JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Anthony Frank on May 25, 2021, 08:09:34 AM

Title: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on May 25, 2021, 08:09:34 AM
Anyone who thinks Oswald was the lone assassin is a conspiracy theorist, because they think all of these people conspired to say JFK was shot from the front.

The first written reports from Dallas on November 22, 1963, stated, “He was shot at 12:30 p.m. today by an assassin who sent a rifle bullet crashing into his right temple,” and a broadcast by the U.S. State Department’s Voice of America stated, “A bullet struck his right temple while the Presidential motorcade was driving at the edge of downtown Dallas.”

In January 1977, Tom Robinson, a funeral home employee who witnessed most of President Kennedy’s autopsy and embalmed his corpse afterwards, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that during the embalming, he found a wound in the President’s right temple that was “very small,” measuring “a quarter of an inch.” Robinson stated that the wound could easily be “hidden by the hair.”

Secret Service Special Agent Clint Hill, who climbed onto the back of the President’s limousine within seconds of the fatal headshot, wrote in his official report on November 30, 1963: “As I lay over the top of the back seat, I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying in the seat.”

Hill testified to the Warren Commission on March 9, 1964, “The second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President’s head,” and he reiterated what was in his report, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car.”

Dr. Charles Carrico told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that when President Kennedy was being treated at Parkland Hospital, Dr. Ronald Jones and Dr. Malcolm Perry “took over the primary management” in the emergency room, where one of their objectives was to “assess how bad his head injury was.”

Dr. Ronald Jones testified to the Warren Commission that President Kennedy had “what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull.”

Dr. Malcolm Perry wrote in his hospital report on November 22, 1963 that the President had sustained “a large wound of the right posterior cranium,” and a few months later he testified that President Kennedy had “a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium.”

Parkland Nurse Pat Hutton, who assisted from the moment President Kennedy was brought in from the car until he was placed in a coffin, wrote in her report on November 22, 1963, “Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head.”

Her report states that a doctor asked her to “place a pressure dressing on the head wound,” and she wrote, “This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.”

The “summary” of medical reports from Parkland Hospital on November 22 states that Dr. Charles Carrico observed a head wound “in the occipital region of the skull . . . . Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding.”

The occipital region of the skull, which was referred to more than once by the doctors, is located at the back of the head.

Dr. Robert McClelland testified to the Assassination Records Review Board in 1998 that when he closely examined President Kennedy’s head, he could clearly see that a bullet “came out the back.”

Dr. McClelland also testified that while standing and holding a retractor, he had a “concentrated view” of the head, where the bullet “came out the back.”

He testified that he observed the wound, which was “mostly really in the occipital part of the skull,” for “an absolute minimum of five minutes” from a distance of “twelve to eighteen inches,” and he stated, “As I was looking at it, a fairly large portion of the cerebellum fell out of the skull. There was already some brain there, but during the tracheotomy more fell out and that was clearly cerebellum.”

Dr. McClelland testified that he “could look down into the skull . . . . There was nothing in the area where the cerebellum usually sits. Most of it was probably gone when I first began to look down into the wound, and then as I stood there, probably just maybe a minute after I came in, another large portion of it, which I thought – I remember thinking now, well, that’s the rest of the cerebellum, oozed out into the table.”

Thirty-four years earlier, in 1964, Dr. McClelland testified to the Warren Commission, “As I took the position at the head of the table . . . I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted . . . . You could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue, had been blasted out.”

Dr. Paul Peters testified to the Assassination Records Review Board in 1998 that the wound “was pretty far posteriorly” and the bullet had “gone out through the occiput . . . . I walked around right and looked in his head. You could look directly into the cranial vault and see cerebral injury to the cerebral cortex and I thought at the time to the cerebellum. So I know the hole was big enough to look into.”

In his Warren Commission testimony thirty-four years earlier, Dr. Peters stated that he observed “the large occipital wound,” which he said was “a large wound of exit . . . . There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.”

Nurse Diana Bowron, who went out to the Presidential limousine to assist in bringing President Kennedy into the hospital, testified to the Warren Commission that while the President was lying across Mrs. Kennedy’s knee, she “saw the condition” of “the back of his head,” which she testified was “very bad.” When a Warren Commission staff member asked for clarification on what she saw, she stated, “I just saw one large hole.”

Nurse Audrey Bell told the Assassination Records Review Board that “the right side of the President’s head and the top of his head were intact,” and she “had to ask Dr. Perry where the wound was.” He then “turned the President’s head slightly to the President’s anatomical left so that she could see a right posterior head wound, which she described as occipital.”

FBI Agent James Sibert, who was present at President Kennedy’s autopsy, submitted an affidavit to the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978 stating that “a large head wound” was located in the “back of the head,” where a “section of the skull bone” was “missing.”

Edward Reed, a radiology technician on duty when the X-rays were taken at Bethesda Naval Hospital, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that President Kennedy’s head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region.”

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill was summoned to the morgue “after completion of the autopsy and before the embalming” in order to “view the body and to witness the damage of the gunshot wounds,” and Hill again observed the wound located “on the right rear portion of the skull.”

Tom Robinson, the funeral home employee who witnessed the autopsy before embalming the body, told the Assassination Records Review Board that he “saw the brain removed from President Kennedy’s body,” and “a large percentage of it was gone ‘in the back.’” Robinson “described a large open head wound in the back of the President’s head.”

Within seconds of the fatal headshot, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill observed the gaping exit wound at the back of President Kennedy’s head, and witnesses all along the way observed the massive head wound until his corpse was prepared for burial. Virtually none of these witnesses placed the massive exit wound at the top of the head, or on the side of the head, and certainly not at the front of the head.

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Ray Mitcham on May 25, 2021, 02:03:05 PM
 Sorry, Anthony, but the witnesses you quote above were all wrong. Just ask any lone nutter. ::)
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Gerry Down on May 25, 2021, 03:42:00 PM
If JFK was shot from the front, Oswald still did it. JFK turned around to wave at the crowd and faced the TSBD and this is when Oswald shot him in the throat. Then a few seconds later JFK turned around again and Oswald shot him in the right temple which blasted out the right rear of his head. After this JFK stopped turning around. This would explain why the shells and Oswalds rifle were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.  The Zapruder film was obviously faked as it shows none of this.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on May 25, 2021, 11:45:48 PM
In an effort to cover up their role in assassinating President Kennedy, the CIA fabricated autopsy photos that place the massive exit wound at the “front” of President Kenney’s head instead of the “back” of his head, and they enlisted the three pathologists who performed the autopsy on President Kennedy to participate in the cover up.

In 1972, Dr. John K. Lattimer examined the photographs and X-rays purportedly from President Kennedy’s autopsy that are on file at the National Archives, and he testified to the Rockefeller Commission in 1975 that they show a “wound of entrance into the back of his skull” and a “large wound of exit on the front top of the President’s head” where the bullet “exited on the front of the head, just above the forehead.”

In February 1968, four years before Dr. Lattimer examined the autopsy material, Attorney General Ramsey Clark assembled a panel of four physicians to examine the autopsy photographs and X-rays, after which the “Clark Panel” issued a report stating that a bullet entered President Kennedy’s skull in the “occipital region,” producing a small wound measuring .23 inches by .59 inches. The bullet then “passed forward” to “explosively fracture the right frontal and parietal bones as it emerged from the head.”

In March 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations had their “Medical Panel” examine the autopsy photographs and listen to the testimony of President Kennedy’s three pathologists, after which the Medical Panel concluded, “The bullet exited in the top front area of the skull.”

The objective of the cover up was to maintain the official government position that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin who shot President Kennedy from behind, thus relieving the CIA of any culpability in the assassination.

A 1967 Secret Service document states that the autopsy photographs and X-rays “were in the custody and the possession of the United States Secret Service” from November 22, 1963 until April 26, 1965, during which time the CIA easily substituted bogus autopsy photographs.

Moving the massive exit wound to the front of the head was, however, a two-stage process.

The CIA first used fabricated autopsy photos in 1967 to support the pathologists’ autopsy report, which says absolutely nothing about the front of the head. It states that there was a “small occipital wound” at the back of President Kennedy’s head and that the bullet exited on the “right” side of the head, as opposed to the “front” of the head.

In January 1967, the Justice Department had President Kennedy’s three pathologists “examine the X-rays and photographs for the purpose of determining whether they are consistent with the autopsy report.” The Justice Department also prepared a document for the pathologists to sign stating that the autopsy X-rays and photographs show “a small wound” in the “back of the head” and a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” which “corroborates” the pathologists’ obviously fabricated autopsy report.

The three pathologists, all of whom were military officers, dutifully signed the Justice Department document.

The following year, 1968, autopsy photographs were fabricated to move the massive exit wound to the front of the head. The “Clark Panel” then examined them and confirmed that they show a small entrance wound at the back of the head and a massive exit wound at the front of the head, thus firming up the “official” position that President Kennedy was shot from behind.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on May 26, 2021, 02:00:52 AM
If JFK was shot from the front, Oswald still did it. JFK turned around to wave at the crowd and faced the TSBD and this is when Oswald shot him in the throat. Then a few seconds later JFK turned around again and Oswald shot him in the right temple which blasted out the right rear of his head. After this JFK stopped turning around. This would explain why the shells and Oswalds rifle were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.  The Zapruder film was obviously faked as it shows none of this.

JFK turned around? And that is how he ended up getting shot in the front of the head?

So, you believe the Zapruder film was faked and there was a vast conspiracy to say that he was shot in the back of the head.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Gerry Down on May 26, 2021, 02:47:27 AM
JFK turned around? And that is how he ended up getting shot in the front of the head?

So, you believe the Zapruder film was faked and there was a vast conspiracy to say that he was shot in the back of the head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on May 26, 2021, 09:48:50 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

OK. You were actually being sarcastic. You do not actually think that we have all the evidence that JFK was shot from the front (see my first post) because JFK simply turned around. You were just being sarcastic, which means you agree that JFK was shot from the front.

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Gerry Down on May 26, 2021, 09:57:29 PM
OK. You were actually being sarcastic. You do not actually think that we have all the evidence that JFK was shot from the front because JFK simply turned around. You were just being sarcastic, which means you agree that JFK was shot from the front.

I think he was shot twice from the back. I think the evidence is misleading that he was shot from the front. In the Zapruder film the exit wound is at the front of Kennedys head - this is strong evidence that he was shot from the back and an exit wound blasted out the top front of Kennedys head.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on May 27, 2021, 05:43:43 AM
I think he was shot twice from the back. I think the evidence is misleading that he was shot from the front. In the Zapruder film the exit wound is at the front of Kennedys head - this is strong evidence that he was shot from the back and an exit wound blasted out the top front of Kennedys head.

I see. So you are a conspiracy theorist in that you believe everyone I cited in my first post conspired to say that JFK was shot from the front.

And you think all the following people were part of the conspiracy to say he was shot from the front.

From my book:

Concerning President Kennedy’s throat wound, Parkland Hospital doctors were adamant that it was a wound of entry. Dr. Paul Peters testified to the Warren Commission, “We saw the wound of entry in the throat.”

Dr. Robert McClelland testified, “The wound in the neck, the anterior part of the neck, was an entrance wound.”

Dr. Charles Carrico, who used a “laryngoscope” to look down into President Kennedy’s throat, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations, “There was some injury to the trachea behind it,” and the bullet “must have been going front to back.”

Dr. Marion Jenkins wrote up a report at 4:30 p.m. on November 22 stating that Doctors Baxter, Perry, and McClelland “began a tracheotomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube” because President Kennedy had sustained “obvious tracheal and chest damage.”

Additionally, Dr. Malcolm Perry, who performed the tracheotomy, testified to the Assassination Records Review Board in 1998 that the neck wound “looked like an entrance wound and the bullet appeared to be coming at him,” and thirty-five years earlier, at a press conference on the day of the assassination, Dr. Perry stated, “There was an entrance wound in the neck,” and Perry stated that the bullet “appeared to be coming at him.”

Contrary to the autopsy report claiming that a bullet struck JFK in the back of the neck, eyewitnesses clearly saw the bullet strike President Kennedy considerably farther down on his back.

Secret Service Special Agent Clint Hill, who had been summoned to the morgue to witness “the damage of the gunshot wounds,” wrote in his report that he “observed a wound about six inches down from the neckline on the back just to the right of the spinal column.”

Hill told the Warren Commission the same thing, testifying, “I saw an opening in the back, about six inches below the neckline to the right-hand side of the spinal column.”

Even the lead pathologist, James Humes, first acknowledged that the wound was “below the shoulders.” FBI Agents Sibert and O’Neill wrote in their report that during the autopsy, Dr. Humes “located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole, which was below the shoulders.” Humes probed the wound with his finger, and “it was determined that the trajectory of the missile entering at this point had entered at a downward position of 45 to 60 degrees.”

And one of the Secret Service Agents in the Presidential follow-up car, Special Agent Glen Bennett, wrote in his report on November 22 that after the first shot, he heard another shot and “saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder.”  Bennett wrote four inches down from the “shoulder,” not four inches down from the neck.

When Humes, the lead pathologist, testified to the Warren Commission, he totally contradicted what he and the FBI Agents saw during the autopsy. Humes claimed the wound in the front of the neck is “physically lower” than an alleged “point of entrance” in the back of the neck. The autopsy report that Humes signed similarly states that a bullet “traversed the soft tissues . . . of the neck . . . and made its exit through the anterior surface [front] of the neck.”

Originally, after lead pathologist James J. Humes acknowledged there was a back wound “below the shoulders,” the throat wound was being explained away as an exit wound for a bullet “fragment” that came from an alleged rear headshot.

In the Warren Commission’s Executive Session on January 27, 1964, the Commission’s General Counsel, Lee Rankin, stated, “We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragment came out the front of the neck.”

Rankin continued, “It seems quite apparent now, since we have the picture of where the bullet entered in the back, that the bullet entered below the shoulder blade to the right of the backbone, which is below the place where the picture shows the bullet came out in the neckband of the shirt in front.”

Rankin repeated that according to the autopsy report, there were “bullet fragments” from an alleged rear headshot, one of which “came out in part through the neck.”

Rankin, who had “the picture of where the bullet entered in the back,” could clearly see that President Kennedy’s back wound was “below the shoulder blade,” and he could see that the back wound was below President Kennedy’s throat wound.

The public never saw the autopsy report on which Rankin based his statements, and the CIA saw to it that this Warren Commission Executive Session would remain classified for quite some time. The National Archives sent a letter to the CIA in 1974 concerning the transcript of the “executive session of January 27, 1964,” stating, “The Central Intelligence Agency requested us to withhold this transcript from research in a letter of December 22, 1972.”

The media were also touting the story that a bullet fragment caused the throat wound. A Washington Post story on December 18, 1963, twenty-six days after the assassination, stated that the “as yet unofficial report of pathologists” says a bullet “fragment” from an alleged rear head shot had been “deflected” and had “passed out the front of the throat.”

Since the official story was that he had been shot from behind, and everyone could see the back wound was lower down on the back, the only possible way to explain away President Kennedy’s throat wound without acknowledging that it was an entrance wound was to claim that it was an exit wound for a bullet fragment from an alleged rear head shot.

The autopsy report would not be released to the public as a Warren Commission exhibit until ten months after the assassination, by which time people would accept the new version of a bullet striking President Kennedy in the back of the neck. The throat wound would then be easily explained away as an exit wound, and the fragment story would be ancient history.

The “Secret Service” finally gave an autopsy report to the FBI on December 23, 1963,  more than a month after the assassination, and on the same day, the “Secret Service” gave an entirely different autopsy report to the Warren Commission. Lee Rankin was apparently looking at this other version of the autopsy report during the Warren Commission’s Executive Session in January when he said it had “an explanation” that “probably a fragment came out the front of the neck.”

The autopsy report that was given to the FBI eventually became the “official” autopsy report. It states that a bullet entered “above the scapula”  (otherwise known as the shoulder blade), which directly contradicts the autopsy report stating that a bullet “entered below the shoulder blade.”

To repeat, the CIA killed President Kennedy as part of their effort to control the government. It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 01, 2021, 11:19:34 PM
I think he was shot twice from the back. I think the evidence is misleading that he was shot from the front. In the Zapruder film the exit wound is at the front of Kennedys head - this is strong evidence that he was shot from the back and an exit wound blasted out the top front of Kennedys head.

Do you believe everyone I cited in my first post conspired to say that JFK was shot from the front?

Do you believe they all lied when they said the back of his head was blown off?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 02, 2021, 02:23:39 AM
There is clear and concise documentation of two different autopsy reports being sent over to the National Archives.

Assistant Secret Service Director Thomas J. Kelley wrote a “Memorandum for File” in 1969 stating that the National Archives had records of receiving an “original” autopsy report in 1966 and a second “original” autopsy report in 1967.

Kelley’s memorandum states that when the “inventory” of items was turned over to the Archives in “October 1966,” it included the “original” of the “complete autopsy protocol of President Kennedy.” It also states that the Secret Service “forwarded to the Archivist the original autopsy protocol on October 3, 1967,” which is the official autopsy report on file as Warren Commission Exhibit No. 387.

Assistant Secret Service Director Kelley noted a “discrepancy” in having two different original autopsy reports. Kelley wrote that they “were unable to resolve this discrepancy” and that “some of the items on the inventory were not in the possession of the Archives.”

Kelley’s 1969 memorandum also states that “articles described in Item No. 9 . . . cannot be found in the Archives.”

According to a 1970 National Archives memorandum, the “complete autopsy protocol of President Kennedy,” the first one sent over in 1966, was listed “under Item 9,”  meaning this particular “original” autopsy report was missing from the Archives.

Assistant Secret Service Director Kelley’s 1969 memorandum states, “A careful search was made in the Archives to ascertain what happened to the articles described in Item No. 9.”

Kelley was “assured” that “the Archivist had made a thorough search of all of the material on hand to make sure that the material in question had not been received by the Archivist at another time or under other circumstances.”

Kelley’s 1969 memorandum and the National Archives 1970 memorandum prove conclusively that there were two different autopsy reports, both of which were obviously fabricated to cover up the conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy, and one of those autopsy reports has disappeared from the National Archives.

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 03, 2021, 06:27:39 AM
Let's recap.

In the Warren Commission’s Executive Session on January 27, 1964, the Commission’s General Counsel, Lee Rankin, stated, “We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragment came out the front of the neck.”

Rankin continued, “It seems quite apparent now, since we have the picture of where the bullet entered in the back, that the bullet entered below the shoulder blade to the right of the backbone, which is below the place where the picture shows the bullet came out in the neckband of the shirt in front.”

Rankin repeated that according to the autopsy report, there were “bullet fragments” from an alleged rear headshot, one of which “came out in part through the neck.”

Rankin, who had “the picture of where the bullet entered in the back,” could clearly see that President Kennedy’s back wound was “below the shoulder blade,” and he could see that the back wound was below President Kennedy’s throat wound.

The pictures on which Rankin based his statements were the real deal.

Autopsy photos were clearly fabricated to place the backwound farther up on JFK's back in order to support the new autopsy report stating that a bullet entered “above the scapula,” otherwise known as the shoulder blade.

JFK was shot from the front. Case Closed.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Dan O'meara on June 03, 2021, 12:08:26 PM
Let's recap.

In the Warren Commission’s Executive Session on January 27, 1964, the Commission’s General Counsel, Lee Rankin, stated, “We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragment came out the front of the neck.”

Rankin continued, “It seems quite apparent now, since we have the picture of where the bullet entered in the back, that the bullet entered below the shoulder blade to the right of the backbone, which is below the place where the picture shows the bullet came out in the neckband of the shirt in front.”

Rankin repeated that according to the autopsy report, there were “bullet fragments” from an alleged rear headshot, one of which “came out in part through the neck.”

Rankin, who had “the picture of where the bullet entered in the back,” could clearly see that President Kennedy’s back wound was “below the shoulder blade,” and he could see that the back wound was below President Kennedy’s throat wound.

The pictures on which Rankin based his statements were the real deal.

Autopsy photos were clearly fabricated to place the backwound farther up on JFK's back in order to support the new autopsy report stating that a bullet entered “above the scapula,” otherwise known as the shoulder blade.

JFK was shot from the front. Case Closed.

Case Closed??

Where was the front shot taken from and at what z-frame?
What was the trajectory of the bullet through the throat?
How many bullets were in JFK's body at the time of his death (at least two I presume)?
Was the Z-film a fabrication?

And lots of other questions but let's keep it that for now
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 03, 2021, 09:40:42 PM
Case Closed??

Where was the front shot taken from and at what z-frame?
What was the trajectory of the bullet through the throat?
How many bullets were in JFK's body at the time of his death (at least two I presume)?
Was the Z-film a fabrication?

And lots of other questions but let's keep it that for now

The evidence that he was shot from the front is irrefutable. See my first post and Reply #8 for the irrefutable evidence that he was shot from the front.

You, Dan, posit that he could not have been shot from the front because we do not know "where was the front shot taken from and at what z-frame."

You, Dan, posit that he could not have been shot from the front because we do not know "the trajectory of the bullet through the throat."

You, Dan, posit that he could not have been shot from the front because we do not know "how many bullets were in JFK's body at the time of his death.

I could not care less about the Z-film and whether or not it has been altered. To repeat, the evidence that JFK was shot from the front is irrefutable.

There were three assassins. Two were KGB officers inside the CIA and one was a CIA “double agent” (an American CIA officer who knowingly and willingly worked for the KGB).

JFK was shot twice from the front and once from the back.

It’s all in my book.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 04, 2021, 10:39:22 AM
Anyone who thinks Oswald was the lone assassin is a conspiracy theorist, because they think all of these people conspired to say JFK was shot from the front.


Kennedy was shot from the rear. Two strikes. One in the base of the neck. The other just above the EOP. Those at Parkland who reported seeing a large hole in the back of the head were mistaken. The autopsy photos and X-rays do not lie.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Mike Orr on June 04, 2021, 09:38:27 PM
So everyone at Parkland was wrong about the locations of the wounds on JFK . I can't blame those who go by the autopsy and the Warren report . After all there was nothing to hide about the placements of the wounds , was there ? Surely the Parkland Dr's. and nurses would not lie about where they saw the wounds on JFK that day ! You can always trust people who say that these files can not be seen for 75 years which of course would leave most of us to be dead by that time . Whether most people trust the govt. or not makes no difference as to the reliability of their claims . For me to take the word of someone on this forum and turn it into a fact of what happened on Nov. 22nd 1963 , is at best , just hearsay as it would not make a very strong case in a court of law . I'm 72 yrs. old and the Assassinations of JFK , MLK, RFK and Malcolm X had a big impact on my life as well as the lives of so many . One group is lying and the other group is telling the truth . Why can't politics work for the masses instead of just the chosen few ?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 05, 2021, 01:56:46 AM
Those at Parkland who reported seeing a large hole in the back of the head were mistaken. The autopsy photos and X-rays do not lie.

The pathologists’ autopsy report says absolutely nothing about the front of the head.

Yet, there are autopsy photos and X-rays that show a “large wound of exit on the front top of the President’s head” where the bullet “exited on the front of the head, just above the forehead.”

In 1972, Dr. John K. Lattimer examined the photographs and X-rays purportedly from President Kennedy’s autopsy that are on file at the National Archives, and he testified to the Rockefeller Commission in 1975 that they show a “wound of entrance into the back of his skull” and a “large wound of exit on the front top of the President’s head” where the bullet “exited on the front of the head, just above the forehead.”

In February 1968, four years before Dr. Lattimer examined the autopsy material, Attorney General Ramsey Clark assembled a panel of four physicians to examine the autopsy photographs and X-rays, after which the “Clark Panel” issued a report stating that a bullet entered President Kennedy’s skull in the “occipital region,” producing a small wound measuring .23 inches by .59 inches. The bullet then “passed forward” to “explosively fracture the right frontal and parietal bones as it emerged from the head.”

In March 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations had their “Medical Panel” examine the autopsy photographs and listen to the testimony of President Kennedy’s three pathologists, after which the Medical Panel concluded, “The bullet exited in the top front area of the skull.”

Moving the massive exit wound to the front of the head was, however, a two-stage process.

In 1967, autopsy photos were used to support the pathologists’ autopsy report, which, again, [b}says absolutely nothing about the front of the head[/b]. It states that the bullet exited on the “right” side of the head, as opposed to the “front” of the head.

In January 1967, the Justice Department had President Kennedy’s three pathologists “examine the X-rays and photographs for the purpose of determining whether they are consistent with the autopsy report.” The Justice Department also prepared a document for the pathologists to sign stating that the autopsy X-rays and photographs show “a small wound” in the “back of the head” and a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” which “corroborates” the pathologists’ autopsy report.

The three pathologists, all of whom were military officers, dutifully signed the Justice Department document.

The following year, 1968, autopsy photographs were fabricated to move the massive exit wound to the front of the head. The “Clark Panel” then examined them and confirmed that they show a small entrance wound at the back of the head and a massive exit wound at the front of the head, thus firming up the “official” position that President Kennedy was shot from behind.

The objective of the cover up was to maintain the official government position that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin who shot President Kennedy from behind, thus relieving the CIA of any culpability in the assassination.

A 1967 Secret Service document states that the autopsy photographs and X-rays “were in the custody and the possession of the United States Secret Service” from November 22, 1963, until April 26, 1965, during which time the CIA easily substituted bogus autopsy photographs.

If the autopsy photographs and X-rays are authentic, then the doctors and nurses at Parkland Hospital could not see a massive exit wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head, and the pathologists who performed the autopsy could not see a massive exit wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head.

And what ever happened to those autopsy photographs and X-rays that show a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” as opposed to the “front” of the head?

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y


Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 05, 2021, 02:14:39 AM
The pathologists’ autopsy report says absolutely nothing about the front of the head.

Yet, there are autopsy photos and X-rays that show a “large wound of exit on the front top of the President’s head” where the bullet “exited on the front of the head, just above the forehead.”

In 1972, Dr. John K. Lattimer examined the photographs and X-rays purportedly from President Kennedy’s autopsy that are on file at the National Archives, and he testified to the Rockefeller Commission in 1975 that they show a “wound of entrance into the back of his skull” and a “large wound of exit on the front top of the President’s head” where the bullet “exited on the front of the head, just above the forehead.”

In February 1968, four years before Dr. Lattimer examined the autopsy material, Attorney General Ramsey Clark assembled a panel of four physicians to examine the autopsy photographs and X-rays, after which the “Clark Panel” issued a report stating that a bullet entered President Kennedy’s skull in the “occipital region,” producing a small wound measuring .23 inches by .59 inches. The bullet then “passed forward” to “explosively fracture the right frontal and parietal bones as it emerged from the head.”

In March 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations had their “Medical Panel” examine the autopsy photographs and listen to the testimony of President Kennedy’s three pathologists, after which the Medical Panel concluded, “The bullet exited in the top front area of the skull.”

Moving the massive exit wound to the front of the head was, however, a two-stage process.

In 1967, autopsy photos were used to support the pathologists’ autopsy report, which, again, [b}says absolutely nothing about the front of the head[/b]. It states that the bullet exited on the “right” side of the head, as opposed to the “front” of the head.

In January 1967, the Justice Department had President Kennedy’s three pathologists “examine the X-rays and photographs for the purpose of determining whether they are consistent with the autopsy report.” The Justice Department also prepared a document for the pathologists to sign stating that the autopsy X-rays and photographs show “a small wound” in the “back of the head” and a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” which “corroborates” the pathologists’ autopsy report.

The three pathologists, all of whom were military officers, dutifully signed the Justice Department document.

The following year, 1968, autopsy photographs were fabricated to move the massive exit wound to the front of the head. The “Clark Panel” then examined them and confirmed that they show a small entrance wound at the back of the head and a massive exit wound at the front of the head, thus firming up the “official” position that President Kennedy was shot from behind.

The objective of the cover up was to maintain the official government position that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin who shot President Kennedy from behind, thus relieving the CIA of any culpability in the assassination.

A 1967 Secret Service document states that the autopsy photographs and X-rays “were in the custody and the possession of the United States Secret Service” from November 22, 1963, until April 26, 1965, during which time the CIA easily substituted bogus autopsy photographs.

If the autopsy photographs and X-rays are authentic, then the doctors and nurses at Parkland Hospital could not see a massive exit wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head, and the pathologists who performed the autopsy could not see a massive exit wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head.

And what ever happened to those autopsy photographs and X-rays that show a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” as opposed to the “front” of the head?

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y

The bullet did exit the front of his head, high in the forehead above the right eye. The large wound extends back from that, in the temporal/parietal region. The exit wound was never moved to the front. It was always there. The autopsy photos and X-rays do not lie. They were confirmed as being authentic and unaltered by two separate panels of experts working for the HSCA and well as by the photographer who took the photos and the Radiologist responsible for the X-rays.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 05, 2021, 02:21:35 AM

And what ever happened to those autopsy photographs and X-rays that show a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” as opposed to the “front” of the head?


The autopsy photos and X-Rays do show a massive wound on the right side of the head. The X-rays are a bit hard to interpret though because the portable X-machine that they were using was somewhat primitive and was only used to locate any bullets or fragments that might have remained in the body. CT Pat Speer does a very good job of explaining the machine and the X-Rays on his site.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 05, 2021, 03:38:22 AM

If the autopsy photographs and X-rays are authentic,......


The autopsy photographs were authenticated by the HSCA and eventually computer power which only became available much later, indisputably proved their authenticity.

A lot of the autopsy photos were taken slightly apart in stereoscopic pairs and these images can be combined into one rotating image and if even one of the corresponding pixels shares a different depth map then we will no longer have a smooth rotation, which is impossible to recreate by hand and therefore what you see in the following images is PRECISELY what was photographed at the autopsy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxH6dktC/JFKAutopsy-Morph.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HWwsN98Y/JFKBOHlatest-700.gif)

The earliest eyewitnesses all describe the EXACT same injury as we see in the Zapruder film.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPK3H8gF/dealey-plaza-eyewitness-1st-day-zapruder.gif)

Mary Moorman's photo captured a fraction of a second after the headshot graphically shows the same torn scalp shape as seen in the autopsy photos. Another example of independent events with a 100% corroboration.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MG9p96ny/matching-Moorman-with-autopsy-photo.gif)

Sorry Anthony, but it's all over red rover and you didn't even have to buy a book to learn the truth.

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 05, 2021, 06:21:02 AM
The autopsy photographs were authenticated by the HSCA and eventually computer power which only became available much later, indisputably proved their authenticity.

A lot of the autopsy photos were taken slightly apart in stereoscopic pairs and these images can be combined into one rotating image and if even one of the corresponding pixels shares a different depth map then we will no longer have a smooth rotation, which is impossible to recreate by hand and therefore what you see in the following images is PRECISELY what was photographed at the autopsy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxH6dktC/JFKAutopsy-Morph.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HWwsN98Y/JFKBOHlatest-700.gif)

The earliest eyewitnesses all describe the EXACT same injury as we see in the Zapruder film.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPK3H8gF/dealey-plaza-eyewitness-1st-day-zapruder.gif)

Mary Moorman's photo captured a fraction of a second after the headshot graphically shows the same torn scalp shape as seen in the autopsy photos. Another example of independent events with a 100% corroboration.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MG9p96ny/matching-Moorman-with-autopsy-photo.gif)

Sorry Anthony, but it's all over red rover and you didn't even have to buy a book to learn the truth.

JohnM

You really are working for the CIA, aren't you?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 05, 2021, 02:38:42 PM
The bullet did exit the front of his head, high in the forehead above the right eye. The large wound extends back from that, in the temporal/parietal region. The exit wound was never moved to the front. It was always there. The autopsy photos and X-rays do not lie. They were confirmed as being authentic and unaltered by two separate panels of experts working for the HSCA and well as by the photographer who took the photos and the Radiologist responsible for the X-rays.

Dr. Ronald Jones could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He saw “what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull.”

Dr. Malcolm Perry could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He saw “a large wound of the right posterior cranium,” and he described it as “a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium.”

Parkland Nurse Pat Hutton, who assisted from the moment President Kennedy was brought in from the car until he was placed in a coffin, could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. She saw that “Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head,” a wound that she described as a “massive opening on the back of the head.”

Dr. Charles Carrico could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He observed a head wound “in the occipital region of the skull” through which “blood and brain were extruding.”

Dr. Robert McClelland could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He had a “concentrated view” of the head and could clearly see that a bullet “came out the back.”

Dr. McClelland could see that “the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted,” and he could see that “probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue, had been blasted out.”

Dr. Paul Peters could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He saw that the wound “was pretty far posteriorly,” and the bullet had “gone out through the occiput.”

Dr. Peters could see “the large occipital wound,” which he said was “a large wound of exit.”

Nurse Diana Bowron, who went out to the Presidential limousine to assist in bringing President Kennedy into the hospital, could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. She saw that “the condition” of “the back of his head” was “very bad,” and when a Warren Commission staff member asked for clarification on what she saw, she stated, “I just saw one large hole.”

FBI Agent James Sibert, who was present at President Kennedy’s autopsy, could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He saw “a large head wound” located in the “back of the head,” where a “section of the skull bone” was “missing.”

Edward Reed, a radiology technician on duty when the X-rays were taken at Bethesda Naval Hospital, could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He saw “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region.”

Tom Robinson, the funeral home employee who witnessed the autopsy before embalming the body, could not see a wound at the front of President Kennedy’s head. He saw “ a large open head wound in the back of the President’s head.”

Bogus autopsy photos do not change what all these people saw.

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 05, 2021, 07:05:24 PM
Dr. Robert McClelland testified, “The wound in the neck, the anterior part of the neck, was an entrance wound.”

McClelland never saw the small wound in the throat. The tracheostomy had already been done before he entered the operating room.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Dan O'meara on June 05, 2021, 11:16:52 PM
It is clear in the clip below the first movement of JFK's head at the moment of the head shot is forward.
His chin is resting on his chest just before the shot. The force of the shot propels his head forward but, as his chin is resting on his chest,  his head has nowhere to go and it is this that causes the "back and to the left" motion (IMO)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RFV4RpQQ/Head-Shot-close.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 06, 2021, 12:16:18 AM
So, Doctors Jones and Perry, who “took over the primary management” in the emergency room where one of their objectives was to “assess how bad his head injury was,” could not actually see “what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull.”

Doctors Jones and Perry could not actually see “a large wound of the right posterior cranium,” and they could not see that President Kennedy had “a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium.”

Seeing as how Doctors Jones and Perry “took over the primary management” in the emergency room and they were supposed to “assess how bad his head injury was,” they must have been grossly incompetent to ignore a massive opening on the side of the head.

The grossly incompetent doctors lied about the wound at the back of the head. They were clearly part of the conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front.

Parkland Nurse Pat Hutton was asked to “place a pressure dressing on the head wound,” but it “was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.” She obviously saw "the very back of the head," but she was clearly lying because the wound was actually on the side of the head.

Hutton was clearly part of the conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front.

Dr. Charles Carrico clearly lied when he claimed that he observed that “blood and brain were extruding” from a head wound “in the occipital region of the skull.”

Dr. Charles Carrico was clearly part of the conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front. He was not mistaken. He was a “shot from the front” conspirator, who thought he could gloss over what he did by changing his story in 1992.

I could go on, but you have me convinced that there was a massive conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front. And it all started with Secret Service Special Agent Clint Hill, who clearly lied when he wrote in his report that he saw that “a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone.”

Now that you have me convinced of the massive conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front, which, of course, is why none of these witnesses said anything about a massive wound on the side of the head, can you tell me why everyone engaged in this conspiracy?

And since Merv Griffin stopped doing his show in 1986 and has since died, I will take this opportunity to plug my book, which is meticulously sourced and rife with documentation from beginning to end and lays out the most shocking information that has ever come forth on corruption in the CIA and the United States government.

Click the link.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Robert Reeves on June 06, 2021, 12:26:16 AM
JFK was shot from the front alright. But squabbling about if you can see it in 312/313 ... blah blah that is going to be argued until the effing cows come home.

JFK was shot in the chin area approximately z228-z233. He was, also, shot prior by the same person, or their accomplice, somewhere in the sequence behind the sign.

(https://i.postimg.cc/250FhDjW/completed-dual-overlay.gif)

Projectile skims right sleeve and strikes the chin, sending JFK's towards Jackie, the left. Boom!

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtsC89Zk/index-finger1.gif)

Just follow the direction of JFK's left hand index finger! that's who did it! that's where it came from.






Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 06, 2021, 12:50:44 AM
Uh, oh Jerry Organ!

The conspiracy to eliminate the massive wound on the side of his head has once again made itself manifest.

In 1972, Dr. John K. Lattimer examined the photographs and X-rays purportedly from President Kennedy’s autopsy that are on file at the National Archives, and he testified to the Rockefeller Commission in 1975 that they show a “large wound of exit on the front top of the President’s head” where the bullet “exited on the front of the head, just above the forehead.”

In February 1968, four years before Dr. Lattimer examined the autopsy material, Attorney General Ramsey Clark assembled a panel of four physicians to examine the autopsy photographs and X-rays, after which the “Clark Panel” issued a report stating that the bullet “passed forward” to “explosively fracture the right frontal and parietal bones as it emerged from the head.”

In March 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations had their “Medical Panel” examine the autopsy photographs and listen to the testimony of President Kennedy’s three pathologists, after which the Medical Panel concluded, “The bullet exited in the top front area of the skull.”

And look how President Kennedy’s three pathologists have been enlisted to cover up the fact that he had a massive wound on the side of his head. It was in the autopsy report, but now we find that “the bullet exited in the top front area of the skull.”

The autopsy report says absolutely nothing about the front of the head.

Oh, please, Jerry Organ, save us from this massive conspiracy to eliminate the gaping wound on the side of the head.

And to anyone else reading this post, check out my book, which lays out the most shocking information that has ever come forth on corruption in the CIA and the United States government.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Dan O'meara on June 06, 2021, 01:38:56 AM
Larry SPersonivan said to the Select Committee:
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
    "The deposit of momentum from the bullet is not sufficient to cause
     any dramatic movement in any direction. It would have a very slight
     movement, assuming that the bullet hit him in the back of the head.
     It would have a slight movement toward the front, which would very
     rapidly be damped by the connection of the neck with the body."

It's been proposed that a neuromuscular reaction, the temporary cavity left behind by a bullet or "jet effect" (or a combination therefore) may account for the rearward/leftward head recoil.

"The deposit of momentum from the bullet is not sufficient to cause
 any dramatic movement in any direction. It would have a very slight
 movement, assuming that the bullet hit him in the back of the head."


This cannot be reconciled with the massive amount of damage done to JFK's skull (as shown in John Mytton's graphic Gifs), portions of which fly off at tremendous speed.
Immense forces are required to do this amount of damage and must be reflected in the movement of JFK's head.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 06, 2021, 05:46:05 AM
I will take the multitude of eyewitness descriptions (see my first post) over fabricated autopsy photos and the pathologists cover up any day.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 06, 2021, 06:26:00 AM
Jackie: 'Top, behind the forehead'

You know; the witness who had the best seat in the house.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 06, 2021, 10:51:48 AM
So, Doctors Jones and Perry, who “took over the primary management” in the emergency room where one of their objectives was to “assess how bad his head injury was,” could not actually see “what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull.”

Doctors Jones and Perry could not actually see “a large wound of the right posterior cranium,” and they could not see that President Kennedy had “a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium.”

Seeing as how Doctors Jones and Perry “took over the primary management” in the emergency room and they were supposed to “assess how bad his head injury was,” they must have been grossly incompetent to ignore a massive opening on the side of the head.

The grossly incompetent doctors lied about the wound at the back of the head. They were clearly part of the conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front.

Parkland Nurse Pat Hutton was asked to “place a pressure dressing on the head wound,” but it “was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.” She obviously saw "the very back of the head," but she was clearly lying because the wound was actually on the side of the head.

Hutton was clearly part of the conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front.

Dr. Charles Carrico clearly lied when he claimed that he observed that “blood and brain were extruding” from a head wound “in the occipital region of the skull.”

Dr. Charles Carrico was clearly part of the conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front. He was not mistaken. He was a “shot from the front” conspirator, who thought he could gloss over what he did by changing his story in 1992.

I could go on, but you have me convinced that there was a massive conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front. And it all started with Secret Service Special Agent Clint Hill, who clearly lied when he wrote in his report that he saw that “a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone.”

Now that you have me convinced of the massive conspiracy to say that he was shot from the front, which, of course, is why none of these witnesses said anything about a massive wound on the side of the head, can you tell me why everyone engaged in this conspiracy?

And since Merv Griffin stopped doing his show in 1986 and has since died, I will take this opportunity to plug my book, which is meticulously sourced and rife with documentation from beginning to end and lays out the most shocking information that has ever come forth on corruption in the CIA and the United States government.

Click the link.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y

Hilarious, when you closely examine the "back of head" eyewitnesses there is absolutely zero corroboration on where they thought they saw the wound, the prosecution would rip these eyewitnesses a new one....

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jzY8kpT/back-of-head-eyewitnesses.gif)

Whereas all the authenticated physical evidence is actually corroborated by a number of Parkland staff along with a stack of civilians.

(https://i.postimg.cc/yY9f9jZw/alotofevidence2.jpg)

Btw waving your hand and proclaiming the autopsy evidence as an inconvenient truth is really poor form and does nothing to promote your case, how about proving that the rotating morphs which I posted are based on fake images and tell us how they created two views which can be combined into mathematically perfect stereoscopic images?

(https://i.postimg.cc/HWwsN98Y/JFKBOHlatest-700.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yxH6dktC/JFKAutopsy-Morph.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Ray Mitcham on June 06, 2021, 03:34:53 PM
The doctors at Parkland were so inefficient they couldn't see the massive wound on the top of the head. They saw a hole the size of an orange a behind the right ear, and even got the fact that they saw cerebellum coming out of the wound wrong. How did these guys get their degrees?

Ignore the facts of the case, and just judge dodgy photos provided by the authorities.

John, please show us how you know the photos are of JFK.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 06, 2021, 06:10:22 PM
The doctors at Parkland were so inefficient they couldn't see the massive wound on the top of the head. They saw a hole the size of an orange a behind the right ear, and even got the fact that they saw cerebellum coming out of the wound wrong. How did these guys get their degrees?

Ignore the facts of the case, and just judge dodgy photos provided by the authorities.

John, please show us how you know the photos are of JFK.

The Parkland doctors were not focussed on performing an autopsy. They were primarily focussed on reviving Kennedy. They hadn't even turned him over, FFS.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 06, 2021, 06:23:01 PM
The Parkland doctors were not focussed on performing an autopsy. They were primarily focussed on reviving Kennedy. They hadn't even turned him over, FFS.

But Tom Robinson, one of the embalmers also saw the massive hole in the back of the head close up. In fact he was involved in filling it up with rubber. So, tell us why what he saw wasn't there in reality?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Dan O'meara on June 06, 2021, 07:23:44 PM
It is clear in the clip below that, not only is the initial movement of JFK's head forward at the moment of impact, but the resultant wound is a massive 'crater' in the top of his head (as per the images posted by John Mytton.)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RFV4RpQQ/Head-Shot-close.gif) (https://postimages.org/)

The Z-film and the autopsy pics are in perfect accord. Arguing that all these images were altered or that testimony takes precedent over the actual images of the injury is just Tinfoil nonsense.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 07, 2021, 09:29:37 PM
It is clear in the clip below that, not only is the initial movement of JFK's head forward at the moment of impact, but the resultant wound is a massive 'crater' in the top of his head (as per the images posted by John Mytton.)

Just as the autopsy report says nothing about the front of the head, the autopsy report  says nothing about the top of the head.

And in 1967, after the Justice Department had the pathologists “examine the X-rays and photographs for the purpose of determining whether they are consistent with the autopsy report,” the pathologists  signed a document stating that the autopsy photos show a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” which “corroborates” the pathologists’ autopsy report.

So, the massive exit wound was on the side of the head.

No wait! The massive exit wound was at the top of the head.

Or the massive exit wound was at the front of the head.

The massive exit wound can be anywhere except at the rear of the head.

KGB officers inside the CIA assassinated President Kennedy. It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Dan O'meara on June 07, 2021, 11:13:20 PM
Just as the autopsy report says nothing about the front of the head, the autopsy report  says nothing about the top of the head.

And in 1967, after the Justice Department had the pathologists “examine the X-rays and photographs for the purpose of determining whether they are consistent with the autopsy report,” the pathologists  signed a document stating that the autopsy photos show a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” which “corroborates” the pathologists’ autopsy report.

So, the massive exit wound was on the side of the head.

No wait! The massive exit wound was at the top of the head.

Or the massive exit wound was at the front of the head.

The massive exit wound can be anywhere except at the rear of the head.

KGB officers inside the CIA assassinated President Kennedy. It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y

So, you don't see the massive 'crater' in the top of JFK's head in the clip I posted?
It's impossible not to see it.
What is your explanation for what we can actually see in the Z-film?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 08, 2021, 01:18:27 AM
So, you don't see the massive 'crater' in the top of JFK's head in the clip I posted?
It's impossible not to see it.
What is your explanation for what we can actually see in the Z-film?

The pathologists were enlisted for a cover up, and the autopsy photographs were altered.

The abundance of eyewitness testimony cannot be denied.

Secret Service Special Agent Clint Hill, who climbed onto the back of the President’s limousine within seconds of the fatal headshot, wrote in his official report on November 30, 1963: “As I lay over the top of the back seat, I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone.”

Hill testified to the Warren Commission on March 9, 1964, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car.”

Dr. Charles Carrico told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that Dr. Ronald Jones and Dr. Malcolm Perry “took over the primary management” in the emergency room, where one of their objectives was to “assess how bad his head injury was.”

Dr. Ronald Jones testified to the Warren Commission that President Kennedy had “what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull.”

Dr. Malcolm Perry wrote in his hospital report on November 22, 1963 that the President had sustained “a large wound of the right posterior cranium.”

Parkland Nurse Pat Hutton, who assisted from the moment President Kennedy was brought in from the car until he was placed in a coffin, wrote in her report on November 22, 1963, “Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head.”

Her report states that a doctor asked her to “place a pressure dressing on the head wound,” and she wrote, “This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.”

The “summary” of medical reports from Parkland Hospital on November 22 states that Dr. Charles Carrico observed a head wound “in the occipital region of the skull . . . . Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding.”

Dr. Robert McClelland testified to the Warren Commission, “As I took the position at the head of the table . . . I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted.

McClelland also testified that “a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue, had been blasted out.”

Dr. Paul Peters testified to the Warren Commission that he observed “the large occipital wound,” which he said was “a large wound of exit . . . . There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.”

Nurse Diana Bowron, who went out to the Presidential limousine to assist in bringing President Kennedy into the hospital, testified to the Warren Commission that while the President was lying across Mrs. Kennedy’s knee, she “saw the condition” of “the back of his head,” which she testified was “very bad.” When a Warren Commission staff member asked for clarification on what she saw, she stated, “I just saw one large hole.”

FBI Agent James Sibert, who was present at President Kennedy’s autopsy, submitted an affidavit to the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978 stating that “a large head wound” was located in the “back of the head,” where a “section of the skull bone” was “missing.”

Edward Reed, a radiology technician on duty when the X-rays were taken at Bethesda Naval Hospital, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that President Kennedy’s head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region.”

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill was summoned to the morgue “after completion of the autopsy and before the embalming” in order to “view the body and to witness the damage of the gunshot wounds,” and Hill again observed the wound located “on the right rear portion of the skull.”

Tom Robinson, the funeral home employee who witnessed the autopsy before embalming the body, told the Assassination Records Review Board that he “saw the brain removed from President Kennedy’s body,” and “a large percentage of it was gone ‘in the back.’” Robinson “described a large open head wound in the back of the President’s head.”

Within seconds of the fatal headshot, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill observed the gaping exit wound at the back of President Kennedy’s head, and witnesses all along the way observed the massive head wound until his corpse was prepared for burial. Virtually none of these witnesses placed the massive exit wound at the top of the head.

KGB officers inside the CIA assassinated President Kennedy, and they orchestrated the ensuing cover up. It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 08, 2021, 03:50:47 AM

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill was summoned to the morgue “after completion of the autopsy and before the embalming” in order to “view the body and to witness the damage of the gunshot wounds,” and Hill again observed the wound located “on the right rear portion of the skull.”

Within seconds of the fatal headshot, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill observed the gaping exit wound at the back of President Kennedy’s head, and witnesses all along the way observed the massive head wound until his corpse was prepared for burial. Virtually none of these witnesses placed the massive exit wound at the top of the head.


There's no need to misinterpret Clint's words, here the man himself explaining exactly what he saw.

(https://i.postimg.cc/PJp2GP0v/Clintshowem.gif)

The following week LIFE magazine published a number of key frames from the Zapruder film and all these frames are a perfect match to the Zapruder film and what would only be a few days is simply not enough time for any alteration.
 Any faked events outside of these frames has to blend in with the images below, which means you have to introduce various elements then make them disappear while avoiding the published images which is frankly absurd and besides, Zapruder's film is a jerky handheld movie with multiple moving objects all with their own independent motion blur and you people think that all they had to do was say abracadabra and some "optical printer" just magically makes it happen, hilarious.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MZFFs8gj/Zap-lifeb.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 08, 2021, 04:14:34 AM
Not a valid vimeo URL
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Abraham Zapruder on WFAA (ABC), about two hours after the assassination.

 Thumb1:

I don't think I have ever seen a Zapruder alterationist honestly connect the following first day eyewitnesses to what we see in Zapruder's film.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPK3H8gF/dealey-plaza-eyewitness-1st-day-zapruder.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 08, 2021, 04:32:08 AM
It is clear in the clip below that, not only is the initial movement of JFK's head forward at the moment of impact, but the resultant wound is a massive 'crater' in the top of his head...
Zapruder demonstrated exactly what the film shows. He is not indicating the "top of his head" at all... he is illustrating that JFK had the right side of his head blown off starting at ear level .
Somebody needs to have their eyes checked.   
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 08, 2021, 05:26:22 AM
Like "Mytton" would know how much time was required for "any alteration".
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 08, 2021, 07:37:39 AM

Edward Reed, a radiology technician on duty when the X-rays were taken at Bethesda Naval Hospital, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that President Kennedy’s head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region.”

GUNN: Did you see any wounds on the back of his head?
REED: No.
............
GUNN: Did you see any wounds at all on his head?
REED: Yes, I did.
GUNN: Could you describe where those wounds were?
REED: It was in the temporal parietal region, right side. I could - It was large enough that I could probably put four fingers into it.


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794#relPageId=7
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 08, 2021, 08:43:19 AM
Like "Mytton" would know how much time was required for "any alteration".

Oh really? Just a small part of my work which was selected from hours of uploaded videos is below and just in the first few minutes of this video, I have edited together images with way over 10 layers including a number of elements independently moving in what would have been called a travelling matte and I didn't have to approximate the movement by hand because I set the computer to follow a smooth path and my digital cut-outs were far easier than cutting out objects with a sharp knife and at the end of the day just this short sequence against a non moving background took a very long time, so yeah I have a much better idea than 99% of the CT members here, who don't know how stupid they look when they make baseless accusations.


JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Dan O'meara on June 08, 2021, 09:05:31 AM
Just as the autopsy report says nothing about the front of the head, the autopsy report  says nothing about the top of the head.

And in 1967, after the Justice Department had the pathologists “examine the X-rays and photographs for the purpose of determining whether they are consistent with the autopsy report,” the pathologists  signed a document stating that the autopsy photos show a “massive” wound located on the “right side of the head,” which “corroborates” the pathologists’ autopsy report.

So, the massive exit wound was on the side of the head.

No wait! The massive exit wound was at the top of the head.

Or the massive exit wound was at the front of the head.

The massive exit wound can be anywhere except at the rear of the head.

KGB officers inside the CIA assassinated President Kennedy. It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y

You're experiencing something I call "unseeing".
You've spent many hours on something, invested a large part of yourself in a theory.
Now you can see with your own eyes you are mistaken.
Rather than do that, you "unsee" the images before you.
Don't worry, nearly every single member of this forum suffers from the same affliction.

If you want to know the truth of the matter examine the clip I posted really closely.
You can't miss it.
The Z-film has not been altered.
Neither have the autopsy pics
Study closely the graphics posted by John Mytton (the usual, excellent standard)
It's all there.

But I have a funny feeling you're just going to get annoyed at having this pointed out to you.
Like most of the other residents in this retirement home for nerds.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 08, 2021, 10:02:13 AM
OMG, the wedding ring once again -- LOL

Oswald dumping wife and kids AND leaving his hard earned cash behind, sure!

ROFL

Vincent T. Bugliosi Jr. (/ˌbuːliˈoʊsi/; August 18, 1934 – June 6, 2015) was an American attorney and New York Times bestselling author. During his eight years in the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office, he successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony jury trials, which included 21 murder convictions. He was best known for prosecuting Charles Manson and other defendants accused of the Tate–LaBianca murders of August 9–10, 1969.

Vs

Otto Beck internet warrior!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/ee/b5/e2eeb56f257bd915a631998145dda386.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 08, 2021, 06:57:58 PM
There's no need to misinterpret Clint's words, here the man himself explaining exactly what he saw.


So, several decades after the assassination, even after an aging Hill finally goes along with the “official” version that says a bullet entered the back of the head, he still says that the bullet “exploded out the UPPER RIGHT REAR QUADRANT.”

There's no need to misinterpret Clint's words. He wrote the same thing in his Secret Service report, stating, “As I lay over the top of the back seat, I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying in the seat.”

And he told the Warren Commission the same thing, “The second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President’s head,” and he reiterated what was in his report, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car.”

Hill told the Warren Commission that the only wound he could see was “the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.”

Parkland Hospital doctors and nurses saw the same thing (see my first post for their hospital reports and testimony). And people at the autopsy saw it (again, see my first post).

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 08, 2021, 08:54:06 PM
Oh really? Just a small part of my work which was selected from hours of uploaded videos is below and just in the first few minutes of this video, I have edited together images with way over 10 layers including a number of elements independently moving in what would have been called a travelling matte

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6ee092fc53f6585ef3cc051b99c108c0/tenor.gif)

That's a lot of effort for a shameless propaganda piece.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 08, 2021, 11:25:37 PM
GUNN: Did you see any wounds on the back of his head?
REED: No.
............
GUNN: Did you see any wounds at all on his head?
REED: Yes, I did.
GUNN: Could you describe where those wounds were?
REED: It was in the temporal parietal region, right side. I could - It was large enough that I could probably put four fingers into it.


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794#relPageId=7

So, more than nineteen years after telling the House Select Committee on Assassinations that President Kennedy’s head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region,” Reed changed his story to go along with the official version.

Relocating the head wound was not the only thing that Reed changed.

Reed also told the ARRB that he did not see any wounds on JFK other than the throat wound and the now-relocated head wound. Reed told the HSCA that “the third wound was situated in the back.”

Reed changed his story nineteen years after acknowledging that President Kennedy’s head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region.” Reed was just one of a multitude of witnesses who saw the gaping wound at the back of President Kennedy's head on November 22, 1963.

And I am not surprised that Reed changed his story in 1997. When he acknowledged back in 1978 that the head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region,” Reed also “mentioned that he basically believed the Warren Commission adequately covered the area.”

So, in 1997, Reed says, “Yeah, sure. A wound in the temporal parietal region, right side, and a throat wound. There were no other wounds that I saw. The Warren Commission was right. Now leave me alone.”

Anyone who wants the well-documented facts on who killed President Kennedy and why needs to read my book.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 12:43:33 AM
That's a lot of effort....

Thanks, yeah it was a fun project and shows beyond all doubt that I know what I'm talking about and while editing together my videos I have the luxury of working a clean digital world, but the sort of alterations that David Healey and his comrades have suggested like cutting out and enlarging the limousine is totally laughable and the single frame of Healey's presentation where he presents a photoshopped version is embarrassing and he should be ashamed of himself.

Healey here has presented a Zapruder frame where he has used photoshop to cut-out the foreground elements and slightly enlarged them but in doing so he highlights just how impossible this sort of image manipulation really is and in the Zapruder film we are not talking about 1 image but 500 consecutive images which when run together make a coherent whole, so basically if modern computer image tools can't even produce a single photo realistic frame then how the heck, pre computers, did they do alter a blurry handheld film? Btw that's a rhetorical question because there was no way!

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6918589907_f00093ffb6_b.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 09, 2021, 12:46:41 AM
Thanks, yeah it was a fun project and shows beyond all doubt that I know what I'm talking about and while editing together my videos I have the luxury of working a clean digital world, but the sort of alterations that David Healey and his comrades have suggested like cutting out and enlarging the limousine is totally laughable and the single frame of Healey's presentation where he presents a photoshopped version is embarrassing and he should be ashamed of himself.

Healey here has presented a Zapruder frame where he has used photoshop to cut-out the foreground elements and slightly enlarged them but in doing so he highlights just how impossible this sort of image manipulation really is and in the Zapruder film we are not talking about 1 image but 500 consecutive images which when run together make a coherent whole, so basically if modern computer image tools can't even produce a single photo realistic frame then how the heck, pre computers, did they do alter a blurry handheld film? Btw that's a rhetorical question because there was no way!

JohnM

Thanks, yeah it was a fun project and shows beyond all doubt that I know what I'm talking about

LOL....

But credit where credit is due. You are amazing in misrepresenting what was really said.   Thumb1:
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 01:00:49 AM
But credit where credit is due. You are amazing...

 Thumb1:

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 09, 2021, 01:44:25 AM
Thumb1:

JohnM

Thanks for proving my point.

Kinda sad though that you need this kind of childish BS to bolster your self-esteem. You must be very insecure. It's so sad.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 02:04:56 AM
Thanks for proving my point.

Kinda sad though that you need this kind of childish BS to bolster your self-esteem. You must be very insecure. It's so sad.

You're the one hanging on my every word as you chase me from thread to thread replying to as much of my posts as you can, you lead a very sad life, I truly feel sorry for you.

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 09, 2021, 02:47:30 AM
Oswald is alleged to have assassinated JFK with a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, a cheap Italian rifle manufactured for the Italian army in 1940 and left over from World War II.

According to a CIA dispatch on December 31, 1963, the rifle was among 100,000 Mannlicher-Carcanos that Adam Consolidated Industries imported into the United States in 1960, two years after “Italian military authorities” decided to “eliminate” them and declare them “obsolete.” Adam Consolidated purchased them “at an average price of $2.20 for serviceable 6.5 rifles” and “$1.10 for unserviceable 6.5 rifles.”

“The first lot of 7,000 rifles that Adam put on the American market had disastrous results. Many of them burst, with frequently fatal results, and many didn’t fire. This forced Adam to withdraw all the rifles from sale and check them before putting them back on the market.”

A March 17, 1964, FBI report states that the Mannlicher-Carcano that was allegedly used to kill President Kennedy, with serial number C 2766, was among “a lot of 5,200” Mannlicher-Carcanos shipped to Adam Consolidated by an Italian machine shop in 1960. It also states that Adam Consolidated said that the rifles in this particular batch were “defective” and refused to pay for them. According to the FBI report, the machine shop was engaged in “legal proceedings” to force Adam Consolidated to pay for the rifles.

William J. Waldman, who was vice president of Klein’s Sporting Goods, the mail order company that sold the Mannlicher-Carcano allegedly used in the assassination, testified to the Warren Commission that the rifle cost $19.95 with a scope, plus $1.50 postage and handling, and that without a scope, it would have cost only $12.95. He further testified that a gunsmith who worked for Klein’s attached a scope to the rifle after drilling holes into it.

He was then asked if the gunsmith or “anyone else” had done “boresighting” (which involves using a sight-aligning tool and aligning the crosshairs) “or actual firing with the sight” to check and see how accurately the sight was aligned with the rifle.

Waldman replied, “No; it’s very unlikely in an inexpensive rifle of this sort that he would do anything other than roughly align the scope with the rifle.”

In a letter to the Warren Commission, the FBI reported, “No indication was found that the telescopic sight was remounted. Its position on the rifle, the mounting screws, and the screw holes show no evidence of having been altered.”

Ronald Simmons, Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, who was in charge of test firing the Mannlicher-Carcano, was asked by the Warren Commission if the personnel who ran the test “had any difficulties with sighting the weapon.”

His reply was that “they could not sight the weapon” and had to “adjust the telescopic sight” by having “a machinist in one of our machine shops” add three shims to the telescopic sight.

FBI Special Agent Robert Frazier, with the FBI Laboratory in Washington, D.C., testified to the Warren Commission that adjusting a telescopic sight entails “putting shims under the front of the scope and over the back of the scope to tip the scope in the mount itself, to bring it into alignment.” He also testified that there were no shims in the rifle when the FBI Laboratory first received it, but there were shims “mounted in the rifle” when the Army Ballistics Lab returned it to them.

After it was determined where the rifle was purchased and how much it cost, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover spoke to President Johnson by phone on November 23, 1963, and said, “It seems almost impossible to think that for $21.00 you could kill the President of the United States.”

Colonel Allison Folsom, who examined Oswald’s Marine Corps records for the Warren Commission, testified that Oswald’s record showed that his marksmanship was “not good” and that his average score over a two-day period was 36 when “people should get a score of between 48 and 50.” The record also showed that Oswald scored at the bottom in classification and aptitude tests when he entered the Marine Corps in 1956, that he was court-martialed twice, and that he had been demoted from private first class to private.

In addition to his testimony, Colonel Folsom sent a letter to the Warren Commission on June 8, 1964, regarding Oswald’s marksmanship. It states that a Marine would qualify as an Expert with a minimum score of 220, would qualify as a Sharpshooter with a minimum score of 210, and would qualify as a Marksman with a minimum score of 190.

Folsom stated that according to Oswald’s Marine Corps record, on December 21, 1956, two months after Oswald joined the Marines and received his initial Marine Corps training, he received a score of 212, two points above the minimum for sharpshooter, while firing at a stationary target with a Marine-issued M-1 rifle on a Marine Corps rifle range. On May 6, 1959, four months before his defection to the Soviet Union, his score was 191, one point above the bare minimum to qualify as a Marksman.

Folsom also stated, “A low Marksman qualification indicates a rather poor shot and a Sharpshooter qualification indicates a fairly good shot.”

Colonel Folsom’s information shows clearly that after Oswald’s first two months of intensive Marine Corps training, he managed to qualify at the low end of being a “fairly good shot.” But two and a half years later, with a score that was one point above the bare minimum to qualify as a Marksman, Oswald was nowhere near a “fairly good shot.” He was most definitely a “rather poor shot,” even though he was still firing at a stationary target with a Marine-issued M-1 rifle on a Marine Corps rifle range.

Oswald’s ability to pull off even one precision shot would have not only been hampered by his total lack of competence and his poor marksmanship, but it would have been rendered completely impossible by shooting at a moving target with a cheap rifle that had a scope that was in no way aligned with the rifle.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 03:00:13 AM
Oswald is alleged to have assassinated JFK with a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, a cheap Italian rifle manufactured for the Italian army in 1940 and left over from World War II.

According to a CIA dispatch on December 31, 1963, the rifle was among 100,000 Mannlicher-Carcanos that Adam Consolidated Industries imported into the United States in 1960, two years after “Italian military authorities” decided to “eliminate” them and declare them “obsolete.” Adam Consolidated purchased them “at an average price of $2.20 for serviceable 6.5 rifles” and “$1.10 for unserviceable 6.5 rifles.”

“The first lot of 7,000 rifles that Adam put on the American market had disastrous results. Many of them burst, with frequently fatal results, and many didn’t fire. This forced Adam to withdraw all the rifles from sale and check them before putting them back on the market.”

A March 17, 1964, FBI report states that the Mannlicher-Carcano that was allegedly used to kill President Kennedy, with serial number C 2766, was among “a lot of 5,200” Mannlicher-Carcanos shipped to Adam Consolidated by an Italian machine shop in 1960. It also states that Adam Consolidated said that the rifles in this particular batch were “defective” and refused to pay for them. According to the FBI report, the machine shop was engaged in “legal proceedings” to force Adam Consolidated to pay for the rifles.

William J. Waldman, who was vice president of Klein’s Sporting Goods, the mail order company that sold the Mannlicher-Carcano allegedly used in the assassination, testified to the Warren Commission that the rifle cost $19.95 with a scope, plus $1.50 postage and handling, and that without a scope, it would have cost only $12.95. He further testified that a gunsmith who worked for Klein’s attached a scope to the rifle after drilling holes into it.

He was then asked if the gunsmith or “anyone else” had done “boresighting” (which involves using a sight-aligning tool and aligning the crosshairs) “or actual firing with the sight” to check and see how accurately the sight was aligned with the rifle.

Waldman replied, “No; it’s very unlikely in an inexpensive rifle of this sort that he would do anything other than roughly align the scope with the rifle.”

In a letter to the Warren Commission, the FBI reported, “No indication was found that the telescopic sight was remounted. Its position on the rifle, the mounting screws, and the screw holes show no evidence of having been altered.”

Ronald Simmons, Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, who was in charge of test firing the Mannlicher-Carcano, was asked by the Warren Commission if the personnel who ran the test “had any difficulties with sighting the weapon.”

His reply was that “they could not sight the weapon” and had to “adjust the telescopic sight” by having “a machinist in one of our machine shops” add three shims to the telescopic sight.

FBI Special Agent Robert Frazier, with the FBI Laboratory in Washington, D.C., testified to the Warren Commission that adjusting a telescopic sight entails “putting shims under the front of the scope and over the back of the scope to tip the scope in the mount itself, to bring it into alignment.” He also testified that there were no shims in the rifle when the FBI Laboratory first received it, but there were shims “mounted in the rifle” when the Army Ballistics Lab returned it to them.

After it was determined where the rifle was purchased and how much it cost, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover spoke to President Johnson by phone on November 23, 1963, and said, “It seems almost impossible to think that for $21.00 you could kill the President of the United States.”

Colonel Allison Folsom, who examined Oswald’s Marine Corps records for the Warren Commission, testified that Oswald’s record showed that his marksmanship was “not good” and that his average score over a two-day period was 36 when “people should get a score of between 48 and 50.” The record also showed that Oswald scored at the bottom in classification and aptitude tests when he entered the Marine Corps in 1956, that he was court-martialed twice, and that he had been demoted from private first class to private.

In addition to his testimony, Colonel Folsom sent a letter to the Warren Commission on June 8, 1964, regarding Oswald’s marksmanship. It states that a Marine would qualify as an Expert with a minimum score of 220, would qualify as a Sharpshooter with a minimum score of 210, and would qualify as a Marksman with a minimum score of 190.

Folsom stated that according to Oswald’s Marine Corps record, on December 21, 1956, two months after Oswald joined the Marines and received his initial Marine Corps training, he received a score of 212, two points above the minimum for sharpshooter, while firing at a stationary target with a Marine-issued M-1 rifle on a Marine Corps rifle range. On May 6, 1959, four months before his defection to the Soviet Union, his score was 191, one point above the bare minimum to qualify as a Marksman.

Folsom also stated, “A low Marksman qualification indicates a rather poor shot and a Sharpshooter qualification indicates a fairly good shot.”

Colonel Folsom’s information shows clearly that after Oswald’s first two months of intensive Marine Corps training, he managed to qualify at the low end of being a “fairly good shot.” But two and a half years later, with a score that was one point above the bare minimum to qualify as a Marksman, Oswald was nowhere near a “fairly good shot.” He was most definitely a “rather poor shot,” even though he was still firing at a stationary target with a Marine-issued M-1 rifle on a Marine Corps rifle range.

Oswald’s ability to pull off even one precision shot would have not only been hampered by his total lack of competence and his poor marksmanship, but it would have been rendered completely impossible by shooting at a moving target with a cheap rifle that had a scope that was in no way aligned with the rifle.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y

OSWALD'S RIFLE CAPABILITY

In deciding whether Lee Harvey Oswald fired the shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally, the Commission considered whether Oswald, using his own rifle, possessed the capability to hit his target with two out of three shots under the conditions described in chapter Ill. The Commission evaluated (1) the nature of the shots, (2) Oswald's Marine training in marksmanship, (3) his experience and practice after leaving the Marine Corps, and (4) the accuracy of the weapon and the quality of the ammunition.

Return to Top

The Nature of the Shots

For a rifleman situated on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building the shots were at a slow-moving target proceeding on a downgrade in virtually a straight line with the alinement of the assassin's rifle, at a range of 177 to 266 feet.761 An aerial photograph of Dealey Plaza shows that Elm Street runs at an angle so that the President would have been moving in an almost straight line away from the assassin's rifle.762 (See Commission Exhibit No. 876, p. 33.) In addition, the 3° downward slope of Elm Street was of assistance in eliminating at least some of the adjustment which is ordinarily required when a marksman must raise his rifle as a target moves farther away.763

Four marksmanship experts testified before the Commission. Maj. Eugene D. Anderson, assistant head of the Marksmanship Branch of

Page 190

the U.S. Marine Corps, testified that the shots which struck the President in the neck and in the head were "not ... particularly difficult." 764 Robert A. Frazier, FBI expert in firearms identification and training, said:
From my own experience in shooting over the years, when you shoot at 175 feet or 260 feet, which is less than 100 yards, with a telescopic sight, you should not have any difficulty in hitting your target.
°     °     °     °     °     °
I mean it requires no training at all to shoot a weapon with a telescopic sight once you know that you must put the crosshairs on the target and that is all that is necessary.765
Ronald Simmons, chief of the U.S. Army Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory, said: "Well, in order to achieve three hits, it would not be required that a man be an exceptional shot. A proficient man with this weapon, yes." 766

The effect of a four-power telescopic sight on the difficulty of these shots was considered in detail by M. Sgt. James A. Zahm, noncommissioned officer in charge of the Marksmanship Training Unit in the Weapons Training Battalion of the Marine Corps School at Quantico, Va.767 Referring to a rifle with a four-power telescope, Sergeant Zahm said:
... this is the ideal type of weapon for moving targets ... 768
°     °     °     °     °     °
... Using the scope, rapidly working a bolt and using the scope to relocate your target quickly and at the same time when you locate that target you identify it and the crosshairs are in close relationship to the point you want to shoot at, it just takes a minor move in aiming to bring the crosshairs to bear, and then it is a quick squeeze.769 °     °     °     °     °     °
I consider it a real advantage, particularly at the range of 100 yards, in identifying your target. It. allows you to see your target clearly, and it is still of a minimum amount of power that it doesn't exaggerate your own body movements. It just is an aid in seeing in the fact that you only have the one element, the crosshair, in relation to the target as opposed to iron sights with aligning the sights and then aligning them on the target.770
Characterizing the four-power scope as "a real aid, an extreme aid" in rapid fire shooting, Sergeant Zahm expressed the opinion that the shot which struck President Kennedy in the neck at 176.9 to 190.8 feet was "very easy" and the shot which struck the President in the

Page 191

head at a distance of 265.3 feet was "an easy shot." 771 After viewing photographs depicting the alinement of Elm Street in relation to the Texas School Book Depository Building, Zahm stated further:
This is a definite advantage to the shooter, the vehicle moving directly away from him and the downgrade of the street, and he being in an elevated position made an almost stationary target while he was aiming in, very little movement if any.772

Oswald's Marine Training

In accordance with standard Marine procedures, Oswald received extensive training in marksmanship.773 During the first week of an intensive 8-week training period he received instruction in sighting, aiming, and manipulation of the trigger.774 He went through a series of exercises called dry firing where he assumed all positions which would later be used in the qualification course.775 After familiarization with live ammunition in the .22 rifle and .22 pistol, Oswald, like all Marine recruits, received training on the rifle range at distances up to 500 yards, firing 50 rounds each day for five days.776

Following that training, Oswald was tested in December of 1956, and obtained a score of 212, which was 2 points above the minimum for qualifications as a "sharpshooter" in a scale of marksman--sharpshooter--expert.777 In May of 1959, on another range, Oswald scored 191, which was 1 point over the minimum for ranking as a "marksman." 778 The Marine Corps records maintained on Oswald further show that he had fired and was familiar with the Browning Automatic rifle, .45 caliber pistol, and 12-gage riot gun.779

Based on the general Marine Corps ratings, Lt. Col. A. G. Folsom, Jr., head, Records Branch, Personnel Department, Headquarters U.S. Marine Corps, evaluated the sharpshooter qualification as a "fairly good shot." and a low marksman rating as a "rather poor shot."

When asked to explain the different scores achieved by Oswald on the two occasions when he fired for record, Major Anderson said:
... when he fired that [212] he had just completed a very intensive preliminary training period. He had the services of an experienced highly trained coach. He had high motivation. He had presumably a good to excellent rifle and good ammunition. We have nothing here to show under what conditions the B course was fired. It might well have been a bad day for firing the rifle--windy, rainy, dark. There is little probability that he had a good, expert coach, and he probably didn't have as high a motivation because he was no longer in recruit training and under the care of the drill instructor. There is some possibility that the rifle he was firing might not have been as good a rifle as the rifle that he was firing in his A course firing, because [he] may well have carried this rifle for quite some time, and it got banged around in normal usage. 781
Page 192

Major Anderson concluded:
I would say that as compared to other Marines receiving the same type of training, that Oswald was a good shot, somewhat better than or equal to--better than the average let us say. As compared to a civilian who had not received this intensive training, he would be considered as a good to excellent shot.782
When Sergeant Zahm was asked whether Oswald's Marine Corps training would have made it easier to operate a rifle with a four-power scope, he replied:
Based on that training, his basic knowledge in sight manipulation and trigger squeeze and what not, I would say that he would be capable of sighting that rifle in well, firing it, with 10 rounds.783
After reviewing Oswald's marksmanship scores, Sergeant Zahm concluded:
I would say in the Marine Corps he is a good shot, slightly above average, and as compared to the average male of his age throughout the civilian, throughout the United States, that he is an excellent shot.784

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-4.html

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 09, 2021, 03:05:01 AM

Oswald’s ability to pull off even one precision shot would have not only been hampered by his total lack of competence and his poor marksmanship, but it would have been rendered completely impossible by shooting at a moving target with a cheap rifle that had a scope that was in no way aligned with the rifle.


It is unknown if the scope was out of alignment when Oswald used the rifle to shoot the President. He may have knocked it out of alignment as he made his way towards the stairs after firing the shots. If it was out of alignment, then he simply used the iron sights. He was certainly capable of doing so.  His performance with the rifle that day was nothing spectacular. Only one of his three shots could be described as precise, and on that one the target was as good as standing still.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 03:12:27 AM
His performance with the rifle that day was nothing spectacular. Only one of his three shots could be described as precise, and on that one the target was as good as standing still.

A professional assassin would only need 1 shot, the fact that there was multiple shots is virtually conclusive evidence that Oswald did the assassination all by himself.

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 04:23:37 AM
Oswald is alleged to have assassinated JFK with a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, a cheap Italian rifle manufactured for the Italian army in 1940 and left over from World War II.


Oswald's rifle, the same rifle that exclusively matched the shells in the sniper's nest and exclusively matched the bullet fragments discovered in Kennedy's Limo was found to be as accurate as the then current US rifle, the M-14.

Mr. EISENBERG. I should ask first if you are familiar with this weapon. I have handed the witness Commission Exhibit 139.
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes. We fired this weapon from a machine rest for round-to-round dispersion. We fired exactly 20 rounds in this test, and the dispersion which we measured is of conventional magnitude, about the same that we get with our present military rifles, and the standard deviation of dispersion is .29 mil.


(https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/13018301_web1_AP_6409010102.jpg)

Mr. EISENBERG. Do I understand your testimony to be that this rifle is as accurate as the current American military rifles?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes. As far as we can determine from bench-rest firing.
Mr. EISENBERG. Would you consider that to be a high degree of accuracy?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, the weapon is quite accurate. For most small arms, we discover that the round- to-round dispersion is of the order of three-tenths of a mil. We have run into some unusual ones, however, which give us higher values, but very few which give us smaller values, except in selected lots of ammunition.
Mr. McCLOY. You are talking about the present military rifle--will you designate it?
Mr. SIMMONS. The M-14.


JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 09, 2021, 05:47:51 AM
But Oswald could not have been the assassin because JFK was shot from the front.

In January 1977, Tom Robinson, a funeral home employee who witnessed most of President Kennedy’s autopsy and embalmed his corpse afterwards, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that during the embalming, he found a wound in the President’s right temple that was “very small,” measuring “a quarter of an inch.” Robinson stated that the wound could easily be “hidden by the hair.”

Robinson told the Assassination Records Review Board that he “saw the brain removed from President Kennedy’s body,” and “a large percentage of it was gone ‘in the back.’” Robinson “described a large open head wound in the back of the President’s head.”

Secret Service Special Agent Clint Hill, who climbed onto the back of the President’s limousine within seconds of the fatal headshot, wrote in his official report on November 30, 1963: “As I lay over the top of the back seat, I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone.”

Hill testified to the Warren Commission on March 9, 1964, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car.”

Dr. Charles Carrico told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that Dr. Ronald Jones and Dr. Malcolm Perry “took over the primary management” in the emergency room, where one of their objectives was to “assess how bad his head injury was.”

Dr. Ronald Jones testified to the Warren Commission that President Kennedy had “what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull.”

Dr. Malcolm Perry wrote in his hospital report on November 22, 1963 that the President had sustained “a large wound of the right posterior cranium,” and a few months later he testified that President Kennedy had “a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium.”

Parkland Nurse Pat Hutton, who assisted from the moment President Kennedy was brought in from the car until he was placed in a coffin, wrote in her report on November 22, 1963, “Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head.”

Her report states that a doctor asked her to “place a pressure dressing on the head wound,” and she wrote, “This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.”

The “summary” of medical reports from Parkland Hospital on November 22 states that Dr. Charles Carrico observed a head wound “in the occipital region of the skull . . . . Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding.”

Dr. Robert McClelland testified to the Assassination Records Review Board in 1998 that when he closely examined President Kennedy’s head, he could clearly see that a bullet “came out the back.”

Thirty-four years earlier, in 1964, Dr. McClelland testified to the Warren Commission, “As I took the position at the head of the table . . . I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted . . . . You could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue, had been blasted out.”

Dr. Paul Peters testified to the Assassination Records Review Board in 1998 that the wound “was pretty far posteriorly” and the bullet had “gone out through the occiput . . . . I walked around right and looked in his head. You could look directly into the cranial vault and see cerebral injury to the cerebral cortex and I thought at the time to the cerebellum. So I know the hole was big enough to look into.”

In his Warren Commission testimony thirty-four years earlier, Dr. Peters stated that he observed “the large occipital wound,” which he said was “a large wound of exit . . . . There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.”

Nurse Diana Bowron, who went out to the Presidential limousine to assist in bringing President Kennedy into the hospital, testified to the Warren Commission that while the President was lying across Mrs. Kennedy’s knee, she “saw the condition” of “the back of his head,” which she testified was “very bad.” When a Warren Commission staff member asked for clarification on what she saw, she stated, “I just saw one large hole.”

Nurse Audrey Bell told the Assassination Records Review Board that “the right side of the President’s head and the top of his head were intact,” and she “had to ask Dr. Perry where the wound was.” He then “turned the President’s head slightly to the President’s anatomical left so that she could see a right posterior head wound, which she described as occipital.”

FBI Agent James Sibert, who was present at President Kennedy’s autopsy, submitted an affidavit to the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978 stating that “a large head wound” was located in the “back of the head,” where a “section of the skull bone” was “missing.”

Edward Reed, a radiology technician on duty when the X-rays were taken at Bethesda Naval Hospital, told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that President Kennedy’s head wound was “very large and located in the right hemisphere in the occipital region.”

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill was summoned to the morgue “after completion of the autopsy and before the embalming” in order to “view the body and to witness the damage of the gunshot wounds,” and Hill again observed the wound located “on the right rear portion of the skull.”

Tom Robinson, the funeral home employee who witnessed the autopsy before embalming the body, told the Assassination Records Review Board that he “saw the brain removed from President Kennedy’s body,” and “a large percentage of it was gone ‘in the back.’” Robinson “described a large open head wound in the back of the President’s head.”

Within seconds of the fatal headshot, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill observed the gaping exit wound at the back of President Kennedy’s head, and witnesses all along the way observed the massive head wound until his corpse was prepared for burial. Virtually none of these witnesses placed the massive exit wound at the top of the head, or on the side of the head, and certainly not at the front of the head.

Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 06:31:54 AM
But Oswald could not have been the assassin because JFK was shot from the front.

I don't really care who did it but you can't keep denying the scientific evidence that I keep producing.

Anyway here we go again, this high contrast Zapruder frame clearly shows all the matter going forwards.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3J6Xs0yF/Zapruder-313-high-contrast.jpg)

Nix who was filming from the opposite direction films the same spray of matter.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gcL8vktw/Two-Headshots.gif)

The Zapruder film graphically shows a chunk of brain matter as it heads towards the floor, the inside of the limo is scattered with brain blood and skull fragments, all indicating a shot from behind.

(https://i.postimg.cc/L4G7T5HG/Zap-limo-matter.gif)

JohnM



Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 09, 2021, 02:05:19 PM
A professional assassin would only need 1 shot, the fact that there was multiple shots is virtually conclusive evidence that Oswald did the assassination all by himself.

JohnM

A professional assassin would only need 1 shot,

You know this, how? Experience or simply watching too many movies?

Btw, does this mean that all those expert rifle men who tried (and failed) to copy what Oswald is supposed to have done were amateurs?

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 02:36:32 PM

does this mean that all those expert rifle men who tried (and failed)....


Thanks for pointing out the obvious, assassinating Kennedy while sitting down in a moving car is high risk with a chance of failure, it took Oswald 3 shots as it is.
Kennedy could have been assassinated while stationary at many times during his Presidency but Oswald had the golden "opportunity" and took his rifle to work and killed the President, simple as that!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/JFKWHP-KN-C23687_Address_at_Rice_University.jpg)

(https://www.tmc.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/08/Rice-JFK-Plaque-copy-2.jpg)

(https://cdn10.picryl.com/photo/1962/03/23/president-john-f-kennedy-giving-speech-at-memorial-stadium-for-uc-berkeley-943e99-1024.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 09, 2021, 02:45:53 PM
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, assassinating Kennedy while sitting down in a moving car is high risk with a chance of failure, it took Oswald 3 shots as it is.
Kennedy could have been assassinated while stationary at many times during his Presidency but Oswald had the golden "opportunity" and took his rifle to work and killed the President, simple as that!

JohnM

assassinating Kennedy while sitting down in a moving car is high risk with a chance of failure,

But you said; "A professional assassin would only need 1 shot"

And you went on to say that the fact that more shots were fired was "virtually conclusive evidence" that Oswald was the lone assassin

Now it's suddenly high risk with a chance of failure?


And how is shooting at Kennedy in a moving car (which is high risk with a chance of failure) somehow a "golden opportunity" for a non professional such as Oswald? 

You're not making any sense.

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 03:17:27 PM
assassinating Kennedy while sitting down in a moving car is high risk with a chance of failure,

But you said; "A professional assassin would only need 1 shot"

And you went on to say that the fact that more shots were fired was "virtually conclusive evidence" that Oswald was the lone assassindid the assassination all by himself"

Now it's suddenly high risk with a chance of failure? You're not making any sense.


And how is shooting at Kennedy in a moving car (which is high risk with a chance of failure) somehow a "golden opportunity" for a non professional such as Oswald? 

You're not making any sense.

Get a grip, I was giving you a sarcastic CT reply to your post and it went right over your head. LOL!

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 09, 2021, 03:26:25 PM
In the 1967 CBS-News re-enactment, Howard Donahue said he was given a Carcano rifle he was unfamiliar with and allowed only three practice shots in a basement firing range before going out to the re-enactment scene.
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
    "CBS News directors apparently believed that if any of
     the riflemen had a chance to practice, the results of the
     demonstration would be worthless."
          -- Mortal Error, 1992, p. 8

They had to shoot at a moving target that represented the limousine, with stakes defining the area in which they could fire. Donahue described the shooting platform as top heavy and exposed to weather.
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
    "A light rain began to fall and the tower swayed slightly
     in the wind."
        -- Mortal Error, 1992, p. 9

They had to recreate a three-shot scenario, not randomly decide on their own when to aim for the head for a one-shot kill. The marksmen were allowed three attempts each; Donahue seems to be increasingly familiar with the bolt action on each attempt, describing his third:
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
    "Donahue's shots had all hit within a three-inch circle on
     the target's head."
        -- Mortal Error, 1992, p. 9

 Thumb1:


JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 09, 2021, 03:34:46 PM
Get a grip, I was giving you a sarcastic CT reply to your post and it went right over your head. LOL!

JohnM

Yeah right  :D     You screwed up.

It really is as simple as that and this pathetic excuse doesn't alter that one bit.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 09, 2021, 05:53:47 PM
From the testimony/accounts of the Connallys (WC testimony):

John Connally: "I heard it [the shot] hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.
Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else.
I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----

Nellie Connally: "The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us."

If the bullet exited the rear of the head - and blew a hole out of it - then how did all of this material - brain tissue, blood - land immediately in front of where JFK was? It landed on the Connallys - who said they felt it and saw it - and all inside the interior of the car in front of where JFK was sitting.

How is it possible for a bullet to blow out the back of JFK's head and have material exit from there (from where else could it exit?) and land in front of him, in front of this back of the head blow out? The wind blew it? But they were headed into a wind, you can see the flags flying on the limo.

The Parkland doctors - those who said it appeared to be in the occipital region - were simply wrong about the location.

And for what it's worth, Robert McClelland was interviewed shortly after the assassination by a medical journal called The Texas State Journal of Medicine. He told them this about the location of the wound.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kqlTvi5QNQeL4Ub1TnXFAAVoPNej89enbWigVaKuzBa2wKwH1Ug2HjPq6gRz7XklHtl0Z8expSrpHJuwoF8jXUfMgYpZok3QZOr38dJ7y9a53DuWiZYw4kIjp2vbh5kdrdLspZ9CtnN7IcBZ4QKoSBaNRp3MRxSemFrEfB71CVLiHsw18-pr9nksEQ80OEAKWFVg7sQVSPDI_V_o1Nzl_SB6S1C2nY-D7ZSOT5X_O3nZGBMqvO5HMl9BH-1-oZZQIhRgU9c2Igm3WRYBvc9bcckxcar6-b_-K9OPaZMNpMWSyeZ7tRU6RfODW7t-ZfFSmHG4W84CCAOiOd7OkC_8La9zqSM9Rm5_x-HqzE4ZKHWG2leTdCcIh0lIgT-U_ML9XNTuRriCkLhmcSICosibVLFs6Nsansloa4hb5QsD1aYJbsCe828fEtIrZCKfZjpMwMWpyi7o7sGdn4aXaDwyhgLGRSR7hBaunglniiVHj8764cXZzg3MwnPc8GHConAqLrw_ocXDm-J4xAEvECoY4BEXI29_AnzqokBy4mR0Kft9VqPMYIEu-mKpVz3U1JV-mJRhZxwDeN5gtD34tbIPm96TKkYMAccU1ERjEvL7pQbVN-U01UPr2jSxnjhFtdvPnggBTggXVeNWX4Ljtryu52JjenG1fUpO4XeRzwquAU7IVXcVsWqFnS6s1NssqPAujWplJwREWdg0JDqCRUq3ZzE=w390-h156-no?authuser=0)

The wound was on the "right side of the head." Nothing about the back of it.

Full account of his and the other doctors is here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth599863/m1/106/?q=Perry

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 09, 2021, 07:34:05 PM

Btw, does this mean that all those expert rifle men who tried (and failed) to copy what Oswald is supposed to have done were amateurs?

What exactly was Oswald supposed to have done, and who were the expert riflemen who tried to duplicate it and failed?

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 10, 2021, 01:03:06 AM
Is this in your book? Because 95% of it you posted in 2008.

No. Nothing about the rifle or Oswald's ability to shoot is in my book.

2 KGB officers inside the CIA and a CIA “double agent” (an American CIA officer who knowingly and willingly worked for the KGB) assassinated JFK on November 22, 1963. I know because I exposed the KGB infiltration in 1984.

After the KGB was exposed, the entire 98th Congress held secret closed-door hearings. Every Member of Congress was at the hearings, and they can all attest to the KGB infiltration of the CIA being exposed in 1984.

An abundance of testimony at the closed-door Congressional hearings in 1984 proved that the KGB-dominated CIA killed President Kennedy in 1963.

All of that is in my book. Click the link. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 10, 2021, 05:10:44 PM
No. Nothing about the rifle or Oswald's ability to shoot is in my book.

2 KGB officers inside the CIA and a CIA “double agent” (an American CIA officer who knowingly and willingly worked for the KGB) assassinated JFK on November 22, 1963. I know because I exposed the KGB infiltration in 1984.

After the KGB was exposed, the entire 98th Congress held secret closed-door hearings. Every Member of Congress was at the hearings, and they can all attest to the KGB infiltration of the CIA being exposed in 1984.

An abundance of testimony at the closed-door Congressional hearings in 1984 proved that the KGB-dominated CIA killed President Kennedy in 1963.

All of that is in my book. Click the link. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
You seriously believe that all of these revelations could have been kept secret? Nobody, no member of Congress, no staffer, no one who attended these meetings would have revealed all of this?

The Soviet Union fell apart in 1991. It no longer exists after that date. Revealing that Moscow was behind the assassination wouldn't have led to a crisis; the Soviet Union didn't exist, it wasn't a threat. The Marxist-Leninist government behind the act had been removed, overthrown, replaced. There would have been no war, no retaliation, no crisis as a result because the people who carried out the act were gone. And if the US government had evidence about the three KGB officers they would have been charged with the crime (I believe all are now dead).

This is frankly not believable on any level. The US government is a sieve when it comes to secrets.

We've had numerous historians and reporters do works on the figures. Robert Caro on LBJ for example. He has found no evidence - as far as I know (his last book hasn't come out) - to your allegations. Some of LBJ's people, top advisers, lived after the collapse of the USSR  Several of them are still alive - Bill Moyers, Joe Califano. None of them ever gave the slightest hint to your claims. Nothing at all.

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 10, 2021, 07:42:41 PM
You seriously believe that all of these revelations could have been kept secret? Nobody, no member of Congress, no staffer, no one who attended these meetings would have revealed all of this?

The Soviet Union fell apart in 1991. It no longer exists after that date. Revealing that Moscow was behind the assassination wouldn't have led to a crisis; the Soviet Union didn't exist, it wasn't a threat. The Marxist-Leninist government behind the act had been removed, overthrown, replaced. There would have been no war, no retaliation, no crisis as a result because the people who carried out the act were gone. And if the US government had evidence about the three KGB officers they would have been charged with the crime (I believe all are now dead).

This is frankly not believable on any level. The US government is a sieve when it comes to secrets.

We've had numerous historians and reporters do works on the figures. Robert Caro on LBJ for example. He has found no evidence - as far as I know (his last book hasn't come out) - to your allegations. Some of LBJ's people, top advisers, lived after the collapse of the USSR  Several of them are still alive - Bill Moyers, Joe Califano. None of them ever gave the slightest hint to your claims. Nothing at all.

If his book novel is true, how come he hasn't been 'disappeared' yet. Too soon, I guess.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 10, 2021, 11:54:24 PM
Thanks, yeah it was a fun project and shows beyond all doubt that I know what I'm talking about

(https://c.tenor.com/8EFId5l93wMAAAAM/rofl-lmfao.gif)
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 10, 2021, 11:55:42 PM
It is unknown if the scope was out of alignment when Oswald used the rifle to shoot the President. He may have knocked it out of alignment as he made his way towards the stairs after firing the shots. If it was out of alignment, then he simply used the iron sights. He was certainly capable of doing so.  His performance with the rifle that day was nothing spectacular. Only one of his three shots could be described as precise, and on that one the target was as good as standing still.

"when Oswald used the rifle to shoot the President".  LOL.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on June 11, 2021, 01:32:17 AM
(https://c.tenor.com/8EFId5l93wMAAAAM/rofl-lmfao.gif)

(https://cis.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/styles/square_thumbnail/public/Screen%20Shot%202017-05-05%20at%2010.04.17%20AM.png?itok=e8qLbRz3)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 11, 2021, 08:51:22 PM
Classic Lone Nutter MO, misrepresenting evidence by using the cut down version of the video.

Actually, of the 37 attempts 17 were called 'no time' because of trouble with the rifle.

Which can only mean the rifle jammed or otherwise malfunctions; that is close to a 50% chance of failure.

As a cup-half-full kind of guy, I'll take this golden opportunity to point out that a 50% chance of failure always comes gift-wrapped with a 50% chance of success.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 16, 2021, 01:36:37 PM
The radio log states that when the assassination occurred, Curry, who was driving the lead car of the motorcade directly in front of President Kennedy’s limousine, stated, “Get men on top of the underpass, see what happened up there, go up to the overpass.”

Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker and Secret Service Special Agent Winston Lawson, who were also in the lead car, further bolstered Curry’s adamant view about shots originating from in front of President Kennedy.

As soon as Curry issued the instructions to “get men on top of the underpass,” Decker stated, “I’m sure it’s going to take some time to get your men in there. Put every one of my men there. Notify Station 5 [Sheriff’s Office] to move all men available out of my department back into the railroad yard and try to determine what happened and hold everything secure until homicide and other investigators can get in there.”

Secret Service Special Agent Winston Lawson wrote in his Secret Service report on November 23, 1963, “Chief Curry gave instructions over his radio for officers to converge on the area where the incident occurred.”

There is no ambiguity in Lawson’s report, as the radio log clearly states that the area where Curry instructed his officers to “converge” was “on top of the underpass.”

Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Forrest Sorrels, who was also in the lead car, wrote a report stating, “When I heard two more shots, I said ‘Let’s get out of here.’ I looked toward the top of the terrace to my right as the sound of the shots seemed to come from that direction.”

He testified to the Warren Commission that he “did not look back” at the Texas School Book Depository “because it was way back in the back.”

Presidential aide Kenneth O’Donnell, who was riding in the Secret Service follow-up car directly behind President Kennedy’s limousine was also aware of shots from the front.

In the autobiography of the late Massachusetts Congressman Tip O’Neill, O’Neill writes, “I was surprised to hear O’Donnell say that he was sure that he had heard two shots that came from behind the fence.”

“‘That’s not what you told the Warren Commission,’ I said.”

“‘You’re right,’ he replied, ‘I told the FBI what I had heard, but they said that it couldn’t have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So, I testified the way that they wanted me to.’”

If people were compelled to testify a certain way before the Warren Commission, regardless of what they witnessed, could any of them be trusted to be telling the truth when they said that the shots came from the Texas School Book Depository?

In an Executive Session on December 16, 1963, which was held more than two months before any witness testimony was taken, members of the Warren Commission discussed President Kennedy having been shot from the front.

Warren Commission member Gerald Ford stated, “But that person must have taken the shot over here some place.”

John McCloy, in referring to President Kennedy being shot from the sixth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository, responded to Ford: “Still I don’t see how he could have been hit in the front from here.” Hale Boggs then stated, “That’s the big question, yes.”

McCloy then stated, “I inquired about this and they said that nobody was permitted on the overpass.”

After McCloy wondered how President Kennedy “could have been hit in the front from here,” and after McCloy mentioned the “overpass” that was in front of President Kennedy, McCloy made a statement about the sixth-floor window from which Oswald allegedly fired, and it is clear that McCloy knew that President Kennedy was shot from the front.

McCloy stated, “I think we ought to take a look at the grounds and somebody ought to do it. And get the picture of this angle to see if it is humanly possible for him to have been hit in the front from a shot fired from that window. Maybe it is.”

If it had been a clear case of President Kennedy being shot from behind, there would have been no reason for McCloy to refer to the sixth-floor window and ask “if it is humanly possible for him to have been hit in the front from a shot fired from that window,” and he would have no reason to say, “I don’t see how he could have been hit in the front from here.”

McCloy would have no reason to bring up “the overpass” that was in front of President Kennedy when he was assassinated.

Warren Commission member Hale Boggs was adamant that “the big question” was “how he could have been hit in the front from here.”

Contrary to what was in the final report of the Warren Commission, the Executive Session on December 16, 1963, shows that Commission members knew with absolute certainty that President Kennedy was shot from the front.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 16, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Thus none of the riflemen were as familiar with the Carcano as was Oswald, if we believe Marina's reports about Oswald's "dry-firing" on the porch.

Marina didn't say anything about Lee "dry firing" on the porch.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 16, 2021, 11:30:14 PM
O'Donnell doesn't seem to merely "go along" with a "narrative"; in 1964, he's laying out the rationale for what he heard:

Now O'Neill said he got Dave Powers to "confirm" the meeting but we don't know to what extent. Powers himself was a "shot from the front" fellow, suggesting the Underpass:

Oh, no! What do we have without O'Donnell and O'Neill?

We have all of this:

The radio log states that when the assassination occurred, Curry, who was driving the lead car of the motorcade directly in front of President Kennedy’s limousine, stated, “Get men on top of the underpass, see what happened up there, go up to the overpass.”

Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker and Secret Service Special Agent Winston Lawson, who were also in the lead car, further bolstered Curry’s adamant view about shots originating from in front of President Kennedy.

As soon as Curry issued the instructions to “get men on top of the underpass,” Decker stated, “I’m sure it’s going to take some time to get your men in there. Put every one of my men there. Notify Station 5 [Sheriff’s Office] to move all men available out of my department back into the railroad yard and try to determine what happened and hold everything secure until homicide and other investigators can get in there.”

Secret Service Special Agent Winston Lawson wrote in his Secret Service report on November 23, 1963, “Chief Curry gave instructions over his radio for officers to converge on the area where the incident occurred.”

There is no ambiguity in Lawson’s report, as the radio log clearly states that the area where Curry instructed his officers to “converge” was “on top of the underpass.”

Secret Service Special Agent Forrest Sorrels, who was in the lead car, wrote a report stating, “When I heard two more shots, I said ‘Let’s get out of here.’ I looked toward the top of the terrace to my right as the sound of the shots seemed to come from that direction.”

He testified to the Warren Commission that he “did not look back” at the Texas School Book Depository “because it was way back in the back.”
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Izraul Hidashi on June 17, 2021, 12:27:59 AM
Yeah...we know. The shooters were in the pergola.
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 17, 2021, 01:37:15 AM
You yourself posted this in 2010:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "when Curry was interviewed by the news media on November 23, 1963,
     he claimed that he “could tell from the sound of the three shots that they
     had come from the Book Company’s building near downtown Dallas.”"

Your text above is also eleven-years-old.

Lawson doesn't say the shots came from in front:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "As the Lead Car was passing under this bridge I heard the first loud,
     sharp report and in more rapid succession two more sounds like gunfire.
     I could see persons to the left of the motorcade vehicles running away."

Sorrells thought Curry referred to "the building"; if Curry did it wasn't recorded:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "And the chief took his microphone and told them to alert the hospital,
    and said, "Surround the building." He didn't say what building. He just
     said, "Surround the building." And by that time we had gotten almost
     in under the underpass, and the President's car had come up and was
     almost abreast of us."

If the Chief of Police lied after learning that the assassin was alleged to be in the Texas School Book Depository, could anyone be trusted to be telling the truth when they said that the shots came from that building?

Special Agent Lawson wrote in his Secret Service report on November 23, 1963, “Chief Curry gave instructions over his radio for officers to converge on the area where the incident occurred.”

There is no ambiguity in Lawson’s report, as the radio log clearly states that the area where Curry instructed his officers to “converge” was “on top of the underpass.”
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Gerry Down on November 09, 2021, 08:36:24 PM
On page 3 of this thread back in June 2021, John Mytton posted GIFs of stereoscopic pairs of some of the autopsy photos. This was the image taken from directly behind JFKs head as JFK lay on the autopsy table. Two photos were taken at slightly different angles which allowed for a stereoscopic GIF to be created. Unfortunately the image/gif platform that Mytton used to host that GIF has taken down the GIF (perhaps because that platform only allow GIFs to be put up for so long).

I'm in the process of studying the head wound. Can anyone re-post that GIF here again if they have it?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Mike Orr on July 23, 2023, 03:30:22 AM
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm   Testimony of Clinton J. Hill, Special Agent Secret Service        Mr. Specter - What did you observe as to Presidents Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
                   
                   Mr. Hill  -  The right rear portion of his head was missing . It was lying in the rear seat of the car . His brain was exposed . There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car . Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not , except for the " LARGE GAPING WOUND IN THE RIGHT REAR PORTION OF OF THE HEAD .     
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on July 23, 2023, 03:57:55 AM
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm   Testimony of Clinton J. Hill, Special Agent Secret Service        Mr. Specter - What did you observe as to Presidents Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
                   
                   Mr. Hill  -  The right rear portion of his head was missing . It was lying in the rear seat of the car . His brain was exposed . There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car . Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not , except for the " LARGE GAPING WOUND IN THE RIGHT REAR PORTION OF OF THE HEAD .   

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgg6kCh4/Clintshowem.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/c13bnyhr/Zap-limo-matter.gif)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 23, 2023, 05:07:59 AM
How many years later was this? Hill’s hair should give you a clue.

And how is this the upper right REAR quadrant?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on July 23, 2023, 05:36:22 AM
How many years later was this? Hill’s hair should give you a clue.

And how is this the upper right REAR quadrant?

(https://i.postimg.cc/tC49bNFq/JFKBOHlatest-700.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LX81LZrm/JFKAutopsy-Morph.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgyNS9BF/BOHEntrancea-zps1aef7673.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd57gDCn/first-day-dealey-polaza-eyewitnesses.gif)

JohnM

Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Steve Barber on July 23, 2023, 05:38:20 PM
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm   Testimony of Clinton J. Hill, Special Agent Secret Service        Mr. Specter - What did you observe as to Presidents Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
                   
                   Mr. Hill  -  The right rear portion of his head was missing . It was lying in the rear seat of the car . His brain was exposed . There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car . Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not , except for the " LARGE GAPING WOUND IN THE RIGHT REAR PORTION OF OF THE HEAD .   

  Hill's description of the head never made much sense to me.  Within that same testimony, he said that Kennedy was "lying face up" in Mrs. Kennedy's lap. How can he see a hole in the back of Kennedy's head when he's lying face up?  Mrs. Kennedy cradled his head. In all the pictures taken on the way to Parkland, Mrs. Kennedy is  out of view because she's bent over her husband while cradling his head.  Hill is still on the rear of the car as the limousine enters the underpass, while Mrs. Kennedy has sunken down into the seat compartment after she toppled back in place. Several factors play into the location of the missing skull. Mrs. Kennedy said--7 days after the assassintion--that the TOP of his head was gone when interviewed by Theodore White.
"I was trying to hold the top of his head down.  Maybe I could keep it(the brain) in"  She repeated this once more to White.  The Nix, Muchmore and Zapruder film all three show the same, exact things: The top of his head flying through the air.  The Mary Ann Moorman Krahmer photograpgh shows the top of his head gone,  In two of the rare times Charles Brehm described the fatal shot, he said he saw the top of JFK's head fly off.  He said this to Larry Sneed, and he said it in Dealey Plaza on video during the 30th anniversary.  The autopsy photos of the top of the head show a massive hole on top of the head.  By the time JFK entered Parkland Hospital, Mrs. Kennedy had closed up the wound as much as possible, by putting the large flap of skull hanging down in front of JFK's right ear back into place.  Clearly, it was the top-not the side or rear-of JFK's head that was shot off.   
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Mike Orr on July 24, 2023, 12:51:44 AM
S. Barber -- Why would you say that Hill said within that same testimony that JFK was lying face up ? Could you please show us that testimony ?
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: John Mytton on July 24, 2023, 05:14:22 AM
S. Barber -- Why would you say that Hill said within that same testimony that JFK was lying face up ? Could you please show us that testimony ?

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what action did you take specifically with respect to placing Mrs. Kennedy back in the rear seat?
Mr. HILL. I simply just pushed and she moved--somewhat voluntarily--right back into the same seat she was in. The President--when she had attempted to get out onto the trunk of the car, his body apparently did not move too much, because when she got back into the car he was at that time, when I got on top of the car, face up in her lap.


JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Was Shot From The Front
Post by: Zeon Mason on July 31, 2023, 06:55:27 AM
I still have a slight Problem with the lateral right side x-ray shows radial fragment lines that converge at the FRONT of the skull which is consistent with the “V” notch that is in autopsy photo.

I’ve read that radial fragment lines converging at a point at one side of a skull are typically indicative of bullet ENTRY more so than bullet exit, unless there are also similar radial fragment lines where the bullet was presumed to have exited.

In this JFK lateral x-ray , there’s just the one set of radial fragment lines that converge at the front of skull, while the rear half of the skull seems to show a different type of fragmentation which appears to be just one large piece of skull that was covering the massive hole in the back of the skull, (the upper rear occipital quadrant).

Because of other factors such as the location for a sniper to have a viable LOS to be able to shoot at the front of the limo past the windshield , the 312-313 forward movement of JFKs head in the Z-film, and the experiments that confirm the explosion exiting towards the windshield, it would be difficult to reverse my opinion at this pint in time.

So I will have to suggest that the absence of radial fragmentation lines at the back of the skull must be theoretically due to the asymmetrical path of the bullet entering the skull from the rear at a tangent, the upper rear occipital region, then the bullet fragmented Up to 9 different pieces all which exited in a spread pattern within a cone volume that distributed the fragments such that one managed to fly over towards the curb near James Tague ,  while 2 or 3 others bounced back from the windshield and the rear view mirror frame, all 3  landing together underneath Mrs Conallys seat. And the other 6 fragments, who cares because by this point , you have been mesmerized  to believe anything and will forget about radial fragmentation lines

😵‍💫