JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on January 07, 2025, 01:02:07 AM
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Who is more likely to believe the CIA killed JFK -- someone on the Far Left or on the Far Right?
"Former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin cherishes both of them because they've both been brainwashed by 60-plus years of KGB disinformation.
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Who is more likely to believe the CIA killed JFK -- someone on the Far Left or on the Far Right?
"Former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin cherishes both of them because they've both been brainwashed by 60-plus years of KGB disinformation.
Based on my experience here, there doesn't seem to be any particular link between political affiliation and belief in a JFK conspiracy. Some on the right might be prone to entertain anti-government conspiracy theories but they are also more accepting of facts and logic which point to Oswald. Some on left like Oliver Stone may not want to accept the conclusion that a Commie killed their leftist icon and entertain a conspiracy by default.
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Based on my experience here, there doesn't seem to be any particular link between political affiliation and belief in a JFK conspiracy. Some on the right might be prone to entertain anti-government conspiracy theories but they are also more accepting of facts and logic which point to Oswald. Some on left like Oliver Stone may not want to accept the conclusion that a Commie killed their leftist icon and entertain a conspiracy by default.
Gallup poll last year had these results. The Republican/Right in this survey is now more likely to believe in a conspiracy than the Democrat/Left: 71% vs. 55%. I think that's a recent change? And this is not just the extremes, the far left and right, two groups that I think are even more likely to believe in a conspiracy. Probably in the 80%+? 90?
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID12033970873/Keykd99k1cbjcgd/gallup poll.JPG)
The Right's increase probably comes from their "Trump collusion allegations were falsified" complaints - i.e., that the FBI and CIA went after him using lawfare tactics. What else could it be? Nothing new has come out to cause this increase. I don't think they've been reading Jefferson Morley's ramblings.
So the "deep staters" got JFK like they tried to get Trump. Boy, that's really silly. How does what the FBI/CIA today - a different generation of people - supposedly did to Trump tell us anything about the JFK assassination some 60 years ago. These are two entirely different generations of people. Comey is Hoover? And who is Dulles? Two different presidents. And two different times. One was lawfare, the other overt violence. Gosh, this is dumb. BTW, why didn't this supposed "deep state" use lawfare against JFK instead of shooting him using this Byzantine conspiracy?
Anyway, yeah I don't see any political linkage - left, right and center believe in a conspiracy - but it seems to me that the major proponents of a conspiracy over these years, the ones getting the most attention and keeping the idea alive, have been from people on the Left. How many college kids brains did Mark Lane screw up with his lies? Garrison called himself a libertarian/conservative but his view of the national security/Cold War state is right out of the anti-anti-communist Left. Viz., the US "war state" as he called it was the chief cause of the Cold War. The other major figures - Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, Sylvia Meagher, the Ramparts Magazine people, Vincent Salandria - were all leftists. So while there's no direct connection between party affiliation and conspiracy belief I do think the main forces pushing the idea have been from the Left.
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Who is more likely to believe the CIA killed JFK -- someone on the Far Left or on the Far Right?
"Former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin cherishes both of them because they've both been brainwashed by 60-plus years of KGB disinformation.
I don't think the KGB disinformation efforts on the assassination has had anything but a marginal influence on conspiracy belief, on whether people think there was a conspiracy. In fact, a very marginal one. That belief is homegrown, emerged from domestic sources and from people like Mark Lane and Oliver Stone and Jim Garrison. And fundamentally people's inability to believe someone like Oswald with no help could alter events so much. They simply cannot believe it.
Sure, the KGB aided Lane with money, Garrison was influenced by that Italian Marxist publication that alleged Shaw was connected to a CIA front. My guess is the KGB had a hand behind that story. And the Oswald/Hunt letter was supposedly made by the KGB. There are other examples. It's not nothing. But I don't think those efforts have played any significant role in the public's belief in a conspiracy. The Stone movie by itself was far more influential on public opinion than anything from Moscow, from the KGB or FSB, from Khrushchev or from Putin. It's not even close. Plus, I've seen a few polls of Canadian and British people where upwards of 70% believe there was a conspiracy. I don't think the KGB's disinformation efforts are behind those views.
People - Americans, Canadians, Brits, Norwegians, Mexicans, whoever - simply can't accept that a nobody like Oswald could change history so greatly. It had to be more. Whether the KGB was promoting this "more" or not it's been there from the very first days of the event.
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Gallup poll last year had these results. The Republican/Right in this survey is now more likely to believe in a conspiracy than the Democrat/Left: 71% vs. 55%. I think that's a recent change? And this is not just the extremes, the far left and right, two groups that I think is even more likely to believe in a conspiracy. Probably in the 80%+? 90?
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID12033970873/Keykd99k1cbjcgd/gallup poll.JPG)
The Right's increase probably comes from their "Trump collusion allegations were falsified" complaints - i.e., that the FBI and CIA went after him using lawfare tactics. What else could it be? Nothing new has come out to cause this increase. I don't think they've been reading Jefferson Morley's ramblings.
So the "deep staters" got JFK like they tried to get Trump. Boy, that's really silly. How does what the FBI/CIA today - a different generation of people - supposedly did to Trump tell us anything about the JFK assassination some 60 years ago. These are two entirely different generations of people. Comey is Hoover? And who is Dulles? Two different presidents. And two different times. One was lawfare, the other overt violence. Gosh, this is dumb. BTW, why didn't this supposed "deep state" use lawfare against JFK instead of shooting him using this Byzantine conspiracy?
Anyway, yeah I don't see any political linkage - left, right and center believe in a conspiracy - but it seems to me that the major proponents of a conspiracy over these years, the ones getting the most attention and keeping the idea alive, have been from people on the Left. How many college kids brains did Mark Lane screw up with his lies? Garrison called himself a libertarian/conservative but his view of the national security/Cold War state is right out of the anti-anti-communist Left. Viz., the US "war state" as he called it was the chief cause of the Cold War. The other major figures - Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, Sylvia Meagher, the Ramparts Magazine people, Vincent Salandria - were all leftists. So while there's no direct connection between party affiliation and conspiracy belief I do think the main forces pushing the idea have been from the Left.
I think it is significant that the higher the education level, the more likely they do not believe in a conspiracy. As far as political beliefs go, leftists typically act accordingly to their feelings (emotions). While rightists are more logical. The extreme left and right both seem to me to let emotions rule.
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I think it is significant that the higher the education level, the more likely they do not believe in a conspiracy. As far as political beliefs go, leftists typically act accordingly to their feelings (emotions). While rightists are more logical. The extreme left and right both seem to me to let emotions rule.
Are you a Trump supporter by any chance?
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I don't think the KGB disinformation efforts on the assassination has had anything but a marginal influence on conspiracy belief, on whether people think there was a conspiracy. Very marginal one. That belief is homegrown, emerged from domestic sources and people like Mark Lane and Oliver Stone and Jim Garrison. And fundamentally people's inability to believe someone like Oswald with no help could alter events so much. Sure, the KGB aided Lane with money, Garrison was influenced by that Italian Marxist publication that alleged Shaw was connected to a CIA front. My guess is the KGB had a hand behind that story. And the Oswald/Hunt letter was supposedly made by the KGB. There are other examples. It's not nothing. But I don't think those efforts played any significant role in the public's belief in a conspiracy. Plus, I've seen a few polls of Canadian and British people where upwards of 70% believe there was a conspiracy. I don't think the KGB's disinformation efforts are behind those views.
People - Americans, Canadians, Brits, Norwegians, Mexicans, whoever - simply can't accept that a nobody like Oswald could change history so greatly. It had to be more. Whether the KGB was promoting this "more" or not it's been there from the very first days of the event.
Over the past sixty years, has the KGB* promoted any conspiracy theories other than "The CIA Killed JFK"?
For example:
"The Vietnam War Was Waged Not to Contain China but so that the Military Industrial Intelligence-Community Complex Could Make More Money from the Production of War Materiel and the Trafficking of Heroin," AIDs, the rock cocaine epidemic, 9/11, QAnon, "The 2020 Election Was Stolen!!!," etc?
If so, have they had the cumulative effect of making our body politic cynical, paranoiac and apathetic?
*Today's SVR and FSB
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Over the past sixty years, has the KGB* promoted any conspiracy theories other than "The CIA Killed JFK"?
For example:
"The Vietnam War Was Waged Not to Contain China but so that the Military Industrial Intelligence-Community Complex Could Make More Money from the Production of War Materiel and the Trafficking of Heroin," AIDs, the rock cocaine epidemic, 9/11, QAnon, "The 2020 Election Was Stolen!!!," etc?
If so, have they had the cumulative effect of making our body politic cynical, paranoiac and apathetic?
*Today's SVR and FSB
I think our own media and government have done more to promote conspiracy theories than the Russians with misinformation and outright lies. There is understandable distrust of the "official" story in the current timeframe. With that said, the JFK assassination is ancient history. Most young people likely don't even know it happened. JFK conspiracies are lumped into the same category as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster. They are fun to entertain but have no basis in fact.
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I think our own media and government have done more to promote conspiracy theories than the Russians with misinformation and outright lies. There is understandable distrust of the "official" story in the current timeframe. With that said, the JFK assassination is ancient history. Most young people likely don't even know it happened. JFK conspiracies are lumped into the same category as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster. They are fun to entertain but have no basis in fact.
Young folks don't need to know about the JFK assassination to feel the effects from the KGB* disinformation operations that grew around the anomaly-replete tragedy and caused the massive decline in trust in our government which ultimately led to "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin's being able to install the compromised-since-at-least-1987 Traitorous Orange Person as our "president."
*Today's SVR and FSB
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Young folks don't need to know about the JFK assassination to feel the effects from the KGB* disinformation operations that grew around the anomaly-replete tragedy and caused the massive decline in trust in our government which ultimately led to "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin's being able to install the compromised-since-at-least-1987 Traitorous Orange Person as our "president."
*Today's SVR and FSB
That sounds like a conspiracy theory. You sound unhinged.
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That sounds like a conspiracy theory. You sound unhinged.
You want a true conspiracy?
I'll tell you about a true conspiracy that's 65 years old now and just keeps on "giving."
At the 27 January - 5 February XXI Extraordinary Party Congress, the Kremlin, having realized that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact couldn't defeat the U.S. and NATO militarily, decided to try to get us to tear ourselves apart by waging Sun Tzu-based disinformation, "active measures," and "Inside Man" / "Outside Man" strategic deception counterintelligence operations (all of which Angleton and Golitsyn critics derisively call "The Monster Plot") against us and our NATO allies. To carry out these ops, the KGB set up Department D in the First Chief Directorate (today's SVR) and General Oleg Gribanov, not to be outdone, set up Department 14 in the Second Chief Directorate (today's FSB). As soon as GRU Colonel Oleg Penkovsky had been "trapped like a bear in its den" in Moscow in such a way that wouldn't reveal who had betrayed him, Gribanov dispatched GRU Colonel Dmitry Polyakov and KGB Major Aleksei Kulak to the FBI's NYC field office to "volunteer" to spy for it. Triple-agent Polyakov did spy for Gribanov for one year (1962) at the U.N. and then "flipped" to the CIA when he was posted to Moscow, Rangoon, and New Delhi, but Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA) duped the Bureau for fifteen years. Gribanov sent Yuri Nosenko to the CIA in Geneva in June 1962 to discredit what recent true defector Anatoliy Golitsyn was telling James Angleton about possible KGB penetrations of the CIA, the FBI, and the intelligence services of our NATO allies. In late January 1964, Nosenko recontacted the CIA in Geneva and said that he now wanted to leave his beloved wife and two daughters behind in Moscow to fend for themselves and physically defect to the U.S. In 2013, a former CIA officer by the name of W. Alan Messer wrote an article titled "In Pursuit of the Squared Circle: The Nosenko Theories Revisited" (look it up) in which he concluded that Nosenko was a fake defector-in-place in 1962, and a rogue-but-true defector in 1964 whom the KGB had no choice but to continue to support his "bona fides" in the U.S. because he was telling the CIA and the FBI what it desperately wanted them to hear (and why it had sent him back to Geneva in February 1964): that the KGB had absolutely nothing to do with Lee Harvey Oswald during the two-and-one-half years he lived two blocks from a KGB school in Minsk.
In 1965, Gribanov sent KGB officer Igor Kochnov to the FBI, and a year later, without Hoover's or Kochnov's telling the CIA about Kochnov's involvement with the Bureau, sent him to the CIA to "confirm" the bona fides of Nosenko, to build up the status of probable KGB "mole" Bruce Solie (Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting boss) in the Office of Security, and to arrange for the kidnapping of CIA's spy Nicholas Shadrin in Vienna in 1975.
Then, of course, there was Aldrich Ames and the mole-hiding "homesick" false defector, Vitaly Yurchenko, but that's enough for now.
Just curious: Are you a Trump supporter by any chance?