JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Michael Carney on August 27, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
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I didn’t see a thread that asks this question and I think that’s very odd. So I will do it……. if it has been covered kindly lead me to it please.
The who is not as important as the why. Who was up on the 6th floor of the TSBD, who was on the grassy knoll, who was in the Dal Tex building? Was it Fines and or Woody Harrelsens dad? Charles Nicolette, guy in the sewer it doesn’t matter it’s who was behind it. There are many possible answers to this question; lone gunman, CIA, FBI, Castro, Russia, the Mob, and countless other conspiracy theory’s.
Why a lone gunman? Maybe it was Lee Harvey Oswald and why would he do it, well maybe he was a nut and hated America. After all he did defect to Russia but I think you will find the CIA in his past. I won’t get into that but there is plenty of material out there about it.
Some say LBJ did it but I doubt that, he knew it was going to happen according to his mistress and also because it was said that he ducked during the motorcade. But I guess I might duck too if I heard shots fired. LBJ had made some indication to her the night before that something was going to happen.
The CIA because of the Bay of Pigs fiasco. And on and on.
I say the Mob and here’s why. When JFK was running for President his father, Joe Kennedy went to Frank Sinatra and asked to get the help of the Mob to get the Illinois and another state, West Virginia? To get out the word that they should vote for JFK. The plan was to get JFK elected and then the US would go after Castro.
A little history, the mob had casinos in Cuba and when Castro took over he shut them down. The mob was making millions through the casinos in Cuba and now nothing. So they wanted Cuba back the way it was under Batista. They had the casinos and they paid Batista off, everyone was happy.
So Kennedy gets elected and appoints his brother Bobby Attorney General. So what does Bobby do but go after the mob. You don’t double cross the mob unless you want to get killed.
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I didn’t see a thread that asks this question and I think that’s very odd.
Sure there are.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1983.0.html
Use the search function and look for motive or Oswald's motive.
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Jerry,
Thanks for that but it was just about Oswald's motive for shooting the president. I am looking for talk about who was behind it if Oswald did not shoot the president. Like talk about the CIA, the FBI, mob and other's. None of the threads had any mention of who was behind it.
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Jerry,
Thanks for that but it was just about Oswald's motive for shooting the president.
That's all that most of the members here consider.
Conjecture and speculation to the contrary is subjectively ridiculed so you won't find too much on this forum.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,575.0.html
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Jerry, thanks for that one, it's more up my alley and an opportunity to introduce my understanding of what happened.
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There has been some discussion about it, but it’s all speculative — just like the Oswald narrative.
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With me I pick up one “fact” in one book and another “fact” in another where a reasonable man would believe it to be true. Put all these facts together and they point to Marcello and Trafficante.
A little more about Carlos Marcella, he was the head of the oldest mafia “family” in the nation based in New Orleans. It controlled Louisiana all the way to the top, had the politicians, police in his pocket. Ran illegal casinos and basically controlled all the illegal activity in the gulf states area of the US. This tells his story as I understand it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Marcello
It mentions many of the books I have read on the subject; Mafia Kingfish, Frank Ragano’s book Mob Lawyer, Hidden History of the JFK Assassination, all of them point to Marcello.
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Now I will do the “why”
Reason #1 – “On March 24, 1959, Marcello appeared before the United States Senate's McClellan Committee investigating organized crime. Serving as Chief Counsel to the committee was Robert F. Kennedy; his brother, Senator John F. Kennedy, was a member of the committee. In response to committee questioning, Marcello invoked the Fifth Amendment and refused to answer any questions relating to his background, activities, and associates. From then on, Marcello became an avowed enemy of the Kennedys.” This was the beginning of the feud between Marcello and the Kennedys. Jimmy Hoffa was in the same boat with Marcello and the Kennedy brothers. After Jimmy Hoffa got grilled in front of the committee he met up with Marcello and Trafficante afterwards and he was furious and told them something had to be done with the Kennedy brothers. Marcello and Trafficante just looked at each other knowing it was in the works.
Reason #2 - Meanwhile JFK is running for president and I mentioned previously that Joe Kennedy, his father, went to Frank Sinatra to get help from the Chicago mob, Sam Giancana, to get the Illinois vote along with West Virginia I believe. So they get the vote, JFK wins the presidency, and now the mob expects to get some special treatment but no, the Kennedy’s double cross the mob. They expected the US to take back Cuba and thus the mob gets their casinos back, but no dice, they got screwed over. Not nice to screw over the mob.
Reason #3 - You probably read that Bobby Kennedy as Attorney General basically kidnapped Marcello as he was checking into his routine immigration authorities like he did on a regular basis. Then they took him to a plane which flew him to Guatemala. He was let off the plane to fend for himself. He did have connections in Guatemala so he contacted his family and lawyer and they came down to join him. So he is down there for about two months and the US government contacts him and says they are going to let him back in to the country. So eventually he and his lawyer are traveling to El Salvador to a military prison to wait for the transportation back to the states. So then after they are traveling to an airbase where they will catch a plane back to the states. So they are traveling for sometime through jungle terrain and all of a sudden the bus pulls over and they are told to get out. The bus takes off and they are stranded in the jungle in their wingtips with not a clue where they are. They are left to fend for themselves in the jungle with no protection of any kind from wildlife. They hike along the road for miles and eventually come across a couple of kids who I believe try to mislead them but eventually they wind up at a small airport and from there they get back to the states. This happened in 1961.
So at this point Marcello hates Bobby Kennedy so much, it’s almost unbearable. So why did he go after JFK and not RFK? Because if he had gone after RFK, JFK would have used all the resources he had, which were many, to find out who killed his brother. So with JFK out of the way, LBJ is now the president and RFK is powerless as Attorney General.
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Oswald. He was a nut.
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He certainly was the mystery man.
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He certainly was the mystery man.
He was mystery guest #2
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Who was mystery guest #1?
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Oswald. He was a nut.
Yep
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Who was mystery guest #1?
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With me I pick up one “fact” in one book and another “fact” in another where a reasonable man would believe it to be true. Put all these facts together and they point to Marcello and Trafficante.
A little more about Carlos Marcella, he was the head of the oldest mafia “family” in the nation based in New Orleans. It controlled Louisiana all the way to the top, had the politicians, police in his pocket. Ran illegal casinos and basically controlled all the illegal activity in the gulf states area of the US. This tells his story as I understand it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Marcello
It mentions many of the books I have read on the subject; Mafia Kingfish, Frank Ragano’s book Mob Lawyer, Hidden History of the JFK Assassination, all of them point to Marcello.
Mike, I think you're looking for an easy answer and an easily identifiable evil entity, like Marcello or Trafficante or Dracula ( Nearly everbody recognizes an established evil entity) Lee Oswald has been painted as an evil entity in our history books, so why not accept that BS?
It's Very obvious that any established " evil entity " that you'd like to propose could not have controlled the autopsy or fed misinformation to the reporters.
So perhaps you should look for a "wolf in Lamb's clothing.... I'd suggest you look at LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover.
The men behind the conspiracy thought of themselves as real patroits... They thought that JFK was destroying their nation, just as the men behind Lincoln's murder thought that Lincoln was destroying their nation.....And they took action.
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Who was mystery guest #1?
From 'The Divine Miss M' viewpoint, mystery-guest#1 was the guy standing to the left of mystery-guest #2
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BONUS
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Mystery-guest#3 was the guy standing to the right of mystery-guest#2. Mystery-guest#4 was the guy standing to the right of mystery-guest#3 who was standing to the right of mystery-guest#2 who was standing to the left of mystery-guest#1
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Yep
Mystery guest#2 in the lineup was Oswald
I authored the 'Mystery-Guest' thing some time ago
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Walt,
Mike, I think you're looking for an easy answer and an easily identifiable evil entity, like Marcello or Trafficante or Dracula ( Nearly everybody recognizes an established evil entity) Lee Oswald has been painted as an evil entity in our history books, so why not accept that BS?
Because I know he didn’t do it, witnesses placed him in the lunchroom or the coke machine at the time of the shooting. Carlos Marcello and Santo Trafficante admitted to doing it, not the actual shooting, they had professionals to do that.
It's Very obvious that any established "evil entity " that you'd like to propose could not have controlled the autopsy or fed misinformation to the reporters.
I guess you are not reading the other threads that I am writing on. I have gone over this but will repeat. The shot that hit JFK in the head was accidently fired by George Hickey, Secret Service agent. Because of this, the Secret Service controlled the autopsy. Once this was known by our government the cover-up began. Hoover was owned by the mafia so he fed information that favored the mafia, and in doing so it helped the WC make their point of a single shooter.
So perhaps you should look for a "wolf in Lamb's clothing.... I'd suggest you look at LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover.
I have looked at LBJ and Hoover. LBJ knew it was going to happen but I doubt he colluded; he was just in the know. Because Dallas was in Marcello’s territory, I’m sure LBJ and Marcello have rubbed elbows or his lieutenant Joseph Campisi who ran the Dallas mob .
Hoover like I said was owned by the mafia but he didn’t plan it. I am not saying he wasn’t consulted but he was not the mastermind.
The men behind the conspiracy thought of themselves as real patroits... They thought that JFK was destroying their nation, just as the men behind Lincoln's murder thought that Lincoln was destroying their nation.....And they took action.
Again, read some of the other threads I write in. The reason Marcello killed JFK was to stop his brother, RFK, from going after the mob and Hoffa. Marcello hated RFK for the hearings he was dragged into and the abuse he had to take from RFK during those hearings. He also hated RFK for being kidnapped by the feds and whisked off to Guatemala and eventually abandoned in the jungles of Equator. He was so pissed that he decided to go after RFK but if he did, JFK would have used all sources he had to get whoever killed RFK. So Marcello went after JFK, that way RFK was powerless under LBJ and Hoover. You have probably heard the saying “don’t cut off the tail of the dog, cut off the head” and that’s what he did.
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Bill, Please provide a link to the "divine people" I am at a loss, thanks
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Bill, Please provide a link to the "divine people" I am at a loss, thanks
The real divine miss M is actually Bette Midler
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Bill, Please provide a link to the "divine people" I am at a loss, thanks
If you were actually able to follow Chapman's incomprehensible babble, I would be worried about you.
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The reason Marcello killed JFK was to stop his brother, RFK, from going after the mob and Hoffa. Marcello hated RFK for the hearings he was dragged into and the abuse he had to take from RFK during those hearings. He also hated RFK for being kidnapped by the feds and whisked off to Guatemala and eventually abandoned in the jungles of Equator. He was so pissed that he decided to go after RFK but if he did, JFK would have used all sources he had to get whoever killed RFK. So Marcello went after JFK, that way RFK was powerless under LBJ and Hoover. You have probably heard the saying “don’t cut off the tail of the dog, cut off the head” and that’s what he did.
The mafia are not used to people standing up to them the way JFK and RFK did. It didn't matter that he was President. He was stepping on their turf and you dont step in the mafias turf even if you are President.
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The mafia are not used to people standing up to them the way JFK and RFK did. It didn't matter that he was President. He was stepping on their turf and you dont step in the mafias turf even if you are President.
True.... Especially when the Mafia belives that they have you in their pocket. JFK was unaware that his dad had made a deal with the mob to deliver the Chicago votes to get his son, JFK, elected. When JFK chose his brother Bobby as his AG and Bobby started going after organized crime the Mob felt that they had been duped.... And they were out for revenge. Hoover knew what was going on and he sanctioned they Mafia's scheme. And of course LBJ also endorsed the hit, because RFK was one step away from putting LBJ in the "Big House".....LBJ had planned on going into the White House.....
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Not to mention RFK kidnapping Marcello and ultimately leaving him out in the middle of nowhere in the jungles of Central America.
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Carlos Marcello did not have the kind of influence or power to control the military industrial complex that wished to remove JFK in advance of a reelection. The same kind of deep state influence back then is the same as today.
They hated Kennedy then...today they hate Trump.
Here are a couple of links to better understand the Marcello end of the hit.....
Carlos Marcello and the Making of a Mafia Myth---- By Lamar White, Jr. -May 2, 2020
https://www.bayoubrief.com/2020/05/02/carlos-marcello-and-the-making-of-a-mafia-myth/
“I am not in no racket. I am not in no organized crime.”
– Carlos Marcello
After the assassination of Kennedy the Federal Bureau of Investigation investigated Marcello. They came to the conclusion that they "did not believe Carlos Marcello was a significant organized crime figure" and that Marcello earned his living "as a tomato salesman and real estate investor." As a result of this investigation the Warren Commission concluded that there was no direct link between Ruby and Marcello.
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKmarcello.htm
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Walt I didn't know the boys, JFK and RFK didn't know about the deal their father had made with the mob, I thought they did and were just arrogant and above it all. Thanks for that, it gets clearer everyday.......
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If you were actually able to follow Chapman's incomprehensible babble, I would be worried about you.
Your rabid contrarianism, and deep love for Oswald, is blocking you from accessing your higher brain functions.
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Jerry,
I agree with your assessment of the state as it was then and is now although back then they had more to worry about with the Cuban missile crisis, Russia etc.
You are right that Marcello himself did not have the kind of influence to control the military industrial complex but J Edgar Hoover did. Hoover was probably the most powerful person in the world at that time. He had the goods on everyone and they had to toe the line. He wire tapped everyone; he had conversations on JFK and Marilyn Monroe. He had dirt on all significant people in congress, hollywood, you name it, if you were important, he had dirt on you.
So what’s the connection? The mob had the dirt on Hoover and they owned him. Hoover regulated the information that the WC got and I am sure that the information they received threw attention away from Marcello and onto Oswald and the single shooter theory.
“I am not in no racket. I am not in no organized crime.”
– Carlos Marcello
What’s your point, it’s well known that Marcello was not an educated person, he learned everything on the streets or in prison. To him the word “that” was pronounced “dat” and I am sure he mispronounced many other words which made him sound illiterate.
"After the assassination of Kennedy the Federal Bureau of Investigation investigated Marcello. They came to the conclusion that they "did not believe Carlos Marcello was a significant organized crime figure" and that Marcello earned his living "as a tomato salesman and real estate investor." As a result of this investigation the Warren Commission concluded that there was no direct link between Ruby and Marcello."
Perfect, just what the mob wanted to complete their “patsy” scenario.
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Walt I didn't know the boys, JFK and RFK didn't know about the deal their father had made with the mob, I thought they did and were just arrogant and above it all. Thanks for that, it gets clearer everyday.......
If Old Joe K had remained healthy he woyld have been able to control his sons.... And kept them from going after Hoffa, and Marcello, and the likes.... Unfortunately Old Joe became ill, and died....
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Your rabid contrarianism, and deep love for Oswald, is blocking you from accessing your higher brain functions.
...and you have the nerve to call other people gaslighters.
You wouldn't know a "higher brain function" if it bit you in the azz.
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...and you have the nerve to call other people gaslighters.
You wouldn't know a "higher brain function" if it bit you in the azz.
I never start fights; but will respond in kind.
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I came across this article yesterday about Gianni Russo author of Hollywood Godfather and it's pretty interesting. I apologize in advance for all the pop up ad's but well worth your time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7712649/Godfather-actor-says-knows-mobster-REALLY-assassinated-JFK.html
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Oswald. He was a nut.
Really??.... Do they allow " nuts" to join the Marine Corps and then give them firearms and ammunition?