JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Jake Maxwell on April 04, 2025, 07:34:19 PM
-
Jerry Organ did some kind of comparison of Betzner and Willis over 20 years ago (see picture at the bottom)... Why was this overlooked?
Once you see it... you can't not see it!
This is likely Black Dog Man, or his accomplice...
He looks as though he has African-American features... with a gun... and tripod... and hat...
Is this the fellow M. Sitzman saw behind the retaining wall?
THIS should go viral!
And it will probably keep some of you up at night...
(https://i.ibb.co/FkSxf3Gy/ezgif-com-crop-3.gif)
(https://i.ibb.co/WvrNbKJ1/Untitled-2.png)
-
You keep posting photos of Prayer Man and trying to convince us it's someone else.
That is the absolute, most convincing photo I've ever seen - of Prayer Man ... or maybe a bush ... or possibly an alien. No, wait, could that be a cat?
I'll let you know if it kept me up tonight.
-
When did Sitzman ever say she saw a Fellow, "behind the retaining wall"?
-
You keep posting photos of Prayer Man and trying to convince us it's someone else.
That is the absolute, most convincing photo I've ever seen - of Prayer Man ... or maybe a bush ... or possibly an alien. No, wait, could that be a cat?
I'll let you know if it kept me up tonight.
Lance, You got "it" really bad if you can't see that one... Whew!
-
When did Sitzman ever say she saw a Fellow, "behind the retaining wall"?
This is what I'm referring to...
Pointing towards the corner of the retaining wall, Sitzman recalled in one of her last interviews:
"What had happened, there was a couple sitting right over here in a park bench and they dropped a pop bottle, right after the car went under the Triple Underpass. And when that pop bottle hit the cement, it kind of woke us up. And both Mr. Z and I was still standing up here. Everybody else was laying down flat. And all's I can remember then, was going through my mind: 'What am I doing standing up here?'"
Here's a link where this was found... https://www.jfk-assassination.net/organ3.htm
-
I see what you see.
-
Lance, You got "it" really bad if you can't see that one... Whew!
I went to your link. Sitzman saw a young Black couple sitting on a park bench, eating lunch and drinking Cokes, who threw down their bottles and startled her. Dallas Morning News photographer Johnny Flynn later saw "two plainclothes men, one with a stenographer's note pad in hand, leaning over and examining a paper lunch bag, and a wrapper marked 'Tom Thumb 8 Buns 25 cents.' The lunch leavings are resting on an odd-looking metal frame slat bench positioned perpendicular to the concrete wall and next to the walkway leading to the stairs at the knoll."
This is now your Black man in a hat with a gun and tripod, is that right?
So, you basically ignore Sitzman and Flynn, correct? The Black couple, Tom Thumb buns and Coke bottles were ... what?
I'll have to admit, sincerely, that when I stare at your GIF or whatever it is until I'm cross-eyed, I CAN make myself see, for a fleeting instant, what I might convince myself was a white guy in a wide-brimmed hat holding or pointing what looks more to me like a pop bottle than a gun. But it could well be a 6'2" Black guy weighing approximately 187 pounds in a Stetson hat pointing a Remington Model 783 30.06 rifle with a 4X Weaver scope.
-
I went to your link. Sitzman saw a young Black couple sitting on a park bench, eating lunch and drinking Cokes, who threw down their bottles and startled her. Dallas Morning News photographer Johnny Flynn later saw "two plainclothes men, one with a stenographer's note pad in hand, leaning over and examining a paper lunch bag, and a wrapper marked 'Tom Thumb 8 Buns 25 cents.' The lunch leavings are resting on an odd-looking metal frame slat bench positioned perpendicular to the concrete wall and next to the walkway leading to the stairs at the knoll."
This is now your Black man in a hat with a gun and tripod, is that right?
So, you basically ignore Sitzman and Flynn, correct? The Black couple, Tom Thumb buns and Coke bottles were ... what?
I'll have to admit, sincerely, that when I stare at your GIF or whatever it is until I'm cross-eyed, I CAN make myself see, for a fleeting instant, what I might convince myself was a white guy in a wide-brimmed hat holding or pointing what looks more to me like a pop bottle than a gun. But it could well be a 6'2" Black guy weighing approximately 187 pounds in a Stetson hat pointing a Remington Model 783 30.06 rifle with a 4X Weaver scope.
I hope this helps orient your view...
(https://i.ibb.co/XxfBVzM0/ezgif-com-resize-11.gif)
-
I hope this helps orient your view...
(https://i.ibb.co/XxfBVzM0/ezgif-com-resize-11.gif)
I'm truly trying to be semi-sincere here, but this is kind of humorous: I was just about to ask you what the significance of the yellow circle was because the "face" I saw was to the LEFT of it! In your latest effort, I can see the face in the hat - or at least what could be a face in a hat - but how does this get expanded into a guy with a gun and tripod, and aren't you ignoring Sitzman and Flynn as I suggested? And how would you ever prove anything significant from this at this late date?
-
I'm truly trying to be semi-sincere here, but this is kind of humorous: I was just about to ask you what the significance of the yellow circle was because the "face" I saw was to the LEFT of it! In your latest effort, I can see the face in the hat - or at least what could be a face in a hat - but how does this get expanded into a guy with a gun and tripod, and aren't you ignoring Sitzman and Flynn as I suggested? And how would you ever prove anything significant from this at this late date?
Very good... glad that helped with the view.
There seems to be some sort of barrel and what could easily be seen as a tripod...
The significance?
I tend to think that most everyone on the forum is still trying to find "closure" of some sort, to our national trauma of the 20th century. Many are frustrated because there are still government officials wanting to withhold information - and for the sake of sounding noble - claiming they are concerned for national security.
Many over the years have tried to make sense of the images at the corner of this retaining wall. They should find this newly discovered and comparatively very distinct image, very refreshing. (I'll let fellow forum members chime in on that.)
Also, this seems to suggest strongly, that photographic evidence was tampered with to distort and conceal.
If that is the case in this instance, then it is likely the case with other photos and film, like the Nix film and Zapruder film.
I tip my hat to all the stalwart investigators who have strained their eyes with images that now seem to have been purposely altered to cover over this horrible national tragedy.
-
But isn't it true that you are ignoring what Sitzman and Flynn saw and said? Isn't that a problem?
It's rather telling, I think, that I first saw a man in a hat to the LEFT of your yellow circle!
I will never forget driving to work one day down Interstate 40 with my wife in the car. I was absolutely stunned by a cloud ahead of us but said nothing. My wife finally asked, "What do you see in that cloud?" I immediately answered, "An old grandma in an apron leaning over and picking vegetables." My wife said excitedly, "Yes, exactly!" It was uncanny. Pareidolia can be incredibly convincing. I'm not insisting this is pareidolia, but that photo has been debated for so long that this would be my guess.
-
But isn't it true that you are ignoring what Sitzman and Flynn saw and said? Isn't that a problem?
It's rather telling, I think, that I first saw a man in a hat to the LEFT of your yellow circle!
I will never forget driving to work one day down Interstate 40 with my wife in the car. I was absolutely stunned by a cloud ahead of us but said nothing. My wife finally asked, "What do you see in that cloud?" I immediately answered, "An old grandma in an apron leaning over and picking vegetables." My wife said excitedly, "Yes, exactly!" It was uncanny. Pareidolia can be incredibly convincing. I'm not insisting this is pareidolia, but that photo has been debated for so long that this would be my guess.
New discoveries are made every day... but we can't begin with the thought, "There aren't any new discoveries."
This photo speaks very clearly in my opinion. Every theory developed will have to contend with the apparent fact that this man was at the corner, and had what seems to be a scope or rifle barrel. AND the photo seems to have been altered to conceal this...
-
Anyone or any alleged Couple sitting on that bench would have had their upper body at a Higher level than that short wall running alongside the bench. None of the images taken immediately before, during, or after the Kill Shot show any Figure(s) above the short wall. Sitzman tells us that this alleged couple got Up from the bench and smashed Pop Bottles as the JFK Limo was going under the Triple Underpass. Either Sitzman was off her rocker or the assassination images were monkey'd with in order to Remove this alleged couple. In addition to this missing Couple, we have the Black Dog Man, Gordon Arnold, and a No Hat Cop that are ALL MISSING from any assassination images showing this area. And, there is also DPD Officer Hargis claiming he ran up to that little wall. Hargis is also missing from ALL the assassination images of this area. The area from the short wall to the picket fence is without question a JFK Assassination Black Hole. Stay Tuned!
-
The black couple was just blithely eating their lunch as the limo progressed down Elm? They didn't stand up to get a better view or to wave? Bizarre.
-
What a load of you-know-what.
-
Anyone or any alleged Couple sitting on that bench would have had their upper body at a Higher level than that short wall running alongside the bench. None of the images taken immediately before, during, or after the Kill Shot show any Figure(s) above the short wall. Sitzman tells us that this alleged couple got Up from the bench and smashed Pop Bottles as the JFK Limo was going under the Triple Underpass. Either Sitzman was off her rocker or the assassination images were monkey'd with in order to Remove this alleged couple. In addition to this missing Couple, we have the Black Dog Man, Gordon Arnold, and a No Hat Cop that are ALL MISSING from any assassination images showing this area. And, there is also DPD Officer Hargis claiming he ran up to that little wall. Hargis is also missing from ALL the assassination images of this area. The area from the short wall to the picket fence is without question a JFK Assassination Black Hole. Stay Tuned!
Your hero and mine, Jefferson Morley, not only fully accepts Sitzman's story but is actively searching for the young couple: https://jfkfacts.substack.com/p/the-couple-on-the-grassy-knoll?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
His article includes the photo of the lunch remains on the bench taken by Jerry Flynn of the Dallas Morning News the same afternoon.
-
Jerry Organ did some kind of comparison of Betzner and Willis over 20 years ago (see picture at the bottom)... Why was this overlooked?
Once you see it... you can't not see it!
This is likely Black Dog Man, or his accomplice...
He looks as though he has African-American features... with a gun... and tripod... and hat...
Is this the fellow M. Sitzman saw behind the retaining wall?
THIS should go viral!
And it will probably keep some of you up at night...
(https://i.ibb.co/FkSxf3Gy/ezgif-com-crop-3.gif)
(https://i.ibb.co/WvrNbKJ1/Untitled-2.png)
With respect to "20 years ago", technology has far surpassed these eye scratching images. This is why Today we can see that Willis 5 shows 2 Men standing at the bottom of The Steps. The 3 Men stuff is Now laughable.
-
Even 61 years ago, the technology was sufficient for Jerry Flynn's camera to capture the two DPD plainclothes officers looking at the lunch remains on the bench.
Those dang "inconvenient facts," eh? Just ignore 'em - they're no fun!
-
Even 61 years ago, the technology was sufficient for Jerry Flynn's camera to capture the two DPD plainclothes officers looking at the lunch remains on the bench.
Those dang "inconvenient facts," eh? Just ignore 'em - they're no fun!
The photo you reference was a "Posed" Photograph. You do know that, right?
-
The photo you reference was a "Posed" Photograph. You do know that, right?
Not only do I not know that, but Jefferson Morley doesn't know that (this is from his JFK Facts Substack):
"Later in the afternoon of November 22, Johnny Flynn, a photographer for the Dallas Morning News, captured two Dallas plainclothes detectives looking at the park bench where the couple sat and examining the bag lunch they left behind. The photo confirms the details in Sitzman’s account, and begs the question: what happened to the couple on the knoll?"
Was the bench posed as well? The lunch remains (Tom Thumb buns?) posed? The detectives posed? Johnny Flynn posed? All to confirm Sitzman's story - or was she part of the conspiracy too? Golly, just the effort to cover-up the Black guy with a rifle and tripod was a pretty elaborate conspiracy all by itself!
Believe what you wish, but these ad hoc explanations do end up looking like a Rube Goldberg contraption - all to prop up a photo that has been examined umpteen times. If you can actually prove something new and different, go for it. I say pareidolia until you do.
-
Not only do I not know that, but Jefferson Morley doesn't know that (this is from his JFK Facts Substack):
"Later in the afternoon of November 22, Johnny Flynn, a photographer for the Dallas Morning News, captured two Dallas plainclothes detectives looking at the park bench where the couple sat and examining the bag lunch they left behind. The photo confirms the details in Sitzman’s account, and begs the question: what happened to the couple on the knoll?"
Was the bench posed as well? The lunch remains (Tom Thumb buns?) posed? The detectives posed? Johnny Flynn posed? All to confirm Sitzman's story - or was she part of the conspiracy too? Golly, just the effort to cover-up the Black guy with a rifle and tripod was a pretty elaborate conspiracy all by itself!
Believe what you wish, but these ad hoc explanations do end up looking like a Rube Goldberg contraption - all to prop up a photo that has been examined umpteen times. If you can actually prove something new and different, go for it. I say pareidolia until you do.
We shouldn't get distracted from the larger picture...
We have a convincing image of someone at the corner of the retaining wall, with what could very well be a rifle scope...
Pareidolia is a real condition to consider... but there is an opposite condition that is very effective in distorting reality... perhaps agnosia - specifically visual agnosia - a neurological condition where someone is unable to recognize objects, faces, or patterns despite having intact vision.
AND there are some who are so psychologically set against seeing something, they cannot and will not see it...
There he is... waiting for the president at the corner of the retaining wall...
(https://i.ibb.co/Mk1pFPDJ/Image-4-6-25-at-2-43-PM.jpg)
-
Not only do I not know that, but Jefferson Morley doesn't know that (this is from his JFK Facts Substack):
"Later in the afternoon of November 22, Johnny Flynn, a photographer for the Dallas Morning News, captured two Dallas plainclothes detectives looking at the park bench where the couple sat and examining the bag lunch they left behind. The photo confirms the details in Sitzman’s account, and begs the question: what happened to the couple on the knoll?"
Was the bench posed as well? The lunch remains (Tom Thumb buns?) posed? The detectives posed? Johnny Flynn posed? All to confirm Sitzman's story - or was she part of the conspiracy too? Golly, just the effort to cover-up the Black guy with a rifle and tripod was a pretty elaborate conspiracy all by itself!
Believe what you wish, but these ad hoc explanations do end up looking like a Rube Goldberg contraption - all to prop up a photo that has been examined umpteen times. If you can actually prove something new and different, go for it. I say pareidolia until you do.
Take a look at any image of that area between the short wall and the picket fence. There are NOT Photog's and/or Reporters sniffing around Down inside this area at the same time it was being investigated. In fact, the DPD completely cleared the area N and S of Elm St. shortly after they were sure the TSBD did Not have an active shooter inside it. DPD had cops cars parked on the Elm St sidewalk and atop the (S) grass section. That frequently seen photo was posed.
-
The absolute (sic),(sic) most convincing photo you will ever see!
That's a suggestion I refuse to accept.
-
Your hero and mine, Jefferson Morley, not only fully accepts Sitzman's story but is actively searching for the young couple: https://jfkfacts.substack.com/p/the-couple-on-the-grassy-knoll?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
His article includes the photo of the lunch remains on the bench taken by Jerry Flynn of the Dallas Morning News the same afternoon.
I hope you're kidding when you say Jefferson Morley is your hero.
-
Yeah... looks like a correlation with Zapruder... perhaps the same hat!
(https://i.ibb.co/S46yVgqg/ezgif-com-resize-13.gif)
-
The Myth of the Mystery Man in the Pyracantha Bush in Dealey Plaza, by the late Bill Miller
Full Analysis Here https://jfklancer.maryferrell.org/miller/mysteryman.html (https://jfklancer.maryferrell.org/miller/mysteryman.html)
(https://jfklancer.maryferrell.org/miller/images/6979.gif)
-
Forget the "hat" stuff. When Zapruder filmed that segment, it should have included our seeing the E-W section of the short wall that veers off/runs toward The Steps. This general area would be where we see the Black Dog Man on Willis 5. The SS Re-creation Filming that was done from the Zapruder Perch DOES SHOW this E-W section of the short wall. The "hat" stuff is lame misdirection. There is no such thing as the perfect crime. The SS re-creation film is proof of this. That SS film that was shot shortly after the assassination, (especially the copy posted on You Tube by Von Pein), is an absolute treasure trove.
-
Forget the "hat" stuff. When Zapruder filmed that segment, it should have included our seeing the E-W section of the short wall that veers off/runs toward The Steps. This general area would be where we see the Black Dog Man on Willis 5. The SS Re-creation Filming that was done from the Zapruder Perch DOES SHOW this E-W section of the short wall. The "hat" stuff is lame misdirection. There is no such thing as the perfect crime. The SS re-creation film is proof of this. That SS film that was shot shortly after the assassination, (especially the copy posted on You Tube by Von Pein), is an absolute treasure trove.
No... can't forget the "hat stuff." It is most likely legit...
and appears to correspond with the find in Willis 5.
Here's the sequence...
(https://i.ibb.co/BVnBPDDH/ezgif-com-resize-14.gif)
Likely this guy's hat...
(https://i.ibb.co/TMvRdTLV/Screenshot-2025-04-10-at-5-53-29-PM.png)
-
Black Dog man does not look like an African American. He looks like a blob Squatch.
-
BLACK Dog Man is just that. BLACK. This alleged Hat is White or very lightly colored. That Hat is Not connected to BLACK Dog Man.
-
When you work closely with film and photos, you notice that color is greatly affected by bright light and shadows. Color is less significant in some photos because of the way the light hits the film.
When you work closely with the JFK assassination photos - in particular, Willis 5 and Betzner - you realize that some alteration is very likely.
The fact that the man with the hat in the first post of this topic had to be turned, and twisted to arrive at the image seen... says that the photo was very likely altered.
Yes, there is enough photographic information in the Willis 5 photo under discussion here, to say with certainty that there is a man with a hat peering up over the retaining wall of the pergola, and he appears to have African-American features... Whatever anyone wants to call the man - prayer man, black dog man, etc. - is insignificant and off point.
-
Looking at Black Dog Man on Willis 5 makes me believe this person is wearing a "hoodie" of some kind. The shape of the head is curved. Kinda like the angle on the ends of a 1/2 moon. A hoodie hanging over the forehead would produce the head shape of Black Dog Man.
-
I'm sorry to see this thread go dormant. I thought we were on the verge of a genuine breakthrough here. Of course, I'm also still waiting for the bombshells Royell has been promising ever since I joined the forum ...
It does occur to me - and perhaps to you - that we have clear photos and film of, oh, perhaps 300 people in Dealey Plaza on 11-22-63. It's pure happenstance that we don't have 25 times as much photographic and film evidence as we do. By some quirk of fate, however, everyone from Prayer Person on the steps of the TSBD to Badge Man, Black Dog Man and all the other evildoers "just happens" to be an amorphous blob. Odd, eh?
-
How many shooters do conspiracy believers see in the image below?
Answer: As many as they need.
(I see two Valkyries from the Ring Cycle clashing. Ruth Paine was Brunhild?)
(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*5UYKB2rloI5v-dbSv3hVfw.jpeg)
-
I'm sorry to see this thread go dormant. I thought we were on the verge of a genuine breakthrough here. Of course, I'm also still waiting for the bombshells Royell has been promising ever since I joined the forum ...
It does occur to me - and perhaps to you - that we have clear photos and film of, oh, perhaps 300 people in Dealey Plaza on 11-22-63. It's pure happenstance that we don't have 25 times as much photographic and film evidence as we do. By some quirk of fate, however, everyone from Prayer Person on the steps of the TSBD to Badge Man, Black Dog Man and all the other evildoers "just happens" to be an amorphous blob. Odd, eh?
Who determined that The Black Dog Man was an "amorphous blob"? To my knowledge, that figure in Willis 5 has always been proven to show flesh tones/a person. I bring this up as I am currently wrapping up a Discovery that involves "Black Dog Man". I routinely have more than 1 ball in the air at the same time. Each being at a different research stage. Please remind yourself that You don't know everything that is ongoing. Both center stage as well as back stage. Last thing I want to do is disappoint a fan.
-
Who determined that The Black Dog Man was an "amorphous blob"? To my knowledge, that figure in Willis 5 has always been proven to show flesh tones/a person. I bring this up as I am currently wrapping up a Discovery that involves "Black Dog Man". I routinely have more than 1 ball in the air at the same time. Each being at a different research stage. Please remind yourself that You don't know everything that is ongoing. Both center stage as well as back stage. Last thing I want to do is disappoint a fan.
Prayer Person is obviously a person - but, alas, an amorphous blob of a person. It's pure coincidence that the "Oswald" of Prayer Person theology "just happens" to be the only one on the steps who is such an amorphous blob that we can't even tell whether "he" is a man or woman. Convenient for Prayer Person theology, eh - even if said theology makes no earthly sense?
I have sternly admonished myself that I do not know everything that is ongoing, either at center stage or in the wings. I will continue to await your revelations about Black Dog Man and am fully prepared to admit that he was, in fact, Trini Lopez with a silencer-equipped 30.06, or something like that. Seriously, bring it on - I am open to any genuine breakthroughs!
-
How many shooters do conspiracy believers see in the image below?
Probably the same number as the number of LN believers who think they see Kennedy and Connally "clearly" reacting simultaneously in the image below.
(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*5UYKB2rloI5v-dbSv3hVfw.jpeg)
-
Prayer Person is obviously a person - but, alas, an amorphous blob of a person. It's pure coincidence that the "Oswald" of Prayer Person theology "just happens" to be the only one on the steps who is such an amorphous blob that we can't even tell whether "he" is a man or woman. Convenient for Prayer Person theology, eh - even if said theology makes no earthly sense?
I have sternly admonished myself that I do not know everything that is ongoing, either at center stage or in the wings. I will continue to await your revelations about Black Dog Man and am fully prepared to admit that he was, in fact, Trini Lopez with a silencer-equipped 30.06, or something like that. Seriously, bring it on - I am open to any genuine breakthroughs!
The only thing you're open to is tedious appeals to ridicule.
-
From NIX... same fellow... or his accomplice...?
(https://i.ibb.co/QFBf6sqQ/Image-4-15-25-at-11-42-PM.jpg)
-
(https://i.ibb.co/5fwRC59/Image-4-16-25-at-2-23-PM.jpg)
Gifmaker doesn't give the best resolution, but I think this might help orient your view...
(https://i.ibb.co/8LKNK9NR/ezgif-com-resize-16.gif)
-
AND what about this guy found in NIX!
(https://i.ibb.co/3yW61k0x/Image-4-16-25-at-7-54-PM.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JwDfVYnb/Screenshot-2025-04-18-at-6-32-23-PM.png)