JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Jake Maxwell on March 13, 2025, 05:10:09 PM
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Does anyone have a list of questionable deaths of witnesses possibly related to the assassination?
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Let's pretend we're sane and start with Mysterious Non-Deaths:
1. Ruth Paine
2. Michael Paine
3. Roy Truly
4. Bill Shelley
5. Buell Frazier
6. Lots and lots of others.
Geez, that's no fun, is it?
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Let's pretend we're sane and start with Mysterious Non-Deaths:
1. Ruth Paine
2. Michael Paine
3. Roy Truly
4. Bill Shelley
5. Buell Frazier
6. Lots and lots of others.
Geez, that's no fun, is it?
Both Truly and Shelley died.
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Both Truly and Shelley died.
You do realize that if Truly was alive today he'd be 118 years old and Shelley would be 99 years old!
Both men survived decades after the event and lived into their 70's, but did you expect the geriatric Death Squad to break into their nursing homes and silence them? ROFL!
JohnM
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You do realize that if Truly was alive today he'd be 118 years old and Shelley would be 99 years old!
Both men survived decades after the event and lived into their 70's, but did you expect the geriatric Death Squad to break into their nursing homes and silence them? ROFL!
JohnM
My reply clearly went over your head. You're looking like a complete fool now. Thanks!
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You do realize that if Truly was alive today he'd be 118 years old and Shelley would be 99 years old!
Both men survived decades after the event and lived into their 70's, but did you expect the geriatric Death Squad to break into their nursing homes and silence them? ROFL!
JohnM
Far from missing my point, John, you are the one who understood it. Yes, I am sufficiently well-informed to know that Michael Paine, Truly and Shelley are deceased. The point being the one you recognize: they, and umpteen others who figure prominently in Conspiracy World, lived long after the JFKA. Truly died in 1985, Shelley in 1996 and Paine in 2018. As I asked in another thread, what sense does it make for Ruth Paine to still be alive at 92, having been a veritable fount of interviews and appearances for the past six decades? She could be trusted but Lee Bowers and Dorothy Kilgallen had to be eliminated? Really? For Ruth to still be alive makes no sense AT ALL if you believe that a myriad of mostly bit players were "mysteriously rubbed out" because they "knew too much." It's absolutely classic Conspiracy Logic - i.e., it Makes No Sense Whatsoever unless one locked into the bizarre mindset of Conspiracy Think.
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Far from missing my point, John, you are the one who understood it. Yes, I am sufficiently well-informed to know that Michael Paine, Truly and Shelley are deceased. The point being the one you recognize: they, and umpteen others who figure prominently in Conspiracy World, lived long after the JFKA. Truly died in 1985, Shelley in 1996 and Paine in 2018. As I asked in another thread, what sense does it make for Ruth Paine to still be alive at 92, having been a veritable fount of interviews and appearances for the past six decades? She could be trusted but Lee Bowers and Dorothy Kilgallen had to be eliminated? Really? For Ruth to still be alive makes no sense AT ALL if you believe that a myriad of mostly bit players were "mysteriously rubbed out" because they "knew too much." It's absolutely classic Conspiracy Logic - i.e., it Makes No Sense Whatsoever unless one locked into the bizarre mindset of Conspiracy Think.
So you started a new thread under the same implicit, ridiculous presumption that the only criteria for bumping witnesses off is that they "knew too much," whatever that is supposed to mean. If this actually is the case, why don't you cite your source?
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So you started a new thread under the same implicit, ridiculous presumption that the only criteria for bumping witnesses off is that they "knew too much," whatever that is supposed to mean. If this actually is the case, why don't you cite your source?
It's pretty much common knowledge that there have been questions raised over the years about mysterious deaths of "witnesses"...
Here's what ChapGPT has to say:
Yes, over the years, there have been numerous claims that witnesses connected to the JFK assassination died under mysterious or suspicious circumstances. While some of these deaths were natural, accidental, or coincidental, others have fueled conspiracy theories.
Notable Cases of Allegedly Mysterious Deaths:
Dorothy Kilgallen (1965) – A journalist who was investigating the assassination, she was found dead in her apartment under circumstances that some believe were suspicious. The official cause was an overdose of alcohol and barbiturates.
David Ferrie (1967) – A former associate of Lee Harvey Oswald and an investigator for New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison, Ferrie died from a supposed brain aneurysm shortly before he was scheduled to testify in Garrison’s case against Clay Shaw. Some suspect foul play.
Jack Ruby (1967) – The man who shot Oswald died in prison from aggressive cancer. Some believe his sudden illness was suspicious.
Lee Bowers (1966) – A railroad worker who claimed to have seen suspicious activity behind the grassy knoll. He died in a one-car accident that some believe was staged.
Thomas Hale Boggs Sr. (1972) – A member of the Warren Commission, Boggs disappeared when his plane vanished in Alaska. Some conspiracy theorists suspect he may have had knowledge contradicting the Commission's findings.
William Pitzer (1966) – A Navy officer who allegedly had film of Kennedy's autopsy that contradicted official reports. He died from a gunshot wound, ruled a suicide, but some suspect foul play.
Buddy Walthers (1969) – A Dallas deputy sheriff who claimed to have seen evidence of a second shooter. He was shot to death in what was reported as an unrelated incident.
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A brave initiative by Jake! I would have expected a number closer to umpteen, as claimed. I'm sure, with a bit of tweaking, the number could go up.
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My reply clearly went over your head. You're looking like a complete fool now. Thanks!
It’s true that both men lived long after the events, making the idea of a cover-up at that stage unlikely. History often sparks speculation, but sometimes the simplest explanations make the most sense.
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It’s true that both men lived long after the events, making the idea of a cover-up at that stage unlikely. History often sparks speculation, but sometimes the simplest explanations make the most sense.
The Lance rant has the trademark of an LN strawman because the premise makes no sense. "Knowing too much" in itself is not a problem if the witness is a loyal supporter of the official narrative and they will pose no threat. That's why listing the Paines as illegitimate survivors is straight-up nuts. As opposed to the Paines, Truly and Shelley went under the radar and thus didn't pose a threat either, so they are equally badly chosen. Had Lance been as smart as he likes to portray himself, he would have picked Buell Frazier as the ultimate illegitimate survivor, because he's now in his eighties and continues to promote his story, which opposes the "proven" narrative of Oswald "smuggling" the Carcano into the TSBD. We'll have to wait and see what Lance comes up with. Great to see you post!
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The Lance rant has the trademark of an LN strawman because the premise makes no sense. "Knowing too much" in itself is not a problem if the witness is a loyal supporter of the official narrative and they will pose no threat. That's why listing the Paines as illegitimate survivors is straight-up nuts. As opposed to the Paines, Truly and Shelley went under the radar and thus didn't pose a threat either, so they are equally badly chosen. Had Lance been as smart as he likes to portray himself, he would have picked Buell Frazier as the ultimate illegitimate survivor, because he's now in his eighties and continues to promote his story, which opposes the "proven" narrative of Oswald "smuggling" the Carcano into the TSBD. We'll have to wait and see what Lance comes up with. Great to see you post!
I did list Buell Frazier. You unwittingly make my point for me: You really think Lee Bowers and these other characters posed a greater threat than Crazy Buell, who didn't toe the party line when he was 19 and has since morphed into a fuil-tilt wacko?
You seem to have a talent for missing the point. Lee Bowers "couldn't be trusted" and "posed a threat" and thus had to be whacked in a one-car accident on a remote highway? Really? William Pitzer had to be whacked in his Naval office but all the Parkland and Bethesda doctors chugged merrily on for decades, doing interviews and occasionally saying non-LN-type things? Really?
Ruth Paine at 80, 85, 90 and now 92 can be trusted? Really? Not only trusted not to let anything slip but to participate in mock trials, documentaries, TV interviews and whatnot. No wonder she was picked by the CIA for her dark conspiratorial role - the woman is a rock, I tell ya!
The whole point being, most of the Major Players in Conspiracy World lived long after the assassination and died distinctly Non-Mysterious Deaths, whereas the large majority of supposed Mysterious Deaths were bit players and tangential figures who would have had nothing to tell anyway. It simply Makes No Sense, except in Conspiracy World.
Did Gene Hackman and his wife die "mysterious deaths?" Well, yeah, I think so. In Conspiracy World, it would be "obvious" Betsy was injected with hantavirus because she knew about the nefarious shenanigans at the Santa Fe Library.
Read the news: Many, many people die deaths that leave you scratching your head and hoping you don't die the same way. Read about Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal. one of the pet Mysterious Deaths of UFO Conspiracy World that actually isn't mysterious at all. It's all, or least 99.8%, cherry-picked nonsense. For that matter, we can extend it right out to the JFKA. You really think sophisticated operators determined to whack JFK would pick a parade during the noon hour in a plaza filled with 300 or so potential witnesses? Rather Unlikely, it seems to moi, but this is the scenario Conspiracy World is stuck with.
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It’s true that both men lived long after the events, making the idea of a cover-up at that stage unlikely. History often sparks speculation, but sometimes the simplest explanations make the most sense.
Are you an A-I computer?
Who talks like this?
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Are you an A-I computer?
Who talks like this?
People with IQs above 85?
People who at least did fairly well in high school?
I really do love how people today are so comically illiterate and inarticulate that a straightforward sentence immediately strikes them as AI-generated. It's sort of like watching a clerk at Walmart try to calculate your change manually when the system is down.
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I did list Buell Frazier. You unwittingly make my point for me: You really think Lee Bowers and these other characters posed a greater threat than Crazy Buell, who didn't toe the party line when he was 19 and has since morphed into a fuil-tilt wacko?
You seem to have a talent for missing the point. Lee Bowers "couldn't be trusted" and "posed a threat" and thus had to be whacked in a one-car accident on a remote highway? Really? William Pitzer had to be whacked in his Naval office but all the Parkland and Bethesda doctors chugged merrily on for decades, doing interviews and occasionally saying non-LN-type things? Really?
Ruth Paine at 80, 85, 90 and now 92 can be trusted? Really? Not only trusted not to let anything slip but to participate in mock trials, documentaries, TV interviews and whatnot. No wonder she was picked by the CIA for her dark conspiratorial role - the woman is a rock, I tell ya!
The whole point being, most of the Major Players in Conspiracy World lived long after the assassination and died distinctly Non-Mysterious Deaths, whereas the large majority of supposed Mysterious Deaths were bit players and tangential figures who would have had nothing to tell anyway. It simply Makes No Sense, except in Conspiracy World.
Did Gene Hackman and his wife die "mysterious deaths?" Well, yeah, I think so. In Conspiracy World, it would be "obvious" Betsy was injected with hantavirus because she knew about the nefarious shenanigans at the Santa Fe Library.
Read the news: Many, many people die deaths that leave you scratching your head and hoping you don't die the same way. Read about Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal. one of the pet Mysterious Deaths of UFO Conspiracy World that actually isn't mysterious at all. It's all, or least 99.8%, cherry-picked nonsense. For that matter, we can extend it right out to the JFKA. You really think sophisticated operators determined to whack JFK would pick a parade during the noon hour in a plaza filled with 300 or so potential witnesses? Rather Unlikely, it seems to moi, but this is the scenario Conspiracy World is stuck with.
What a mistaka to maka, missing Frazier. Ironically, it makes your list even more insane, lumping him with the Paines; like Richard's replicating death squads insane. By not answering my question, you fully confirmed my suspicion that you set up a strawman to allow yourself to ramble about any conspiracy known to mankind. Well done, and enjoy your weekend!
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People with IQs above 85?
People who at least did fairly well in high school?
I really do love how people today are so comically illiterate and inarticulate that a straightforward sentence immediately strikes them as AI-generated. It's sort of like watching a clerk at Walmart try to calculate your change manually when the system is down.
I know, right?
Some members can be real dopes.