JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Andrew Mason on April 16, 2021, 06:02:42 PM
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Saddened to see the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporting today on the death yesterday of John McAdams (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2021/04/15/marquette-political-science-professor-john-mcadams-dies/7246026002/). While we rarely saw the world the same way, (although we did not disagree on the events of November 22, 1963 and Oswald being the lone assassin) I found him to be a tolerant, intelligent and generous fellow. I had the pleasure of meeting him (must have been close to 20 years ago) over coffee while I was visiting in Milwaukee. I recall, following my comment on the beautiful waterfront and river parks in Milwaukee, his entertaining explanation of how Milwaukee's history of socialist mayors and councillors had impacted Milwaukee - good and bad. RIP John.
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I too am sad to hear of the passing of Dr. John McAdams. He was certainly the top LN spokesman in the world. Not really an expert on any one field, like Ballistics or Medicine, but he had the most widespread knowledge on the subject of the JFK assassination of any of the LN spokesmen, at least since the passing of Vincent Bugliosi over 5 years ago. He was always polite and civilized when he debated CTers. His website on the assassination had a lot of information. I got the impression that many CTers wished this website did not exist.
I always thought it would be fun to take his class on the JFK assassination, but never had the chance. Has anyone hear taken his class? Or talked to anyone who has? I wonder what it was like.
It would also be good to hear from anyone who met him.
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I too am sad to hear of the passing of Dr. John McAdams. He was certainly the top LN spokesman in the world. Not really an expert on any one field, like Ballistics or Medicine, but he had the most widespread knowledge on the subject of the JFK assassination of any of the LN spokesmen, at least since the passing of Vincent Bugliosi over 5 years ago. He was always polite and civilized when he debated CTers. His website on the assassination had a lot of information. I got the impression that many CTers wished this website did not exist.
I always thought it would be fun to take his class on the JFK assassination, but never had the chance. Has anyone hear taken his class? Or talked to anyone who has? I wonder what it was like.
It would also be good to hear from anyone who met him.
Yes, it's pretty sad. He posted, I believe, just three days ago and hadn't indicated he was ill.
It's clear that many CTs loathed him - the usual "he's CIA" allegation was always made - but he always, always, always defended the right of conspiracy believers to express their views. He never once argued for government suppression. As he pointed out, if the government can censor JFK conspiracy believers then who is next? And he was (correctly) critical of this new "social media" suppression that is, frankly, dangerous. I would guess his classroom was the same way. If you wanted to believe Martians killed JFK then go for it. Present your case. Even if any Martians around might be "triggered" or suffer emotional harm by such claims he would support your right to express it.
So whether the CT crowd believed it or not, in reality he was on "their side." That is, the side that believes in the right to challenge government, to express one's views whether popular or not, and in the right to hear other views, a right that is just as important as the right to express those views. Even if the views are, as I think many are, false ones. Even dangerous.
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RIP John McAdams. I hope his website stays up. It was a valuable way to check information.
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Strange. I emailed him recently about the absence of Anthony Marsh at the newsgroup. Now John himself is gone. My best to his loved ones.
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Terrible loss for everyone. I am attempting to put together a small tribute that I will have at my site. In the meantime, may God bless him and his family.
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I wonder if he made arrangements for the future of a.a.jfk. He was the sole moderator there. Would be a shame to see it perish alongside him.
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Yes, and I hope Marquette will maintain his website. Both are great resources.
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I was very saddened today to hear about the passing of Professor John McAdams. He was always very nice and helpful to me over the years (even when he had to reject some of my posts at his JFK forum). He will be greatly missed.
Here are my two "John McAdams" webpages. I've archived many of John's radio appearances and debates here:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/10/radio-debates-featuring-john-mcadams.html
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/11/john-mcadams.html
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ow7rz83k4_Y/U8OKnn5X8nI/AAAAAAAA1zE/HWn1STZlOXo/s1600/John-McAdams-Interview-Logo.png) (https://app.box.com/s/r0g1ppg00gzolezkplxq)
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Sad to hear. RIP. We all may have differences of opinion but at least a common interest.
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May he rest in peace.
Fred
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R.I.P John McAdams
Now lets see even one conspiracy site so much as mention his passing.
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I didn’t always agree with him but at least he was respectful and classy.
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At
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk?pli=1 (https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk?pli=1)
as recently as April 14, 2021, John McAdams was still making posts to that forum. And seven threads had posts reviewed and accepted on April 14. But no posts have been made since then. It appears no one is currently running that forum at the moment. It appears that Dr. McAdams passed away suddenly and was doing fairly well up until his last day.
But his websites like:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/news.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/news.htm)
and most importantly:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm)
are still going strong for now. Let us hope they continue to do so indefinitely.
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At
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk?pli=1 (https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk?pli=1)
as recently as April 14, 2021, John McAdams was still making posts to that forum. And seven threads had posts reviewed and accepted on April 14. But no posts have been made since then. It appears no one is currently running that forum at the moment. It appears that Dr. McAdams passed away suddenly and was doing fairly well up until his last day.
But his websites like:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/news.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/news.htm)
and most importantly:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm)
are still going strong for now. Let us hope they continue to do so indefinitely.
Good ol' John........ he was fun, too !! Me and him and Ralph Cinque and Tony Marsh had a ball together at his website. RIP, John. A Good Life+
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http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2021/04/tribute-to-john-mcadams.html
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http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2021/04/tribute-to-john-mcadams.html
Nice tribute, Tracy.
I'm going to guess that as a Southern boy and staunch conservative (I'll say <g>) that his experience as an "outsider" at Harvard and then Marquette probably deepened his strong support for free speech, for the right to challenge conventional views, and for the right to hear heterodox views. He likely had some, let's say, interesting exchanges with his fellow academics at the Harvard faculty lounge. Marquette too. So he needed that right more than others. And came to believe in its importance more too.
That commitment to free speech, to expressing unconventional views clearly was behind his efforts on the assassination. As long as one was civil, you could promote whatever conspiracy view you wanted to. He'd not suppress it or say it was forbidden. As you know, he was critical of the latest efforts by "social media" and others to suppress controversial views. Sure, some of these views are just awful - who the heck is QAnon anyway? and really, Ruth Paine was a CIA conspirator? - but the answer to bad speech is indeed more speech. That was clearly his view. And for what it's worth, mine too.
So while the conspiracists may celebrate his death (some of them are) they really should think twice about the party they're having. It's not John McAdams who was their enemy. Instead of celebrating his death, they should be toasting his support for their right to say what they believe.
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Nice tribute, Tracy.
I'm going to guess that as a Southern boy and staunch conservative (I'll say <g>) that his experience as an "outsider" at Harvard and then Marquette probably deepened his strong support for free speech, for the right to challenge conventional views, and for the right to hear heterodox views. He likely had some, let's say, interesting exchanges with his fellow academics at the Harvard faculty lounge. Marquette too. So he needed that right more than others. And came to believe in its importance more too.
That commitment to free speech, to expressing unconventional views clearly was behind his efforts on the assassination. As long as one was civil, you could promote whatever conspiracy view you wanted to. He'd not suppress it or say it was forbidden. As you know, he was critical of the latest efforts by "social media" and others to suppress controversial views. Sure, some of these views are just awful - who the heck is QAnon anyway? and really, Ruth Paine was a CIA conspirator? - but the answer to bad speech is indeed more speech. That was clearly his view. And for what it's worth, mine too.
So while the conspiracists may celebrate his death (some of them are) they really should think twice about the party they're having. It's not John McAdams who was their enemy. Instead of celebrating his death, they should be toasting his support for their right to say what they believe.
I recall reading about his clash with Marquette University over Gay Marriage and Climate Change skepticism.
I don't agree with his Conservative politics but agree that the freedom to express dissenting opinions in Academic environments is important.
As far as Conspiracy researchers being "happy" that he passed, I don't understand why your opinion of them is so low.
I don't recall a lot of negative comments when Bugliosi passed a few years ago.
People can in good faith view the same evidence and reach different conclusions. Debate is fine as long as it's respectful and as far as I remember, McAdams was usually respectful with those he disagreed with.
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So while the conspiracists may celebrate his death (some of them are) they really should think twice about the party they're having. It's not John McAdams who was their enemy. Instead of celebrating his death, they should be toasting his support for their right to say what they believe.
I agree completely Steve.
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Unfortunately, McAdams was raised in Jim Crow Alabama and it was reflected in his politics, including supporting Trump's racist policies.
DiEugenio and I recently have extremely different opinions, but I agree with everything he wrote in reply to W. Tracy Parnell in another forum. That said, I do not think it is fair to kick someone who is down.
Dr. McAdams approved the comments I posted on his newsgroup and when it was my call, I approved his comments on jfkfacts.org. My last comment submitted to his newsgroup was late on April 14 and I was surprised he approved no comments on April 15. I'm sorry to find out this reason, why. Rest in peace, John.
Dr. McAdams posted this reply to me. We developed an understanding. He was intelligent and well educated. Ironically, he graduated from Kennedy High School and taught there before going to Harvard grad school.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/cAsvprrKbUQ/m/9K9YsZkCEgAJ
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51122780076_997d0389f5_c.jpg)
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Debate-wise, McAdams was an expert at dissembling and deflection. His being raised in Alabama wasn't the only reason he was emboldened to support racist policies during the Trump years.
Maybe take the politics to the nutty anti-Trump thread.
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Debate-wise, McAdams was an expert at dissembling and deflection. His being raised in Alabama wasn't the only reason he was emboldened to support racist policies during the Trump years.
Jerry, almost all of them have a way, out, but they refuse or it is beyond their capacity to take it. IOW, they have a valid excuse for the what they've become as adults but for most of them it comes with a blind spot. It is sort of their inheritance, but much more a tax they mistakenly consider an asset. They endorse and defend what they were infected with, literally from birth.
Childrearing Beliefs Were Best Predictor of Trump Support ...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201702/childrearing-beliefs-were-best-predictor-trump-support
Childrearing Beliefs Were Best Predictor of Trump Support A poll with four weird questions helps explain Trump's surprising victory. Posted Feb 01, 2017
....People with an authoritarian mindset believe, first and foremost, in obedience to authority. So, of course, obedience is high on their list of ideal traits for a child; but obedience is also high on their list of ideal traits for people in general. Leaders, especially strong, confident leaders, are to be followed. Authoritarians also tend toward simplistic ways of thinking; things are black or white, right or wrong. If something is right for one person, it should be right for everyone and everyone should see it as right. They don’t tolerate ambiguity and have little taste for subtlety or dissenting opinions. To an authoritarian, the way to solve problems is to find a powerful, confident leader—a sort of superhero who claims in unambiguous language that he can solve your problems—and then follow that person...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits
A new report sheds light on the psychological basis for Trump's support.
Posted Dec 31, 2017
...1. Authoritarianism
Authoritarianism refers to the advocacy or enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom, and is commonly associated with a lack of concern for the opinions or needs of others. ... ...Those with the syndrome often display aggression toward outgroup members, submissiveness to authority, resistance to new experiences, and a rigid hierarchical view of society. The syndrome is often triggered by fear, making it easy for leaders who exaggerate threat or fear monger to gain their allegiance.
2. Social dominance orientation
Social dominance orientation (SDO)—which is distinct but related to authoritarian personality syndrome—refers to people who have a preference for the societal hierarchy of groups, specifically with a structure in which the high-status groups have dominance over the low-status ones. Those with SDO are typically dominant, tough-minded, and driven by self-interest....
...A 2016 survey study of 406 American adults published this year in the journal Personality and Individual Differences (see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886916310911 )
found that those who scored high on both SDO and authoritarianism were those who intended to vote for Trump in the election.
3. Prejudice
....While the dog whistles of the past were more subtle, Trump’s are sometimes shockingly direct. There’s no denying that he routinely appeals to bigoted supporters when he calls Muslims “dangerous” and Mexican immigrants “rapists” and “murderers,” often in a blanketed fashion. Perhaps unsurprisingly, a new study has shown that support for Trump is correlated with a standard scale of modern racism.
4. Intergroup contact
Intergroup contact refers to contact with members of groups that are outside one’s own, which has been experimentally shown to reduce prejudice. As such, it’s important to note that there is growing evidence that Trump’s white supporters have experienced significantly less contact with minorities than other Americans. For example, a 2016 study (see https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2822059 ) found that “…the racial and ethnic isolation of Whites at the zip-code level is one of the strongest predictors of Trump support.” This correlation persisted while controlling for dozens of other variables. In agreement with this finding, the same researchers found that support for Trump increased with the voters’ physical distance from the Mexican border....
Now, Richard, I am known for supporting what I post to the point of excess, to say the least! Do "even you" accept Dr. McAdams's accusation that I told him I thought he was racist, simply because he came from Alabama?
I predict you will continue to react to anything and everything you disagree with, similarly to the way Dr. McAdams did. I sincerely tried to get through to him, to appeal to his intellect, I really did.
John McAdams claimed to be an ardent advocate of free speech and certainly not racist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata_Shakur
....According to a New Jersey Police spokesperson, Assata Shakur was on her way to a "new hideout in Philadelphia" and "heading ultimately for Washington" and a book in the vehicle contained a list of potential BLA targets.[55] Assata Shakur testified that she was on her way to Baltimore for a job as a bar waitress.[67]
Assata Shakur, with gunshot wounds in both arms and a shoulder, was moved to Middlesex General Hospital under "heavy guard" and was reported to be in "serious condition"; Trooper Harper was wounded in the left shoulder, in "good" condition, and given a protective guard at the hospital.[55][65] Assata Shakur was interrogated and arraigned from her hospital bed,[68] and her medical care during this period is often alleged to have been "substandard".[9][69][70][71] She was transferred from Middlesex General Hospital in New Brunswick to Roosevelt Hospital in Edison after her lawyers obtained a court order from Judge John Bachman,[72] and then transferred to Middlesex County Workhouse a few weeks later.[73]
During an interview, Assata Shakur talked about her treatment from the police and medical staff at Middlesex General Hospital. She stated that the police were beating and choking her and "doing everything that they could possibly do as soon as the doctors or nurses would go outside".[74]
Criminal charges and dispositions
Between 1973 and 1977, in New York and New Jersey, Shakur was indicted ten times, resulting in seven different criminal trials. Shakur was charged with two bank robberies, the kidnapping of a Brooklyn heroin dealer, the attempted murder of two Queens police officers stemming from a January 23, 1973, failed ambush, and eight other felonies related to the Turnpike shootout.[36][75] Of these trials, three resulted in acquittals, one in a hung jury, one in a change of venue, one in a mistrial due to pregnancy, and one in a conviction; three indictments were dismissed without trial.[75]
In my last post, I wrote that I was in the unfamiliar position of supporting an opinion of Jim DiEugenio.
Consider whether Dr. McAdams would have considered a jury judging his guilt or innocence that consisted entirely of non-whites and predominantly of women, a "jury of his peers". However, Dr. McAdams was certainly worked up in favor of an all white, three quarters male jury's verdict against Assata Shakur, a jury selected from a pool of 140!
https://www.nytimes.com/1977/03/26/archives/joanne-chesimard-convicted-in-killing-of-jersey-trooper-mrs.html?searchResultPosition=2
...Convicted in Killing Of Jersey Trooper
March 26, 1977
Mural featuring FBI Most Wanted Terrorist removed at MU ...
https://www.fox6now.com/news/mural-featuring-fbi-most-wanted-terrorist-removed-at-mu-sorority-says-proper-research-wasnt-done
"Shakur is on the FBI's list of "Most Wanted Terrorists." John McAdams, an associate professor at Marquette University, says he wasn't expecting to see a mural featuring the fugitive and convicted ..."
After outcry, Marquette University removes campus mural of Assata Shakur
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/05/19/after-outcry-marquette-university-removes-assata-shakur-campus-mural/
"May 19, 2015 After outcry, Marquette University removes campus mural of Assata Shakur Joanne Chesimard, now known as Assata Shakur, in handcuffs and leg irons in January 1976. (Frank Hurley/New York Daily News..."
From early in these exchanges, I provided Dr. McAdams with a way out... first I pointed out with subtlety what I assumed an Harvard educated, poli-sci PhD, a teaching professor at the University level was likely to have known about his father, a member of the board of education of the 1960s segregated public school system in Lamar County, AL.
I invested the time in trying to influence Dr. McAdams, to inform other JFKfacts readers, after he protested on his blog the creation and mounting of a mural on a wall in a building on the Marquette Univ. campus, a mural he could not view because he was not allowed on campus at the time, owing to his suspension related to what, ironically, he claimed violated free speech rights!
First, for context, my recapping for Jean, on Dec. 18, the points I had tried to make to Dr. McAdams since Dec. 14. Jean Davison is from Louisiana, with roots in Mississippi.
https://jfkfacts.org/agencies-hint-they-may-try-to-block-jfk-declassification-in-2017/#comment-838459
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124567830_431e536a2c_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123511744_34dd71a6cc_c.jpg)
Vernon, AL, is 16 miles from the town Dr. McAdams was raised and taught high school in, Kennedy, AL. The Kennedy H.S. In 1987, Kennedy and rival Millport H.S. consolidated and the present day athletic field is named in honor of Dr. McAdams's father.:
Alabama High School Football History
www.ahsfhs.org/Teams2/teampage.asp?Team=South Lamar
South Lamar High School P.O. Box 309 Millport, AL 35576 Stadium: J.C. McAdams Field
https://jfkfacts.org/agencies-hint-they-may-try-to-block-jfk-declassification-in-2017/#comment-838422
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124565430_d094765d92_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123761311_0e3eebdcdb_b.jpg)
https://jfkfacts.org/agencies-hint-they-may-try-to-block-jfk-declassification-in-2017/#comment-839717
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123196612_4ea0792d3f_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123509974_9e9920831b_b.jpg)
Palo Alto Street Mural Artists Defend Inclusion of Assata Shakur
https://news.yahoo.com/palo-alto-street-mural-artists-002000629.html
"Palo Alto Street Mural Artists Defend Inclusion of Assata Shakur July 16, 2020, 8:20 PM Artists who included a controversial figure on their Black Lives Matter mural in downtown Palo Alto are now fighting to keep it there."
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Maybe take the politics to the nutty anti-Trump thread.
Agreed. At least take them out of the Dr. John McAdams thread on his passing.
Where were these charges when Dr. McAdams was alive? I never recall running across them. What seems to be the evidence against him? That he was born and raised in Alabama?
If these continue, I’ll have to see what comments I can make when Dr. Cyril Wecht passes away. Just kidding. Any claims I have to make against him I can make while he is alive. I don’t have to wait until he is dead before bring them up.
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Maybe take the politics to the nutty anti-Trump thread.
Agreed. At least take them out of the Dr. John McAdams thread on his passing.
Where were these charges when Dr. McAdams was alive? I never recall running across them. What seems to be the evidence against him? That he was born and raised in Alabama?
If these continue, I’ll have to see what comments I can make when Dr. Cyril Wecht passes away. Just kidding. Any claims I have to make against him I can make while he is alive. I don’t have to wait until he is dead before bring them up.
Except that Dr. McAdams's professional, academic life was devoted to the science of... P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S ...
He responded with this, despite that blacks were receiving an inferior, underfunded education in delapidated s-hole school buildings with substandard plumbing, their record setting scholastic sports achievements under reported, mainly in black newspapers, the record breaking sports statistics themselves consigned to newspaper clippings in old scrapbooks lost to history instead of in official record keeping reported widely of athletes of all white schools.
https://jfkfacts.org/agencies-hint-they-may-try-to-block-jfk-declassification-in-2017/#comment-840014
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125589195_b02e25165f.jpg)
This is from the 1977, NY Times article (linked in my last post) reporting the conviction in just one of ten prosecutions of the young black woman Dr. McAdams dismissed as "a terrorist", the other nine prosecutions unsuccessful for reasons I described in my last post.:
(Ironically, we're going to find out before the week is out if expert medical testimony only overcomes reasonable doubt for white criminal defendants!)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124709273_2c78e3a9a0_b.jpg)
So, the points are that Dr. McAdams was not always in favor of free speech / free expression on campus,
and Trump supporters always back the determinations of law enforcement, especially of the FBI, EXCEPT if Trump or his campaign are being investigated by LEO - FBI !
https://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2018/07/time-to-face-truth-on-mueller.html
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124828701_65e637bcec_z.jpg)
It took Trump to bring about the unexpected convergence of McAdams and DiEugenio supporting "Trump vs the Deep State", especially troubling considering both devoted their careers to influencing the inquiring minds of young students.
Speaking of "nutty", as you described it, Richard, what could be more nutty than the support of Trump by you, McAdams, and DiEugenio?
Trump suggests death penalty punishment for Comey, Page ...
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/trump-suggests-death-penalty-punishment-for-comey-page-strozk-and-mccabe/
May 23, 2019
"Trump suggests death penalty punishment for Comey, Page, Strzok and McCabe During his speech about bailing out farmers, President Donald Trump unleashed on his political opponents, saying that they..."
Trump Will Not Rule Out Death Penalty For Comey, McCabe ...
https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/trump-will-not-rule-death-penalty-comey-mccabe-treason
"President Donald Trump has not ruled out invoking the death penalty for the people who spied on his campaign in 2016. Speaking to reporters on Friday he directly accused FBI directors James Comey and Andrew McCabe and agents Peter Strzok and Lisa Page of treason. "Sir, the constitution says treason is punishable by death."