JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Robin Unger on December 23, 2024, 08:40:05 AM
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(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjP4CVBb5uAYRFU1yu9Oasg0mPtxyUbQaftFL68BIiOpD7GKz3AwfERfMUjADY6D5IRcTr74Sr55pRfjeUkj0wgSvykUaWGsLz0onD00lyntmID3sMmoVj0kDW-MAi7cnfHxWyDlr7gb1qBGQJTw8XuJkzjcEiiKuD96Wg1v9LmXhArL2XnNmO1tdJvWBWs/s920/Zapruder.gif)
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Daniel Film Zip file containing 60 -Frames
https://app.box.com/s/ai2sf3335w7zrua67144sfvzlvym0hff
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INSIDE THE ASSASSINATION RECORD REVIEW BOARD, Volume IVChapter 14: The Zapruder Film Mystery
PDF file:Zavada
https://app.box.com/s/ya4fmjs0jhvevqttku78
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Associated Press "LARGE" Altgens 6 (3.6 MB) Download
https://app.box.com/s/onqjj5nx14til0d3y9sac8byzryv7ptu
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Corbis "LARGE" Altgens 5 (1.8MB) Download
https://app.box.com/s/403pzjwzx7m0z5ypfnflhv1cc4qq88xk
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Corbis Altgens 7 (1.0MB) Download
https://app.box.com/s/ot6kf9tj7wi9wd685fopq3vg0gvos4lb
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Thanks for the GIF.
One brief observation again re the alleged limo stop (this has been mentioned before numerous times): You can clearly see as the limo slows down and Hill climbs onboard the LEFT tail/brake light appears to light up - it brightens - but NOT the RIGHT light (see image below). Only one light brightens; apparently from the sun shining on it. From this view then it seems that Greer did not step on or tap the brakes.
Of course this is where we hear from the conspiracy believers who proceed to read from Page #1 in their "JFK Conspiracy Manual": viz., "If you can't refute evidence simply claim it's faked and therefore more evidence of a conspiracy."
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID11986514254/Key043821a18c2l/limo light.JPG)
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Thanks for the GIF.
One brief observation again re the alleged limo stop (this has been mentioned before numerous times): You can clearly see as the limo slows down and Hill climbs onboard the LEFT tail/brake light appears to light up - it brightens - but NOT the RIGHT light (see image below). Only one light brightens; apparently from the sun shining on it. From this view then it seems that Greer did not step on the brakes.
Of course this is where we hear from the conspiracy believers who proceed to read from Page #1 in their "JFK Conspiracy Manual": viz., "If you can't refute evidence simply claim it's faked and therefore more evidence of a conspiracy."
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID11986514254/Key043821a18c2l/limo light.JPG)
Sunlight on the "red" brake light lens.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/10/ac/a9/10aca93cc1f398d676730fde72aa1cad.jpg)
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Sunlight on the "red" brake light lens.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/10/ac/a9/10aca93cc1f398d676730fde72aa1cad.jpg)
Slide under the limo with a torch.
U will see a bullet hole in the steel in the top of the driveshaft well, between the jump seats.
U wont see the hole from above koz (after u remoov the carpet) there is new titanium over the floor (installed Dec 1963).
The old carpet with the hole is i reckon somewhere.
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1961 Lincoln Continental Presidential Limousine, Steel Plate Floor Added during "Quick Fix," 1964
After President John F. Kennedy's assassination on November 22, 1963, the Hess & Eisenhardt Company of Cincinnati, Ohio, rebuilt the 1961 Lincoln Continental Presidential Limousine into an armored car.
The floor was reinforced with 1/8-inch thick steel plate to protect against blasts from grenades or mines. Other portions of the car were armored with 3/8-inch thick titanium plate.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/mURI_temp_d45a82e4.jpg)
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1961 Lincoln Continental Presidential Limousine, Rebuilding Body during "Quick Fix," 1964
After President John F. Kennedy's assassination on November 22, 1963, the Hess & Eisenhardt Company of Cincinnati, Ohio, rebuilt the 1961 Lincoln Continental Presidential Limousine into an armored car.
Titanium armor, bullet-resistant glass and tires, and a permanent roof improved the president's security. The modified car returned to the White House in May 1964 and remained in service until 1977.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/mURI_temp_5ea8e7bb.jpg)
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(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYRxGt2N4-2RmUBY_v1O4AioWhQc-vFolsiFtddq4UROmFkSS59OUkSOGzLx7wqv0_Ac8J9qDTPXpDr55bPzxgilO7Abh2P8VPm1DHebxQIbQjeCPxkjil3n7LBeYvzdgn69qOB0mL0ol5KgTsvFvZZa7_6V-oBK73DyfaMFZtODW585iyrUAWxxGRD6Jc/s800/Zapruder2.gif)
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Slide under the limo with a torch.
U will see a bullet hole in the steel in the top of the driveshaft well, between the jump seats.
U wont see the hole from above koz (after u remoov the carpet) there is new titanium over the floor (installed Dec 1963).
The old carpet with the hole is i reckon somewhere.
Take a look at the total space occupied by the Jump Seats + Back Seat Area and then compare that to the Total Space taken up by the Trunk. To the naked eye, the Trunk space and this rear seating space look fairly close to being equal. This raises the question, what specifically are they putting inside the JFK Limo Trunk to warrant this massive trunk space? Bearing in mind there was a loaded AR-15 sitting on the rear floor board of the Queen Mary, means they would probably have fire power of this same level inside the trunk of the JFK Limo. Having come under attack that resulted in the POTUS being "down" inside the Limo, means the JFK Limo had to of Stopped in order to quickly access the firepower inside the trunk. At this same time they would have regrouped. Where did this stop happen? I believe on the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp.
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This raises the question, what specifically are they putting inside the JFK Limo Trunk to warrant this massive trunk space?
Pieces of the detachable roof.
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Take a look at the total space occupied by the Jump Seats + Back Seat Area and then compare that to the Total Space taken up by the Trunk. To the naked eye, the Trunk space and this rear seating space look fairly close to being equal. This raises the question, what specifically are they putting inside the JFK Limo Trunk to warrant this massive trunk space? Bearing in mind there was a loaded AR-15 sitting on the rear floor board of the Queen Mary, means they would probably have fire power of this same level inside the trunk of the JFK Limo. Having come under attack that resulted in the POTUS being "down" inside the Limo, means the JFK Limo had to of Stopped in order to quickly access the firepower inside the trunk. At this same time they would have regrouped. Where did this stop happen? I believe on the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp.
OK, Ill try to reconnect with the gentleman, and inquire about what he may have heard from his dad about the limo.
If you have a reference to that picture of a bullet hole through the Presidential limo floorboard, direct me to that, I will print it out and share that, and see what he has to say.
In Oliviers experiments, maybe not all bullets fragmented for him, but it seems enough may have to influence his conclusions in his WC testimony.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you formulate any other conclusions or opinions based on the tests on firing at the skull?
Dr. OLIVIER. Well, lets see. We found that this bullet could do exactly - could make the type of wound that the President received. Also, that the recovered fragments were very similar to the ones recovered on the front seat and on the floor of the car. This, to me, indicates that those fragments did come from the bullet that wounded the President in the head.
Mr. SPECTER. And how do the two major fragments in 857 compare, then, with the fragments heretofore identified as 567 and 569?
Dr. OLIVIER. They are quite similar.
Donahue met Olivier, & saw the 10 skulls, & was not impressed (Mortal Error). Its simple, no FMJ will fragment when going through the top part of a skull zero not 1 in 100 not 1 in 1000 Olivier's story is krapp.
Re the bullet hole photo etc see my post 9march2021 Did Oswald's first shot put a hole in the floor of JFK's limo?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg108260.html#msg108260
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3frYKg1R44fdSxFV1NTyfMJUFJpHrCQPgEJuHKrrF4-uUhzTB1UQdeLhyym7im915BI2BlpFqkbeZs2DS9bZfhEe5MfQxx6_yYjrj1bNH5ZhqKySKPIQtbOqi40oce135QyUlUEZUAk-9JoZIGkFnhj=w174-h113-no?authuser=0)
Re Hickey's spray pattern see my post 29april2021 Was Hickey's AR15 in burst mode?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2833.32.html
(https://i.postimg.cc/TPM9r7vX/Hickey-6-shot-burst.jpg)
Re Hickey's auto burst timeline see my post 11may2021 Bronson saw Hickey shoot JFK.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.24.html
So, here is my chart showing the timeline for Hickey's 6-shot accidental auto burst.
B06A.36 & B02A.72 happen to fall on a dummy frame placed at a skip, the A denotes a dummy frame.
There were 6 dummy frames, which i called B02A B06A B08A B12A B15A & B15B. And they have been placed before frames B02 B06 B08 B12 & B15.
shot ... zapruder frame ....... Bronson frame
....
Z319
B09
.
Z318
B08.84
.
Z317
B07.68
.
Z316
B06.52
.
Z315
B06A.36
...
Z314
B05.20
6.000
Z313
B04.04
5.636
Z312
B02.88
5.272
Z311
B02A.72
4.908
Z310
B01.56
4.544
Z309
B00.40
4.180
Z308
B-00.76
3.816
Z307
B-01.92
3.452
Z306
B-03.08
3.088
Z305
B-04.24
2.724
Z304
B-05.40
2.360
Z303
B-06.56
1.996
Z302
B-07.72
1.632
Z301
B-08.88
1.268
Z300
B-10.04
0.904
Z299
B-11.20
Re the Z310 shot denting the chrome trim after grazing the bottom of the limo divider (roll bar) see my post 16jan2023 -- Was Hickey's AR15 in burst mode?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2833.72.html
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z1wD31w/AR15-at-Z310-the-shot-that-made-the-dent.jpg)
Re the chrome trim stopping a slug see my post 14march2021 -- Was Hickey's AR15 in burst mode?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2833.8.html
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KQwbUjPh0SQ9pbofbGwAzeVl231qvsWgz-iTA62lppydbfMLTViHjNHGrYs3Bt42snmn8vN86vwPcygG4ED8JSUyeFbD0bzXknf97TtkRs04Y8TI5cgdnhqAacbQ41eomyZy95hn4kq3mFvpGskRvdxMoBWWV2Clqww9iRwdLVmbv5dKia9ojfLASXgnBR5_ANI6ZOvDV4ku5TA8yQW-oQxzpr7dvSOor-IJWuHMQlJfq6QJt10ykTAZslJ9Z8epDnUSGATAuOW570qUvUYU8cISloW6JQc7CnlLESIXhyjeb6Rw3WeliHRLmqZvOxTa4a1yDTzElFiglXgAcxnyoYwB_NhfruKMJ9Hz0Jj4WKNWvlB4rFavZeTcv-q8GmPE0l_bwCp7Vc-xuS5PmT66ayCqha3PdBaPiA9XGGtOa8xhscChvRsh_fCTKwsJBgeqy5NZulkntLIM-3lZ4rm-0JkzyNhhYK3kHEaVA-6LihUVxF8BI6ZSZw0KfZMo18zRJwNAI5A1H852M1GGb3ZEnOB6219pltwexYCn033LMtkah63XyJg6m0idSgdwHTLL1H1FK6Z4GgVX0Y_IIFjGKvIzJLNF4j4zzpjZRJv4MyaxZkLN3bflw6T6std2t2XRtgYAWaQW0iVndeKsIAu8Wvt4TDSgmiLHfYcfE9FPjQRB7rajb6FiKSMLrWAaz1c4L798_24KXBvbfJchEHGpT3l-=w548-h381-no?authuser=0)
One problem re the chrome dent is whether the under-half-face of the chrome trim has enuff angle to guide the initial splatter (ie before the dent forms) directly at the rear vision mirror.
I have not seen the damage to the rear vision mirror but i am taking the word of other members here that there was damage (a small dent i suppose)(the workers at H&E would have known)(was the rear vision mirror replaced)(i have a full list of the work in Dec1963 but am too lazy to check).
The initial splatter might have ricocheted offa the metalwork holding the visor rather than hitting the mirror directly.
In fact we dont have to fixate on the initial angle of the initial splatter -- the main splatter would easily ricochet offa the metalwork holding the visor & then impact the mirror.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fzLkw33BtPHlvej93LCdRDC84baVEaKKNdZChIAVG_hoOnqGGzP7N7WodKX9dULZKanCTZwPRWceZtFU1CVWZqFdrgqqrf1dlaoh9Ur8saixpawz3AKnAhisSzvkDKtrbjLpnAOHKTOi437HKL7Ahd=w700-h591-no?authuser=0)
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Pieces of the detachable roof.
Yeah, I have seen the framework and the headliner pieces. There is no way those pieces would fill-up that trunk. And the spare tire is not taking up room inside the trunk. I think it is kinda crazy to believe that the only weapons inside the JFK Limo would be the standard service revolvers carried by SA Kellerman and SA Greer. They had to have some heavier firepower inside that Limo Trunk.
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/15994.jpg)
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/15994.jpg)
I dont remember that pix.
Funny how the divider frame hides the spider crack damage to the windshield (is left of the rear vision mirror)(but is hidden in that pix).
Funny how the canopy hides the bullet dent in the chrome trim just above the mirror.
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Yeah, I have seen the framework and the headliner pieces. There is no way those pieces would fill-up that trunk. And the spare tire is not taking up room inside the trunk. I think it is kinda crazy to believe that the only weapons inside the JFK Limo would be the standard service revolvers carried by SA Kellerman and SA Greer. They had to have some heavier firepower inside that Limo Trunk.
There was always a shotgun stowed under the back of the front seats in both the jfk limo & Queen Mary.
I seem to recall that, in addition to the AR15 in the care of SSA Hickey, there was praps a Tommy Gun in the trunk of praps the jfk limo & in the Queen Mary trunk.
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Hughes Film Hughes GIF Lovelady raises his right arm to shield his eyes, as he leans forward from the shadow into the sunlight. Credit: Gerda Dunckel
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhOSLsOTROZZS3Uqgc8xQYBSyDS6cny8MjM03dPvAb1U6I4mJ-3tzvvp2rn5QGmfA2QXo2oH-D06XNzAJsaoZKDMzH96k7hmzPAR3Zk4BqvZlSm4ocJESYD7tOth2-XX7bStD4zdHXE9IaOjMKUaDKmKmy87Yu2U9G9NGBumkj7kMc1SZRvTMHnhokrXxTZ/s540/hugheshouststlostbzoonfuew.gif.87e377a9fc685a84c53157909d9ab199.gif)
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Martin / Hughes film sync. Credit: Gerda Dunckel
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjW4867TEvCpZu6FuW1xV1HAk36WuS2EkkhAOBom1NoTf0OxtWfTiNmkmBH6CU-ZyyUBWeqhKUfkBzUu3I3wAShlSs8yjr4gizcibykQHiE497WP8e3B1C5auNRL3iZdwQ4pl_1znirczzJIA93hkKvNfe7FaCnkDG2b05DGh2QNhohy8STIpPF9Pvo77Mp/s720/martinhughessynch100prkc9v.gif.49a5d22f10b6d1ef81458b5eeee90c01.gif)
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Wiegman Crops
(https://media.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2022_08/baylor9.jpg.ac39139a32c783adbb40ee19c538dfdb.jpg)
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Wiegman frame showing the Hester's.
(https://media.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2022_07/PDVD_700.jpg.a09c21d2598efc9725785baa3d085554.jpg)
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Altgens 8 showing the Hester's
(https://media.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2022_07/us5471c54e.jpg.a11fbe78897b5ebb1a38e61aaed92a93.jpg)
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The Last Two Days, November 1963: 21-22 [Outtakes] video 26-minutes.
https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/jfkwhf-whn17-outs