JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on May 17, 2020, 04:44:15 AM
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One of the most tragic things to arise out of the JFK assassination, imho, was Richard Helms' having to take in Yuri Nosenko as a defector (in early January, 1964) because Nosenko claimed to have handled Oswald's KGB file four times both before and after the assassination (!!!), ... even though Helms already strongly (and correctly) suspected that Nosenko was fake.
Why was this so tragic?
Because, with the help of some already-in-place KGB triple-agents like Aleksey Kulak and Dimitri Polyakov, and some gullible, wishful-thinking CIA officers (or moles?) like Leonard McCoy and John L. Hart, Nosenko was able to deflect attention away from several traitors like "Popov's Mole" (Edward Ellis Smith and probably someone the the Soviet Division HE helped KGB to recruit), the never-uncovered Army cipher clerk "Jack" and others both here and in our allies' countries, to permanently destroy CIA's counterintelligence efforts against the USSR, to demonize true-defector Anatoliy Golitsyn and James Angleton (the latter of whom was fired by possible mole William Colby in 1974), and worst of all, to make the CIA virtually a zombified appendage of the KGB.
Not only was Nosenko "cleared" by CIA's useful idiots (or worse) in 1968, but it hired him as a consultant and as a lecturer on counterintelligence to its new recruits (LOL) in 1969.
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This 2007 book was written by the man who was on the fast track to becoming Director of CIA until Nosenko came along.
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3/mode/2up
Fwiw, I suspect that the CIA officer who "helped" him interview Nosenko five times in Geneva in 1962, George Kisevalter, was a mole. The author, diplomatic "Pete" Bagley, kinda intimates as much, but it's glaringly obvious after you've read the book and, preferably, this 35-page article that Bagley wrote in 2014 ...
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362
... and then read a lame biography of Kissevalter by (mole, suckered in, or just desperate for money?) author and former CIA officer, Clarence Ashley, titled "CIA Spymaster".
-- MWT ;)
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CIA officers ...like Leonard McCoy
You mean Bones? I had no idea ???
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/DeForest_Kelley%2C_Dr._McCoy%2C_Star_Trek.jpg/220px-DeForest_Kelley%2C_Dr._McCoy%2C_Star_Trek.jpg)DeForest Kelley as Leonard McCoy in a publicity photograph for the original Star Trek series
...and worst of all, to make the CIA virtually a zombified appendage of the KGB.
The evil evil KGB?----Dos Vidanya. Poka. Adiosed. Dissolved. Finished. Doesn't exist anymore. Gone. Kapoot. Outta here.
One of the most tragic things to arise out of the JFK assassination?
The Deep State Insiders won.
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You mean Bones? I had no idea ???
The evil evil KGB?
-- Dos Vidanya. Poka. Adiosed. Dissolved. Finished. Doesn't exist anymore. Gone. Kapoot. Outta here.
The Deep State Insiders won.
No, Jerry.
Leonard Vernon McCoy. (Nice try though, Yuk Yuk Yuk.)
Here, you can read about the traitor-like damage he did to CIA's counterintelligence efforts against the KGB and the GRU in the first six or so pages of this article.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362
Funny how, although the KGB (today's SVR and FSB) is deader than a doornail, the likes of Aldrich Ames, Anna Chapman and the Twelve Dwarfs, and Maria Butina, et al., live on, da?
Yes, the true Deep State -- known as the KGB (today's SVR and FSB) and the GRU -- is winning, especially since it installed (ironically anti-"DEEP STATE") Trump as our president, so you're right about that much.
Which makes you very happy?
-- MWT ;)
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Funny how, although the KGB (today's SVR and FSB) is deader than a doornail, the likes of Aldrich Ames, Anna Chapman and the Twelve Dwarfs, and Maria Butina, et al., live on, da? Yes, the true Deep State -- known as the KGB (today's SVR and FSB) and the GRU -- is winning, especially since it installed (ironically anti-"DEEP STATE") Trump as our president, so you're right about that much.
I don't know who the Twelve Dwarfs are. There were seven on the Warren Commission along with Snow Marina White. BTW ---is Anna Chapman related to a buddy of yours here named Bill?
Yeah Russia has done quite a bit of damage here...good thing you have such a good friend in China.
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I don't know who the Twelve Dwarfs are. There were seven on the Warren Commission along with Snow Marina White. BTW ---is Anna Chapman related to a buddy of yours here named Bill?
Yeah Russia has done quite a bit of damage here...good thing you have such a good friend in China.
Jerry,
Are you ignorant, or just a bitter former Borscht Belt mentalist/ventriloquist?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program#Anna_Chapman
-- MWT ;)
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program#Anna_Chapman
Climb into the present willya? Born 20 years after the asassination-- Since she was deported... Anna Chapman started working deeeeeply undercover as a Russian fashion catwalk model... headed a TV series...and was employed as a government youth counselor.
Are you threatened by this in any way? Or do you need to waste some more web space chasing your tail?
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Climb into the present willya? Born 20 years after the asassination-- Since she was deported... Anna Chapman started working deeeeeply undercover as a Russian fashion catwalk model... headed a TV series...and was employed as a government youth counselor.
Are you threatened by this in any way? Or do you need to waste some more web space chasing your tail?
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
It doesn't concern you that Chapman and her group of "KGB" illegals started doing their decade-long dirtywork in the US after the "dissolution of the USSR", and that the "KGB" was still paying Aldrich Ames to spy for it until he was finally caught in the mid 1990s, etc, etc?
Are you threatened in any way by the fact that the GRU hacked the DNC's emails and gave them to Putin's virtual agent, Julian Assange, to distribute at critical moments during the 2016 campaign so that Putin's nemesis, Hillary Clinton, would lose, and so that his "useful idiot," Trump, would win?
-- MWT ;)
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
There is just one of me ::)
It doesn't concern you that Chapman and her group of "KGB" illegals started doing their decade-long dirtywork ..
Not at all---The Dumbocrapic party concerns me a lot more :-\
...so Putin's nemesis, Hillary Clinton, would lose...
How trollish :D
(https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Oh+that+hillary+is+so+clever+too+_ebc7e0e1f8f696c65369a2c39daeaa91.jpg)Nemesis :D
Who [again] are the "12 dwarfs?"
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There is just one of me ::)Not at all---The Dumbocrapic party concerns me a lot more :-\ How trollish :D
(https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Oh+that+hillary+is+so+clever+too+_ebc7e0e1f8f696c65369a2c39daeaa91.jpg)Nemesis :D
Who [again] are the "12 dwarfs?"
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
"The Twelve Dwarfs" is what I call the eleven or twelve or thirteen SVR (KGB) Russian-national "illegals" (undercover spies) who were living in the U.S. and Canada, with Russian "Anna Chapman" as the best-known member of their spy network, from about 2000 until they were "rolled up" by the FBI in 2010.
Ring any bells?
There's a Wikipedia article on them titled "The Illegals Program."
Why don't you look it up?
-- MWT ;)
PS Regarding Democrats, do you dislike the way we're treating Vladimir Putin's corrupt "useful idiot" appointee in the White House, and the lackeys he, in turn, has appointed/nominated, like William Barr, for example?
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Nothing useful in that post.
I would expect Russian agents to spy on Americans. I would not expect the FBI [for just purely political reasons] to spy on Americans.
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Jerry said:
"Nothing useful in that post.
I would expect Russian agents to spy on Americans. I would not expect the FBI [for just purely political reasons] to spy on Americans."
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
I thought you said the "KGB" was dead and inactive?
Nothing useful? You mean it doesn't give you any ammo to use against the mythological CIA and FBI-controlled "Deep State"?
-- MWT ;)
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There's a pretty good show on TV lately called Spy Wars. I've watched about 3 episodes of it and it talks about Russian and US spies, counter spies and so on. Yes, I'm sure it continues and yes, I'm sure it was happening way back over 50 years ago when Kennedy was president.
Greg Parker wrote a good article about LHO and the so-called defection:
https://gregrparker.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/keenan.redskin.pdf
And of course Bill Simpich wrote State Secret:
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret.html
But Thomas Graves seems to continue to obsess with the Russians and they were somehow involved.
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There's a pretty good show on TV lately called Spy Wars. I've watched about 3 episodes of it and it talks about Russian and US spies, counter spies and so on. Yes, I'm sure it continues and yes, I'm sure it was happening way back over 50 years ago when Kennedy was president.
Greg Parker wrote a good article about LHO and the so-called defection:
https://gregrparker.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/keenan.redskin.pdf
And of course Bill Simpich wrote State Secret:
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret.html
But Thomas Graves seems to continue to obsess with the Russians and they were somehow involved.
Michael,
The next time you confer with Bill, please ask him the following questions for me:
1) How was Eusebio Azcue's describing, in 1978, the "Oswald" he'd dealt with at the Cuban consulate in such a way that it perfectly described skinny, short, blond-haired, very thin-faced, 35 year-old KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov ... a "Red Herring"?
Does he think Azcue was working for the CIA?
2) What does he make of the fact that the Soviet embassy's well-paid "security guard" who volunteered the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline on 10/1/63 to a (bad Russian-speaking and bad ENGLISH-speaking) Oswald impersonator ... was a Kremlin-loyal triple agent (in other words, a KGB officer whom CIA mistakenly believed it had successfully recruited, but in fact was still working for the KGB)?
3) Does he still incorrectly believe that Obyedkov (misspelled "Byetkov" in Church Committee transcript of Angleton's June 1975 top-secret testimony) might have been FBI's 1966 SHAMROCK (in reality, Boris Orehkov)?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
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Jerry said: I would expect Russian agents to spy on Americans. I would not expect the FBI [for just purely political reasons] to spy on Americans."
I did write [and confirm] that.
I thought you said the "KGB" was dead and inactive?
I did write [and confirm] that. Why do you have to belong to some defunct agency to be a spy?
Duh ::)
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I've only chatted with him once about 2 years ago and nothing since. The preponderance of the evidence, Tom, is this was an inside job. I'm not going to say who and I really don't care. The key word here is "preponderance" which means there are a greater number of leads that lead to this "inside job" than your Russians did it.
I advise you to read that write up by Parker too. I know you'll now say "what about how Newman agreed with me." It was a very small thing he agreed with you on, sort of like saying there was a blue dot instead of a red dot in a very large tapestry of colors.
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I did write [and confirm] that.I did write [and confirm] that. Why do you have to belong to some defunct agency to be a spy?
Defunct?
You mean that the humanitarian organization known as the KGB, which until 1991 was comprised of two behemoths, The First Chief Directorate ("foreign" intelligence) and The Second Chief Directorate ("internal" intelligence), magically morphed into two less-threatening organizations (the SVR -- foreign intelligence, and the FSB -- internal intelligence; go figure) which flat-out refused to carry out its predecessors' 1959 plans to subvert, through a combination of traditional "active measures" and Sun Tzu-like "strategic deceptions," our own intelligence agencies (which it had completed by 1974, btw), society, and body politic so that the Mafia-That-Is-And-Will-Always-Be-"KGB" could eventually have its way with us and our Western allies?
(Did you know that Putin's net worth was estimated to be between $40 billion and $200 billion in 2014?)
Just curious: Do you consider yourself to be "anti-America" and/or "pro-Russia"? (You come across as being both to me.)
Are you disappointed that Anna Chapman and her twelve-or-so buds were finally rolled up in 2010, having STARTED living in the U.S. and Canada some ten years after the "dissolution" of the USSR and concomitant tragic, tragic, tragic "demise" of the KGB?
Disappointed that Aldrich Ames (who, ironically, was in Counterintelligence against the Soviets/Russians) was finally uncovered in 1994?
That most Americans now realize that the GRU hacked DNC's emails in 2016?
That Vladimir Putin and his virtual agents Julian Assange and Fox News installed his corrupt, "useful idiot" as our president?
That ...
LOL
-- MWT ;)
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Just curious: Do you consider yourself to be "anti-America" and/or "pro-Russia"? (You come across as being both to me.)
:D Good one. Silly as hell though.
Actually, it is the liberal snowflakes that are anti-American. Biden and Hillary are both globalists don't you know? So are all their political toadies. Trump might be a schmoe but at least he says "America first" which just simply ires the cheezy left.
T G will really really like this one [when you get a chance].... https://www.norad.mil/Portals/29/Documents/Robinson_03-22-18.pdf
NORADs assessment of everybody.
Why did the Obama/Biden admin ever suck up to the Iranian Imams who seemingly absolutely reviles the western world?
BTW...Thank you for my service in the US Navy (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/Clapping.gif)
"Anti-American"....Yank my chain Bud :D
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:D Good one. Silly as hell though.
Actually, it is the liberal snowflakes that are anti-American. Biden and Hillary are both globalists don't you know? So are all their political toadies. Trump might be a schmoe but at least he says "America first" which just simply ires the cheezy left.
T G will really really like this one [when you get a chance].... https://www.norad.mil/Portals/29/Documents/Robinson_03-22-18.pdf
NORADs assessment of everybody.
Why did the Obama/Biden admin ever suck up to the Iranian Imams who seemingly absolutely reviles the western world?
BTW...Thank you for my service in the US Navy (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/Clapping.gif)
"Anti-American"....Yank my chain Bud :D
Okay.
Anti-CIA and anti-FBI, then?
Pro-KGB Fascistic Mafia-Boy Vladimir Putin (the guy who arranged the FSB's bombing of several apartment buildings in 1999 -- murdering 300 Russians -- so that he would automatically become president when Yeltsin "decided" to retire)?
Come on, fess up.
-- MWT ;)
PS Trump says "America First" as he denigrates our intelligence agencies in deference to Putin's SVR, FSB and GRU (can you say "DNC Hack" and "Novichok"?) ... as he enriches himself at taxpayers' expense.
PPS Hey, your hero Oswald thought, for about a year, that he'd fallen in love with Khrushchev, didn't he?
Don't worry, it happens to the most gullible, and especially the most anti-American(?) of us.
LOL