JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on February 24, 2021, 09:23:43 PM
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Is there a crossover between JFK assassination conspiracy proponents and belief in UFOs?
Larry Hancock has written a book on UFOs. In the below video (at 15 minutes in) Hancock says he believes aliens might be among us:
Jim Marrs also wrote on this topic (Alien Agenda: Investigating the Extraterrestrial Presence Among by Jim Marrs).
I haven't studied this topic but it seems garbage to me.
Do you believe in UFOs (as in alien aircraft and not just something that is unidentified)?
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I’m a LNer and I do not believe that UFOs are alien spacecrafts. I suspect that the universe is so vast that it is impossible for any technology to allow visits from one civilization to another. I think there are logical reasons why this is so.
The universe is remarkable that it has just the right properties for Life to exist. One possible answer is that this is because God made it this way. But I am biased towards natural, non-supernatural explanations. I think very many universes have been created, most without the possibility of live but a few with just the right conditions that allow it.
If one were to create a catalog file of each civilization in all these universes, most entries would be members of a universe with many civilizations. In all probability, we are members of just such a universe and not a universe that produces only a few civilizations.
This is analogous to the size of towns in America that people live in. There are over 16,000 towns with less than 10,000 people. And only 3,000 towns with more than 10,000 people. But there are far more people who live in towns with more than 10,000 people than those who live in smaller communities. Pick a random person from a catalog file of all Americans. That person probably lives in a town with more than 10,000 people.
What characteristics would such a universe have:
1. Many stars that could support a solar system that nurtured and developed a civilization.
2. Somehow the civilizations must be kept isolated from each other.
This second characteristics is necessary, otherwise the first civilization that developed in one planet could quickly spread through the universe, making it impossible for others to form.
Could our universe meet these two criteria?
Yes. It is large, with many potential solar systems. And there are vast distances between the stars. So, it appears that our universe matches both criteria. Many potential civilizations. But too isolated from each other for one to colonize the entire galaxy, let alone beyond, to prevent the rise of other civilizations.
So, my bet is that our universe has many alien civilizations. But they are too isolated by sheer distance to visit each other. Unless, we just happen to be a part of a universe that produces only a few civilizations, which is not likely.
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https://www.universetoday.com/15403/how-long-would-it-take-to-travel-to-the-nearest-star/
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Is there a crossover between JFK assassination conspiracy proponents and belief in UFOs?
Larry Hancock has written a book on UFOs. In the below video (at 15 minutes in) Hancock says he believes aliens might be among us:
Jim Marrs also wrote on this topic (Alien Agenda: Investigating the Extraterrestrial Presence Among by Jim Marrs).
I haven't studied this topic but it seems garbage to me.
Do you believe in UFOs (as in alien aircraft and not just something that is unidentified)?
Un Founded Opinions..... Not for a minute.
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I’m a LNer and I do not believe that UFOs are alien spacecrafts. I suspect that the universe is so vast that it is impossible for any technology to allow visits from one civilization to another. I think there are logical reasons why this is so.
The universe is remarkable that it has just the right properties for Life to exist. One possible answer is that this is because God made it this way. But I am biased towards natural, non-supernatural explanations. I think very many universes have been created, most without the possibility of live but a few with just the right conditions that allow it.
If one were to create a catalog file of each civilization in all these universes, most entries would be members of a universe with many civilizations. In all probability, we are members of just such a universe and not a universe that produces only a few civilizations.
This is analogous to the size of towns in America that people live in. There are over 16,000 towns with less than 10,000 people. And only 3,000 towns with more than 10,000 people. But there are far more people who live in towns with more than 10,000 people than those who live in smaller communities. Pick a random person from a catalog file of all Americans. That person probably lives in a town with more than 10,000 people.
What characteristics would such a universe have:
1. Many stars that could support a solar system that nurtured and developed a civilization.
2. Somehow the civilizations must be kept isolated from each other.
This second characteristics is necessary, otherwise the first civilization that developed in one planet could quickly spread through the universe, making it impossible for others to form.
Could our universe meet these two criteria?
Yes. It is large, with many potential solar systems. And there are vast distances between the stars. So, it appears that our universe matches both criteria. Many potential civilizations. But too isolated from each other for one to colonize the entire galaxy, let alone beyond, to prevent the rise of other civilizations.
So, my bet is that our universe has many alien civilizations. But they are too isolated by sheer distance to visit each other. Unless, we just happen to be a part of a universe that produces only a few civilizations, which is not likely.
Well said+
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Well said+
Thank you.
Without knowing anything about Astronomy, without access to telescopes, but only knowing:
• The many universes have been created, with different Physical Laws.
• In vast majority of these universes have, no life is possible. Some universes will generate a few advanced civilizations, some a lot.
One can logically deduce that we probably (not absolutely) live in a universe with very many civilizations. With many stars and many solar systems that can and do produce an advanced civilization. Even if it is less than one solar system per billion. From this we can deduce that there are:
• Many solar systems.
• Some property of the universe that makes it impossible to visit multiple solar systems.
If both of these properties are not met, the universe will not produce a huge number of advanced civilizations. There must be many solar systems for there to be many potential advanced civilizations. There must be some mechanism that prevents space travel from one solar system to another. Otherwise, the first advanced civilization could quickly (on geological time scales) colonize the entire galaxy, reducing the number of advanced civilizations that could form from something like 10 ** 15 to 10 ** 12, a significant reduction. Even if universes that produce something like 10 ** 12 advanced civilizations are ten times more common than those that produce 10 ** 15, most advanced civilizations would form in universes with 10 ** 15 advanced civilizations.
And when we do look in telescopes, we find this prediction is borne out. There is something like 10 ** 24 stars out there. With one and a billion stars producing a civilization, there would be 10 ** 15 civilizations that have formed. But if interstellar space travel is possible, this number is greatly reduced to 10 ** 12. And if space travel between galaxies is also possible, this number would be greatly reduced.
I think this reasoning provides the best answer to Fermi’s Paradox. Logically there should be many other advanced civilizations out there, because the universe is vast, the Laws and Physics are the same everywhere, and if it can happen here why not at other places? But if this is true “Where are They”?
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I’m a LNer and I do not believe that UFOs are alien spacecrafts. I suspect that the universe is so vast that it is impossible for any technology to allow visits from one civilization to another. I think there are logical reasons why this is so.
The universe is remarkable that it has just the right properties for Life to exist. One possible answer is that this is because God made it this way. But I am biased towards natural, non-supernatural explanations. I think very many universes have been created, most without the possibility of live but a few with just the right conditions that allow it.
If one were to create a catalog file of each civilization in all these universes, most entries would be members of a universe with many civilizations. In all probability, we are members of just such a universe and not a universe that produces only a few civilizations.
This is analogous to the size of towns in America that people live in. There are over 16,000 towns with less than 10,000 people. And only 3,000 towns with more than 10,000 people. But there are far more people who live in towns with more than 10,000 people than those who live in smaller communities. Pick a random person from a catalog file of all Americans. That person probably lives in a town with more than 10,000 people.
What characteristics would such a universe have:
1. Many stars that could support a solar system that nurtured and developed a civilization.
2. Somehow the civilizations must be kept isolated from each other.
This second characteristics is necessary, otherwise the first civilization that developed in one planet could quickly spread through the universe, making it impossible for others to form.
Could our universe meet these two criteria?
Yes. It is large, with many potential solar systems. And there are vast distances between the stars. So, it appears that our universe matches both criteria. Many potential civilizations. But too isolated from each other for one to colonize the entire galaxy, let alone beyond, to prevent the rise of other civilizations.
So, my bet is that our universe has many alien civilizations. But they are too isolated by sheer distance to visit each other. Unless, we just happen to be a part of a universe that produces only a few civilizations, which is not likely.
I’m a LNer and I do not believe that UFOs are alien spacecrafts.
Usually the report says that the UFO is a bright light.....There are few reports of a physical (material) object being a UFO.
Since light travels very fast.......a beam of light from a distant planet might reach earth in a relatively short period of time.
Therefore if there is any intelligent life out there they also may know that they can contact other planets by using a light.
Perhaps that is what is being seen as a UFO.
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So, my bet is that our universe has many alien civilizations. But they are too isolated by sheer distance to visit each other. Unless, we just happen to be a part of a universe that produces only a few civilizations, which is not likely.
Hawking said that any alien civilization that could find a way to transverse the vast distances it would take to reach us would be so advanced that they would treat us as nothing more than an anthill. Something that one steps over or around in a forest.
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Hawking said that any alien civilization that could find a way to transverse the vast distances it would take to reach us would be so advanced that they would treat us as nothing more than an anthill. Something that one steps over or around in a forest.
As to whether UFOs are aliens or alien technology: There's probably a natural, earthly explanation for the phenomenon. We just haven't figured it out yet. Although those so-called "tic tac" objects are completely mystifying to me. How can we explain them?
As to Hawking's "insect" analogy: Any advanced civilization with the technology to reach us here millions (billions?) of light years away from them would presumably have already used that technology to explore other worlds. So on the list of other worlds to have explored, to be worthy of study, where would we be?
Again presumably not very high up on that list. At least in terms of technology.
But an advanced alien civilization would also realize - I would think - that we are sentient, conscious human beings with some advances that ants don't have. Our technological understanding, our civilization may look "ant like" to them in the manner that entomologists study them; but we as living, thinking, conscious things are far advanced from ants. After all, technological advancement is not the only way to measure a civilization. The ancient Greeks were like insects to us in terms of their scientific knowledge. But they asked questions that are timeless: What is the good life? How do we live? What is beauty? What is the truth? Wouldn't an alien entity be curious about us because we ask those transcendent things?
Recall that the scientists in 16th century Elizabethan England were just figuring out how magnets worked. Kids stuff. But they produced Shakespeare at the same time. I would think aliens would find interest in what he wrote if not what the scientists of his generation discovered. So would we be just insects to them, just dust, or something more?
As Hamlet said: "What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world. The paragon of animals. And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me. No, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so."
If these advanced aliens saw us as the latter then we are of no interest. But if the former then we might just be an interesting species.
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As to whether UFOs are aliens or alien technology: There's probably a natural, earthly explanation for the phenomenon. We just haven't figured it out yet. Although those so-called "tic tac" objects are completely mystifying to me. How can we explain them?
As to Hawking's "insect" analogy: Any advanced civilization with the technology to reach us here millions (billions?) of light years away from them would presumably have already used that technology to explore other worlds. So on the list of other worlds to have explored, to be worthy of study, where would we be?
Again presumably not very high up on that list. At least in terms of technology.
But an advanced alien civilization would also realize - I would think - that we are sentient, conscious human beings with some advances that ants don't have. Our technological understanding, our civilization may look "ant like" to them in the manner that entomologists study them; but we as living, thinking, conscious things are far advanced from ants. After all, technological advancement is not the only way to measure a civilization. The ancient Greeks were like insects to us in terms of their scientific knowledge. But they asked questions that are timeless: What is the good life? How do we live? What is beauty? What is the truth? Wouldn't an alien entity be curious about us because we ask those transcendent things?
Recall that the scientists in 16th century Elizabethan England were just figuring out how magnets worked. Kids stuff. But they produced Shakespeare at the same time. I would think aliens would find interest in what he wrote if not what the scientists of his generation discovered. So would we be just insects to them, just dust, or something more?
As Hamlet said: "What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world. The paragon of animals. And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me. No, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so."
If these advanced aliens saw us as the latter then we are of no interest. But if the former then we might just be an interesting species.
Hawking had a somewhat gloomier view of what would likely befall this planet if a bunch of oversized lizards were to appear overhead in flying saucers.
The reason Stephen Hawking thought aliens would kill us
https://www.grunge.com/249294/the-reason-stephen-hawking-thought-aliens-would-kill-us/
Hawking’s Alien Warning: Let’s not Contact them, After All
https://www.themarysue.com/stephen-hawking-aliens/