being facetious re the Autopsy Haircut because you expect us to believe there was no difference between the hair length in the 2 autopsy photos. There was also the missing "fist-sized" hole in the occipital region of JFK's head. Instead you mock anyone for noticing the obvious differences. Maybe there is a simple explanation for it, but you certainly didn't provide any.
- Of course you don't think Oswald was a patsy because you are a crazy LNer.
Thanks, John. As well, the RIT's focus test photo dispels Trojan's (and Iacoletti's since he sees nothing wrong with it) bizarre "spherical aberration" claim because anyone can see text is quite sharp in the focal plane. That's about the same focal plane where Oswald stood in 133-A. Oswald was further back (relative to the camera) in 133-B and 133-C, and so he is not as sharply-defined as in 133-A. Also, Oswald's body being closer to the camera in 133-A means there is more resolution available to define his image.
This must be the third or fourth topic where that claim has been contested.
It may have "smashed" through the fifth rib, one of the thinnest bones in the body. Or pressure from its passage may have broken the rib. It certainly didn't travel through the more substantial radius bone, much less "smashed" through it. The bullet, slowed down and probably no longer nose-on, glanced off the radius, leaving the bone fractured but with all the bone present. The radius was restored and healed with a cast.
Your use of the term "smashed through bones" is to imply CE 399 should be more mutilated than it is.
Autopsy photos show the bullet entered about C7 and exited at about T1, somewhat above the sternum.
I just tried it with a standing 3D model from "Render People". They use 250 cameras to construct a model from a living human. Bullet enters C7/T1 level, misses the spinal column and exits as in the autopsy photo. If model was sitting and his neck area slouched forward, the missile track would enter a bit higher.
Explanations for those things have been provided here for years. Maybe we didn't cover something specific to your "research."
You must be "chicken". You have yet to post your own results.
I've always said that CE 133A ( and the De Morenschildt print) is the ONLY authentic photo.... Lee had Marina take CE 133A, he developed and enhanced the photo and made several copies of it. ......
Thanks, John. As well, the RIT's focus test photo dispels Trojan's (and Iacoletti's since he sees nothing wrong with it) bizarre "spherical aberration" claim because anyone can see text is quite sharp in the focal plane.
m
The edge markings and scratches on Oswald's camera matched Oswald's family photo
“Oswald’s camera”. LOL.
Iacoletti,
Should he have said "his brother's camera," or "the evil, evil, evil CIA's camera"?
Need a verified sales receipt, in triplicate?
A DNA test?
A 30-point fingerprint match on all ten fingers?
Could you post "D", "E" & "F"? I want to check the "spherical aberration match".
Well, HSCA radiologist consultants think likewise. Air in tissue does affect opacity; air in the lungs seem to be doing a "disappearing number" on the clavicle bones. Or were parts of them shot away, too?
Tests by actual experts show otherwise. For example, there's the 1970s/80s Lattimer tests, the 2008 Discovery show "JFK: Inside the Target Car" ( Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dMzdvYyXNA)) and the 2013 PBS show "Cold Case JFK" ( Link (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/cold-case-jfk/). These all show a Carcano bullet passing through bodies would resist deformity depending on its speed being reduced and when tumbling occurs.
You can nitpick some trivialities within those things, but a test from the critical community using an authentic weapon and ammunition, and under accurate conditions would go a lot further. Can't say I'm aware of any such tests.
You can't prove it wasn't found on Connally's stretcher. Why would you think there would be organic material on CE 399; bullets aren't absorbent?
Tests by actual experts show otherwise. For example, there's the 1970s/80s Lattimer tests,
You can't prove it wasn't found on Connally's stretcher.
Why would you think there would be organic material on CE 399; bullets aren't absorbent?
Any evidence at all would be nice, before just labeling it “Oswald’s camera”.
Iacoletti,
Must everything be pointed out to you over and over again in great detail regarding the assassination?
You know, so you can remove it from its context and attempt to cast doubt on its evidentiary value?
How many people do you figure were "in" on the assassination and the "coverup," anyway?
Couple thousand?
Millions?
Do you believe we live in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State"?
LOL
-- MWT :D
Is this your trollish way of saying that you have no evidence that it was Oswald’s camera?
Hung up on credentials? How about the Haags?
I didn't say that.
According to experts, the lack of blood and tissue on a bullet wouldn't by itself exclude it from having passed through a human body.
Iacoletti,
What kind of evidence would suffice for you?
A dated-and-signed sales receipt in triplicate with Oswald's saliva and 30-point fingerprints on all three copies?
Exact dates and times other photos were taken with that camera by anyone?
A photo or film showing that camera (with serial number visible, of course) in the possession of Oswald (verified by mastoid scar, etc, etc, etc)?
Not nearly good enough for you, John "The Contrarian CTer" Iacoletti?
LOL
-- MWT :D
In a second-floor OR, about 1 pm, the Governor was shifted from his stretcher onto an operating table. The used stretcher was then left next to the elevator.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TBmXVEhfd6I/AAAAAAAAEN4/1ZBIGlpXcfs/s400/CE399.jpg)
The more intact a jacketed bullet, the less likelihood it'll retain material. There is also the cavitation cavity that pushes soft tissue away from the missile as it passes through.
Is there a report that said there was never any material on CE 399?
Are you absolving the evil, evil, evil DPD's role in creating the BYPs? If Marina was telling the truth about taking 1 BYP and burning another, then someone else must have taken them. Either the DPD took them (like their inexplicable re-enactments and cutouts) or one of Oswald's handlers did (Paine or DeMohrenschildt?).
The DPD are up to their eyeballs re the BYPs. They were sheep-dipping Oswald but all the photos they took with the Imperial Reflex could not resolve the commie lit headline or capture Oswald's face in focus. If one more of you amateurs tries to talk about optics and focal planes, etc. then I'm going to call you on it. Know what you are talking about before you offer up lame excuses why CE 133A looks different than the rest. So why is it so important to you LNers that ALL the photos were snapped with the IR? Why would that make Oswald a lone nut? Why couldn't Marina have taken the money shot with another camera? Is it because you want her "revised" testimony to be true that she alone took all the photos? As soon as you establish that she was lying, then all bets are off. BAAAA!
My analysis doesn't prove CE 133A was taken with another camera since I can't experiment with the IR to know for sure. The HSCA tested the IR and found the imagery distorted significantly outside of the sweet spot of the lens and concluded this may have accounted for the differences between 133 A & C. But they never did a formal study comparing the over all lens distortion between A & C. If you knew anything about photogrammetry you would know that distortion is like a photo's watermark. Any differences cast doubt that the photos were shot with the same lens. Photogrammetry uses camera/lens parameters to calculate, identify and correct for optical distortion created by an imperfect lens. Spherical aberration is the #1 culprit for distorting images at the periphery of the lens. Cheap and wide angle lenses tend to have a smaller "sweet spot" where the distortion is minimal.
We know that Roscoe White didn't use an enlarger lens to correct for distortion because the negative for CE 133A exists, and it appears to match the print's distortion. And what about the unregistered photo of CE 133C found in the possession of White's widow? And where are all the damn negatives? Only a diehard LNer thinks that the DPD weren't sheep-dipping Oswald to be the patsy with the BYPs. CE 133A was the money shot, by design and Marina likely had nothing to do with it. And if that was the case then the BYPs were all part of sheep-dipping the patsy.
ps. I'm not sure what point Mytton was trying to make up thread but I'm sure it was more obfuscation.
What kind of evidence would suffice for you?
Hung up on credentials? How about the Haags?
I didn't say that.
According to experts, the lack of blood and tissue on a bullet wouldn't by itself exclude it from having passed through a human body.
We know that Roscoe White didn't use an enlarger lens to correct for distortion because the negative for CE 133A exists, and it appears to match the print's distortion.
I don't define it that way. And I've asked CTs repeatedly on this board to provide comparable experts.
No I didn't. And it was a reasonable response to a statement that the bullet wasn't found on Connally's stretcher, as if it was a settled matter.
As far as I'm concerned, the bullet was found on Connally's stretcher. The Italians hadn't landed in Dallas that day, so what else would account for a Carcano bullet being there other than it had been fired at the limousine during the shooting?
The case was solved on 11/22/63.
Rudolph spent five years on the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list until he was caught in 2003.So...it took the FBI 5 yrs to catch Rudolph but then it only took the Keystone Cops 80 minutes to grab Oswald [40 yrs earlier]:-\
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/22/1411366216880/fe54ecfe-24aa-4ec4-8519-4e4383f16b8b-1024x768.jpeg?width=300&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=a93bf65c3ddf3656fa121f9353eff4a2)<<< Oswald's rifle rwaaaak
So...it took the FBI 5 yrs to catch Rudolph but then it only took the Keystone Cops 80 minutes to grab Oswald [40 yrs earlier]:-\
Not what Lattimer, "Target Car" and the Haags claimed to be doing anyway. They were duplicating a Carcano bullet passing though replicas of humans to see if slowing and tumbling of the bullet would result in a condition similar to CE 399. That's what rational people do in a criminal case with a mystery; they assume nothing until they've conducted experiments and tests.
Can you prove he wasn't wrong in that regard?
Feel free to present an alternative scenario that's more rational.
Many things in a crime case can't be proven conclusively or to an absolute.
There's no time travel yet, and most events weren't captured on film. Human memory is fallible.
Reasonable people use common sense to assess the totality of the evidence.
So...it took the FBI 5 yrs to catch Rudolph but then it only took the Keystone Cops 80 minutes to grab Oswald [40 yrs earlier]:-\
It is amazing to me that LHO even managed to escape the TSBD immediately after the shooting. And I cannot help but believe that he was very surprised also. It appears to me that LHO didn't really expect to get away from the TSBD and didn't have much time to plan his escape anyway. The Centennial Olympic Park bomber planned everything well ahead of time. He actually had built a total of 5 bombs and planned to detonate them on consecutive nights. But decided against that plan after the first one; and detonated the other four bombs in a wooded area to the east of Atlanta. He might not have ever been caught if he had quit at that point. But his agenda was to keep going and he bombed three more locations (unrelated to the Olympics) before someone saw him running away from the last one and wrote down his tag number when he got into his vehicle. His well laid plans to hide out in the wilderness was foiled by bears (who dug up his buried food stashes) and ate them. And he consequently lost over 50-pounds surviving on bugs and acorns before getting some help from an acquaintance. In the end, a rookie cop in a small town apprehended him (not the FBI).
he consequently lost over 50-pounds
Wow!... He could have become wealthy ... There are so many obese women who would have paid him dearly to learn how they could lose 50 pounds.
He is still alive and imprisoned without the possibility of ever getting out in his lifetime. Maybe you could contact him and offer to be his business agent in this brilliant idea of yours.
Not what Lattimer, "Target Car" and the Haags claimed to be doing anyway. They were duplicating a Carcano bullet passing though replicas of humans to see if slowing and tumbling of the bullet would result in a condition similar to CE 399. That's what rational people do in a criminal case with a mystery; they assume nothing until they've conducted experiments and tests.
Can you prove he wasn't wrong in that regard?
Feel free to present an alternative scenario that's more rational.
Many things in a crime case can't be proven conclusively or to an absolute. There's no time travel yet, and most events weren't captured on film. Human memory is fallible.
Reasonable people use common sense to assess the totality of the evidence.
Still waiting for you to address why the magic bullet caused so much damage and turned out pristine and the head shot bullet exploded and disintegrated in JFK's head. Weren't they both full metal jacketed bullets that don't typically explode? This should be good. ;D
Still waiting for you to address why the magic bullet caused so much damage and turned out pristine and the head shot bullet exploded and disintegrated in JFK's head. Weren't they both full metal jacketed bullets that don't typically explode? This should be good. ;D
I doubt that the bullet that exploded JFK's skull was a FMJ. I'd bet that the bullet was mercury encased in dry ice..... Because they found no trace of the bullet in the brain cavity.
Still waiting for you to address why the magic bullet caused so much damage and turned out pristine and the head shot bullet exploded and disintegrated in JFK's head. Weren't they both full metal jacketed bullets that don't typically explode? This should be good. ;D
As to how that rounded-point bullet could have done so much damage, watch PBS Nova's "Cold Case JFK". You can watch all of the separate episodes on YouTube.
As is usually the case with such things, they start with the assumption that CE399 hit both Kennedy and Connally and then set about to fashion a scenario in which that could be possible (if you make the right set of assumptions that will make it work).
Then why did metal particles show up in the Xrays?
Did the evil, evil, evil CIA or FBI put them there?
In the film, I mean?
-- MWT ;)
Jack,
I'm surprised that you're glibly asserting that the so-called Magic Bullet was "pristine" when everyone knows that it wasn't.
As to how that rounded-point bullet could have done so much damage, watch PBS Nova's "Cold Case JFK". You can watch all of the separate episodes on YouTube.
It shows the same kind of very-stable-in-flight bullet being fired from the same kind of rifle and penetrating three feet of pine wood. The fact that that kind of bullet has a strong tendency to "yaw" upward and start tumbling upon exiting something helps to explain how it injured Connally the way that it did and yet lose only a little of its mass, squeezed out of its slightly flattened base during a glancing (but devestating) blow to his wrist.
-- MWT ;)
Wouldn't the pathologists have noticed mercury moving in the brain, pooling in the skull and dripping?
squeezed out of its slightly flattened base
HUH?? Take a 1/4 inch diameter piece of lead ( like a fishing weight ) and try to squeeze it through a smaller diameter hole... Lead doesn't flow like toothpaste from a tube....
Walter,
You do realize, don't you, that the bullet had lost a small amount of mass?
How do you think that mass got out of the bullet?
-- MWT ;)
How do you know how much mass the bullet lost?.... Did you weigh and measure it before it was fired?
Regardless, you do know that same-caliber ammunition from any single manufacturer weighs almost exactly the same from bullet to bullet, don't you?
Are you just being uber-contrarian, like John "You Have No Proof!" Iacoletti?
Walter,
Me? No, I was probably busy helping the evil, evil, evil CIA and FBI do something else that day.
Regardless, you do know that same-caliber ammunition from any single manufacturer weighs almost exactly the same from bullet to bullet, don't you?
Are you aware that the bullet was flattened somewhat on one side near the base, and that the lead was pooched out a bit at the end?
Are you uncomfortable with the statement that, depending on its weight when it was fired, the bullet had lost between 2 and 3 grains of mass?
If so, why?
Are you just being uber-contrarian, like John "You Have No Proof!" Iacoletti?
Pity that.
-- MWT ;)
You mean like within 2 or 3 grains of each other?
you do know that same-caliber ammunition from any single manufacturer weighs almost exactly the same from bullet to bullet, don't you?
Yes, Manufacturing specifications.... Which allows for the bullet to weigh a couple of grains more or less than the specification of 160 grains....
So, how do you know the weight of the bullet before it was fired?
CT Pulp Fiction Central starts with the assumption that CE399 couldn't have possibly traversed both victims, and then sets about to construct a scenario in which other elements were needed; complete with no-name shooters and no-name conspirators.
Walter,
How do you know it didn't lose at least 2 grains of mass?
Because Marine Marksman Oswald was using a "crummy" high-powered rifle, and ... and ... and ... occasionally got "Maggie's Drawers" at 500 yards, and ... and ... and ... "WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE EVIL, EVIL, EVIL, CIA HAD 23 SHOOTERS IN DEALEY PLAZA / THE TSBD THAT DAY!" ?
LOL
Do you really believe CE 399 is "pristine"?
Why would the evil bastards plant a pristine bullet on Connally's stretcher?
D'oh!
-- MWT ;)
Yes! That must be it! And the very stable bullet that, before it was deviously switched for CE 399, had entered Kennedy's upper back at about 2100 feet per second, damaged his rib, exited his throat, entered Connally's back, exited his chest, broke his wrist, and ended up shallowly embedded in his thigh MUST have lost oodles and gobs of lead and been mutilated like a Mo-Fo, right, "Mr. Prove It"?
Walter,
How do you know it didn't lose at least 2 grains of mass?
CT Pulp Fiction Central starts with the assumption that CE399 couldn't have possibly traversed both victims,
I don’t know who that is.
But “possible in some contrived scenario” does not equal “that’s what happened”.
Predictable.
So now we’re back to Walt’s original question. How do you know that CE 399 “lost 2 to 3 grains of lead”?
Or did you just make it up?
CE399 was not in pristine condition. It was compressed and misshapen.If you fired the same bullet...with the same gun... into the air...and it fell to earth...into a soft marsh... it would most likely look very much like CE 399.
And Oswald was a good enough shot to carry out the shootings.How could you possibly know that? There was a church shooting here in Texas this past weekend that completely put down the crack shot idea [leaving a former lawman dead]
If you fired the same bullet...with the same gun... into the air...and it fell to earth...into a soft marsh... it would most likely look very much like CE 399.
OMG
Iacoletti,
Do you believe the bad guys would have planted a nearly pristine bullet in the hospital, and try to make us believe it had done all that damage to JFK, or, if you prefer, to just JFK or to just Connally?
Wouldn't it have made more sense for them (gasp ... Jack Ruby?) to put a damaged, lighter-than-original bullet there?
Do you believe CE 399 is nearly pristine? Do you believe it didn't lose any lead?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
Timing wise he had 5.4 seconds from the throat shot to the head shot. So that particular time slot for those two shots starts with the throat shot..
then Oswald has 5.4 seconds to reload, take careful aim and make a direct hit to JFK's head.
:'(
WOW
Does your Graves Gallop of inane leading questions ever work for you?
GFY
OMG
Iacoletti,
Since you can't answer them, what does it matter if they're "leading" or not?
You still haven’t answered the question of when you stopped beating your wife.
That would imply that you know exactly when the throat shot was fired.
That would imply that you know Oswald fired a rifle.
Regarding the throat shot, it's well known that that shot was between frame 210-240 and the head shot was at frame 313. My opinon is that Connally is reacting in frame 222 of the Zabruder film. However I think, as others do that JFK was hit in frame 215 and the head shot was at frame 313. The 8mm camera used by Zabruder takes 18 frames per sec, so the time between the throat shot and the head shot is 5.4 seconds. Obviously could be a few tenths of a second each way. But in any case that gives the shooter at least 5 seconds to fire the head shot. You obviously know this so the only issue is who was the shooter. I think it was Oswald and that he acted alone.
Regarding the throat shot, it's well known that that shot was between frame 210-240 and the head shot was at frame 313.
But in any case that gives the shooter at least 5 seconds to fire the head shot.