JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Watson Phillips on April 16, 2025, 04:32:16 PM
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Why would an Experienced street wise officer like Tippit leave himself completely vulnerable to someone he suspected to be armed & had just committed capitol murder , by remaining seated behind the wheel of his patrol car and beckoning the person to speak to him thru the wide open passengers side window ?
I know he did not learn that in the Police Academy
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Yes, I've always found that very bizarre and open to many interpretations. Take it away guys.
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Growing up in my hometown in the early 70's the police started a program that centered around establishing relations with the community in which pre-teen youth , with their parents written permission, could spend a day riding with police for a day in their patrol car.
For a kid like me at the time it was something I was dying to do and my parents were glad to let me do so .
Being a young excited child, I think you had to be over 10 years old, in a brand new often imagined about environment I remember the experience fondly.
One thing that I do recall is that the officers were all business if there was any type of official stop , making sure I was securely locked in the car as they went to investigate a reported crime or suspected person.
The only time I saw them sit in the car talking to someone thru the window was if it was a person well known to them, not part of any official business, and they were completely at ease in doing so.
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One thing that I do recall is that the officers were all business if there was any type of official stop , making sure I was securely locked in the car as they went to investigate a reported crime or suspected person.
The only time I saw them sit in the car talking to someone thru the window was if it was a person well known to them, not part of any official business, and they were completely at ease in doing so.
Absolutely. It seems like they already knew each other.
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Absolutely. It seems like they already knew each other.
Wowie zowie!
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Why is there any reason to think Tippit had any idea he was encountering an armed, cold-blooded killer? We'll never know why Tippit stopped or what was going through his mind, but it's completely ad hoc to say the stop was because he suspected Oswald was JFK's assassin. I don't say there is no issue at all here, but the suggestion there was something bizarre goes too far. Perhaps Oswald caught his attention for the same reason he caught Brewer's attention at the shoe store. Tippit pulled over just to check and Oswald was his usual cucumber-cool self until Tippit started to get out of the car, whereupon Oswald knew the jig was up because he was carrying a gun.
FWIW, in my teens in the 1960s I was stopped by police in Arizona a sufficiently embarrassing number of times that I had to provide an explanation to the State Bar when I became a lawyer in 1982. At no time did any officer approach me as though I might be a crazed killer.
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Why is there any reason to think Tippit had any idea he was encountering an armed, cold-blooded killer?
Who do you believe every cop in Dallas looking for at that moment ?
J." D. Tippit was one of the few officers in the Dallas Police Force not to be called to Dealey Plaza to help investigate the assassination. Instead, at 12.45 p.m. he was sent to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas."
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Who do you believe every cop in Dallas looking for at that moment ?
J." D. Tippit was one of the few officers in the Dallas Police Force not to be called to Dealey Plaza to help investigate the assassination. Instead, at 12.45 p.m. he was sent to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas."
You have a typo of omission in your question.
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Who do you believe every cop in Dallas looking for at that moment ?
J." D. Tippit was one of the few officers in the Dallas Police Force not to be called to Dealey Plaza to help investigate the assassination. Instead, at 12.45 p.m. he was sent to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas."
Do Tippit's actions suggest he thought he was looking for a cold-blooded killer? He was sent to Oak Cliff not to "cover that sector in the search for the cold-blooded killer" but to make sure Oak Cliff had sufficient police coverage for other matters. At least that's my understanding. Bill Brown can surely respond more intelligently than I on this, but I see no reason to think "this might be the killer of JFK" would have been in the forefront of Tippit's mind. Even though it happened to be true, would it have seemed likely that the assassin of JFK would be walking calmly down a residential sidewalk in Oak Cliff?
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Do Tippit's actions suggest he thought he was looking for a cold-blooded killer? He was sent to Oak Cliff not to "cover that sector in the search for the cold-blooded killer" but to make sure Oak Cliff had sufficient police coverage for other matters.
Officer Tippet's orders included a directive to disregard anyone matching the general description of the president's assassin currently on the loose in the city ?
Really ?
What orders would have had rendered Tippit unconscious enough to be beckoning a total stranger, matching the general description of the assassin , to the passenger side window as he sat non-defensively and at risk?
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Officer Tippet's orders included a directive to disregard anyone matching the general description of the president's assassin currently on the loose in the city ?
Really ?
What orders would have had rendered Tippit unconscious enough to be beckoning a total stranger, matching the general description of the assassin , to the passenger side window as he sat non-defensively and at risk?
Gasp . . . do you think the evil, evil bad guys and/or the really, really bad girls sent Tippit to kill their "patsy" in Oak Cliff?
(BTW, you misspelled Tippit in your first sentence.)
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Officer Tippet's orders included a directive to disregard anyone matching the general description of the president's assassin currently on the loose in the city ?
Really ?
What orders would have had rendered Tippit unconscious enough to be beckoning a total stranger, matching the general description of the assassin , to the passenger side window as he sat non-defensively and at risk?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zn4810Qz/Oswald-tippit-follow-and-shot.gif)
Why do CT's always speak in riddles and never state outright where their latest theory goes?
Are you suggesting that Tippit stopped Oswald because he knew him, but then why did Tippit have his gun unholstered and exactly when did Tippit unholster his gun?
Mr. BALL. The pistol was out of the holster?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir; out of the holster, and it was unsnapped. It was on his right side. He was laying with the gun under him.
BTW, you being extremely experienced with your half century old memory of when you were not even a teenager and spent a day with some cops, what should have Tippit done?
JohnM
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Gasp . . . do you think the evil, evil bad guys and/or the really, really bad girls sent Tippet to kill their "patsy" in Oak Cliff?
Tippet wanted him bad for something .
"It is intriguing, to say the least, that Oswald's departure from the rooming house occurred only moments after the strange appearance and horn-blowing of the patrol car from the Dallas Police Department. Exhaustive investigations have virtually established that the only police car officially in the vicinity was that of Officer J. D. Tippit. Less than fifteen minutes after this incident. Officer Tippit was savagely murdered and left dead in the street about a mile from Oswald's rooming house."
His pregnant girlfriend would not be of much use in her job stripping in Jack Ruby's club very much longer and would need $ support single, unemployed , with Tippit's baby
Maybe he was going to ask the patsy for a loan ?
Or maybe Jack Ruby told him of a different way out of the jam he was in ?
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Gasp . . . do you think the evil, evil bad guys and/or the really, really bad girls sent Tippit to kill their "patsy" in Oak Cliff?
(BTW, you misspelled Tippit in your first sentence.)
Had that been his mission, I assume he would've pulled over 25 yards behind Oswald, got out, and blown him away. Oh, I get it - to make it "look good," he had been instructed to wait until Oswald pulled his gun. This quickly becomes like my CE 399 thread - about 50 questions arise as to what possible sense this would make. In fact, let's play that game. I hereby stipulate that Tippit had been instructed to whack Oswald. Take us through, my fellow CTers, how this all would have worked and what possible sense it would have made. Please start from the moment Oswald exits the TSBD.
Alternatively, if you think Tippit and Oswald were acquainted and were making some sort of connection, explain to us what that could possibly have been about and why it went so awry.
I'd rather not, but I can post 50 specific questions to get you started. It frankly didn't go so well, my fellow CTers, on the CE 399 thread.
I frankly lean toward Tippit simply not making the connection that some guy walking along a residential sidewalk in Oak Cliff might be the assassin - or, even if he did, that what appears in retrospect as too leisurely of an approach wasn't unreasonable since he did unholster his gun.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Zn4810Qz/Oswald-tippit-follow-and-shot.gif)
Why do CT's always speak in riddles and never state outright where their latest theory goes?
Are you suggesting that Tippit stopped Oswald because he knew him
Yes the body language of calling Oswald over to the passenger side window for a casual talk suggests they knew each other.
For what reason are you suggesting he called him over for a casual talk ?
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BTW, you being extremely experienced with your half century old memory of when you were not even a teenager and spent a day with some cops, what should have Tippit done?
JohnM
Safely Handling Suspicious Person Stops
June 26, 2008
"One Officer Stops
Distance Equals Time
The Reactionary Gap is a concept based on the rule that distance equals time. The gap or distance you stay away from a suspect provides time for you to respond. At touching distance a suspect can assault you before you can react and respond. Based on this response time deficit it is recommended that you maintain at least six feet from the suspect. As you close the gap to an offender to frisk or handcuff you must do so anticipating resistance and with your hands up ready to respond.
The distance from a suspect leaning into the passenger side window to the officer sitting like a duck behind the wheel being considerably less than the law enforcement recommended standard of " at least six feet distance " ,
[/b]
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Yes the body language of calling Oswald over the passenger side window for a casual talk suggests they knew each other.
For what reason are you suggesting he called him over for a casual talk ?
You're still being elusive on where you think this all goes?
But ok, let's say they came across each other and we'll explore the possibilities;
1) They knew each other in not so friendly terms and Tippit pulled over to find out what Oswald was doing in the middle of the day on some back street and perhaps Tippit already had his gun unholstered and Oswald noticed and started moving away which prompted Tippit to get out?
2) They knew each and were friends, so why did Tippit get out of the car with an unholstered weapon?
3) Tippit didn't have a clue who the guy was but for some reason Oswald's actions, like perhaps changing directions, walking faster, looking away or whatever and this made Tippit suspicious, so he investigated?
4) Tippit was on the look out for a man 5 foot ten and slender so he pulled over and nonchalantly asked Oswald if he killed the President but this is absurd because as Lance points out, Tippit would pull over way behind and get out fully armed.
There are possibly other options but at this stage I pick what's behind box number 3!
Tippit was not near the Depository, this was about 45 minutes after the assassination, the weapon was a rifle, the chances that the assassin was walking around the back streets of Oak Cliff was very unlikely and Tippit doing his job saw a suspicious looking guy and just investigated.
What reinforces Oswald's suspicious behaviour is just shortly thereafter Oswald while outside of Brewers shoe shop was well aware of the Police and was actively avoiding them.
Mr. BELIN - When did he go in now? What did you hear at the time that he stepped into this lobby area?
Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.
JohnM
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Safely Handling Suspicious Person Stops
June 26, 2008
"One Officer Stops
Distance Equals Time
The Reactionary Gap is a concept based on the rule that distance equals time. The gap or distance you stay away from a suspect provides time for you to respond. At touching distance a suspect can assault you before you can react and respond. Based on this response time deficit it is recommended that you maintain at least six feet from the suspect. As you close the gap to an offender to frisk or handcuff you must do so anticipating resistance and with your hands up ready to respond.
The distance from a suspect leaning into the passenger side window to the officer sitting like a duck behind the wheel being considerably less than the law enforcement recommended standard of " at least six feet distance " ,
[/b]
Nice try, but your "One officer stops" is specifically talking about being out in the open and outside of a car and how to avoid a physical assault!! Whereas Tippit was inside the relative safety of his car which had the window rolled up and Oswald spoke through the little vent window.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrtSRFx6/Tippit-Police-car-open-vent.gif)
JohnM
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Well, this was the early 1960's things were more laid back than today. Tippit had no part in any plot to kill Oswald that was Ruby's job.
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You're still being elusive on where you think this all goes?
But ok, let's say they came across each other and we'll explore the possibilities;
1) They knew each other in not so friendly terms and Tippit pulled over to find out what Oswald was doing in the middle of the day on some back street and perhaps Tippit already had his gun unholstered and Oswald noticed and started moving away which prompted Tippit to get out?
2) They knew each and were friends, so why did Tippit get out of the car with an unholstered weapon?
3) Tippit didn't have a clue who the guy was but for some reason Oswald's actions, like perhaps changing directions, walking faster, looking away or whatever and this made Tippit suspicious, so he investigated?
4) Tippit was on the look out for a man 5 foot ten and slender so he pulled over and nonchalantly asked Oswald if he killed the President but this is absurd because as Lance points out, Tippit would pull over way behind and get out fully armed.
There are possibly other options but at this stage I pick what's behind box number 3!
Tippit was not near the Depository, this was about 45 minutes after the assassination, the weapon was a rifle, the chances that the assassin was walking around the back streets of Oak Cliff was very unlikely and Tippit doing his job saw a suspicious looking guy and just investigated.
What reinforces Oswald's suspicious behaviour is just shortly thereafter Oswald while outside of Brewers shoe shop was well aware of the Police and was actively avoiding them.
Mr. BELIN - When did he go in now? What did you hear at the time that he stepped into this lobby area?
Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.
JohnM
Your choice #3 does not take into account Tippits's signaling for Oswald to come forth from the rooming house just 15 minutes prior to his being gunned down ?
A first effort by Tippit for Oswald to respond at the rooming house a couple taps of the horn, more subtle than his creeping along beside him down the street talking to him, as Oswald who was no dummy, has now seen the rouse for what it is and is telling Tippit he will take care of himself, thanks but ,no thanks
You can literally see Tippit's efforts to convince Oswald that he is to be his guide through the ominous crisis that now enveloped him if he will just get in the car escalating level by level.
" Poor dumb cop" is right
Wherever alleyway or deserted spot it was that Tippit was told to bring Oswald too they undoubtedly both with were going to be found dead in " Officer vs Fugitive" shootout .
And who is behind box number 5) With plan B to handle Tippet's failure of plan A , why non-other that Tippit's good friend, and pimp for Tippit's now pregnant stripper girlfriend, Mr. Jack Ruby.
"It is intriguing, to say the least, that Oswald's departure from the rooming house occurred only moments after the strange appearance and horn-blowing of the patrol car from the Dallas Police Department. Exhaustive investigations have virtually established that the only police car officially in the vicinity was that of Officer J. D. Tippit. Less than fifteen minutes after this incident. Officer Tippit was savagely murdered and left dead in the street about a mile from Oswald's rooming house."
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Dale Myers specifically addresses this issue at the Tippit memorial site: https://www.jdtippit.com/faq.htm
In the FAQ "Why did Tippit stop Oswald?" he takes us through the witnesses who support that Oswald abruptly changed direction from west to east and that this caught Tippit's eye.
The site prohibits copying, but the FAQ is fairly long and detailed.
This makes more sense to me than any other explanation. As Myers suggests, the radioed description of the suspect was scarcely an exact match for Oswald; the likelihood that the assassin would be strolling on the sidewalk in a residential neighborhood of Oak Cliff seems very remote; Tippit had been assigned to provide coverage in Oak Cliff, not to hunt for the assassin; and the probability is that after Oswald caught his attention he was just doing his job in a half-assed, albeit fatal, way.
Was every DPD officer who spotted a thin young guy anywhere in the city limits expected to immediately go into Possible Assassin Mode, pull his gun and call for back-up? THAT could have been exciting, eh?
I see that Watson also raised the "police car in front of Beckley issue," which I have nicely solved as a taxi on another thread, or maybe not.
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Dale Myers specifically addresses this issue at the Tippit memorial site: https://www.jdtippit.com/faq.htm
In the FAQ "Why did Tippit stop Oswald?" he takes us through the witnesses who support that Oswald abruptly changed direction from west to east and that this caught Tippit's eye.
The site prohibits copying, but the FAQ is fairly long and detailed.
This makes more sense to me than any other explanation. As Myers suggests, the radioed description of the suspect was scarcely an exact match for Oswald; the likelihood that the assassin would be strolling on the sidewalk in a residential neighborhood of Oak Cliff seems very remote; Tippit had been assigned to provide coverage in Oak Cliff, not to hunt for the assassin; and the probability is that after Oswald caught his attention he was just doing his job in a half-assed, albeit fatal, way.
Was every DPD officer who spotted a thin young guy anywhere in the CT limits expected to immediately go into Possible Assassin Mode, pull his gun and call for back-up? THAT could have been exciting, eh?
I see that Watson also raised the "police car in front of Beckley issue," which I have nicely solved as a taxi on another thread, or maybe not.
I don’t think that there is any way we will ever know for certain what caused Tippit to pull over. But Dale Myers does make a good case for that theory. I have also imagined this: provided Dale is right about the direction of LHO walking west, it appears to me that the taxi cab parked on the corner would have been prominent in LHO’s vision as he approached it. A theory that includes LHO either raising his hand to hail the taxi or LHO beginning to run towards the taxi, or both, in an effort to try to make sure that the taxi didn’t leave before he got there, could have gotten Tippit’s attention. Tippit might have even thought LHO was raising his hand as a gesture for Tippit to pull over. But, again, I don’t beleive that we will never know these things for certain.
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Your choice #3 does not take into account Tippits's signaling for Oswald to come forth from the rooming house just 15 minutes prior to his being gunned down ?
A first effort by Tippit for Oswald to respond at the rooming house a couple taps of the horn, more subtle than his creeping along beside him down the street talking to him, as Oswald who was no dummy, has now seen the rouse for what it is and is telling Tippit he will take care of himself, thanks but ,no thanks
You can literally see Tippit's efforts to convince Oswald that he is to be his guide through the ominous crisis that now enveloped him if he will just get in the car escalating level by level.
" Poor dumb cop" is right
Wherever alleyway or deserted spot it was that Tippit was told to bring Oswald too they undoubtedly both with were going to be found dead in " Officer vs Fugitive" shootout .
And who is behind box number 5) With plan B to handle Tippet's failure of plan A , why non-other that Tippit's good friend, and pimp for Tippit's now pregnant stripper girlfriend, Mr. Jack Ruby.
"It is intriguing, to say the least, that Oswald's departure from the rooming house occurred only moments after the strange appearance and horn-blowing of the patrol car from the Dallas Police Department. Exhaustive investigations have virtually established that the only police car officially in the vicinity was that of Officer J. D. Tippit. Less than fifteen minutes after this incident. Officer Tippit was savagely murdered and left dead in the street about a mile from Oswald's rooming house."
Sorry to rain on your parade but the "Police Car" that Earlene allegedly saw had two uniformed Policemen contained within! Oops!
Mr. BALL. And you say that there were two uniformed policemen in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, and it was in a black car. It wasn't an accident squad car at all.
Mr. BALL. Were there two uniformed policemen in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, yes.
And just think about the timing, this was before mobile phones and for the few minutes that Oswald was in his room which according to Earlene was just long enough to get his jacket and then he walked out pretty fast, then in this thin slice of time a Police Car "tit-titted" just outside and the Police Car didn't wait for Oswald, but just drove away, Why?
Anyway, how on Earth did Tippit or whoever was driving know that Oswald was in the building at that exact time? Oswald could have been on a bus, Oswald then walked to the cab station and got in a cab which had to negotiate traffic and traffic lights and then Oswald got out of a cab way past the Rooming House and then he walked back. There are so many random variables and each event takes time, therefore the probability that the "cops" knew that Oswald was in his room at that precise time is extremely slim.
Mr. BALL. Did a police car pass the house there and honked?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. When was that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He came in the house.
Mr. BALL. When he came in the house ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. When he came in the house and went to his room, you know how the sidewalk runs?
Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ?
Mr. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it.
Mr. BALL. You recall he went out zipping it-was he running or walking?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He was walking fast-he was making tracks pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. And one of the officers sounded the horn ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Just kind of a "tit-tit"--twice
JohnM
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Sorry to rain on your parade but the "Police Car" that Earlene allegedly saw had two uniformed Policemen contained within! Oops!
I'm tellin' ya, it was a taxi and its passenger! When you put together who Aunt Earlene physically was, her shifting tale, and the unlikelihood that any police car was actually in front of Beckley, Lance's Taxi LN Factoid is as solid as factoids get!
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Sorry to rain on your parade but the "Police Car" that Earlene allegedly saw had two uniformed Policemen contained within! Oops!
And of course the Dallas police force had that day's patrol record of a two man team working Oswald's neighborhood?
You are a little slow on the uptake .
But you are making progress & getting warmer .
Appreciate your help .
Good Lookin out !
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I'm tellin' ya, it was a taxi and its passenger! When you put together who Aunt Earlene physically was, her shifting tale, and the unlikelihood that any police car was actually in front of Beckley, Lance's Taxi LN Factoid is as solid as factoids get!
Well, Earlene does say it was a black car and not an "accident squad car" whatever that means? Also worth noting is that the black car was headed towards a 5 way intersection which presumably had traffic, so a little "tit-tit" to help the traffic keep moving makes sense?
Mr. BALL. And you say that there were two uniformed policemen in the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, and it was in a black car. It wasn't an accident squad car at all.
JohnM
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I'm tellin' ya, it was a taxi and its passenger! When you put together who Aunt Earlene physically was, her shifting tale, and the unlikelihood that any police car was actually in front of Beckley, Lance's Taxi LN Factoid is as solid as factoids get!
Your "clever" theory does not smell any less concocted on this thread when compared to the actual WC testimony of Mrs. Roberts
Deliberately omitted by yourself either by hope to deceive or ignorance , one ?
Your "conspiracy Theory" is more concocted than "Clever"
Survey says your slippery theory is a bust according to Mrs Roberts testimony , which you have completely misrepresented , either in deliberate dishonesty or ignorance , one .
Your purposedly left out omissions include the fact that Mrs. Roberts testified that she actually worked for & was on a friendly basis with a police officer and his wife , and it was not uncommon for him to stop by the rooming house to relay messages from his wife. back and forth
Not only was She was very familiar with make and model of the patrol cars used , she was very familiar with her friends particular number of his car, and at first glance thought it was his car ( 170) but soon saw that it was not his car.
the police car that I knew and had worked for so, I forgot about it. I seen
it at the time, but I don’t remember now what it was.
Mr. BALL. Did you report the number of the car to anyone?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I think I did-I’m not sure, because I-at that particular
time I remembered it.
Mr. BALL. You remembered the number of the car?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I think it was-106 it seems to me like it was 106, but I do
know what theirs was-it was 170 and it wasn’t their car.
443
Mr. BALL. It was not 170?
Mrs. ROBERTS. The people I worked for n-as 170.
Mr. BALL. Did you report that number to anyone, did you report this incident
to anyone?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, I told the FBI and the Secret Service both when they was
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And of course the Dallas police force had that day's patrol record of a two man team working Oswald's neighborhood?
You are a little slow on the uptake .
But you are making progress & getting warmer .
Appreciate your help .
Good Lookin out !
So, now you don't think it was Tippit blowing his horn?
Your choice #3 does not take into account Tippits's signaling for Oswald to come forth from the rooming house just 15 minutes prior to his being gunned down ?
A first effort by Tippit for Oswald to respond at the rooming house a couple taps of the horn, more subtle than his creeping along beside him down the street talking to him, as Oswald who was no dummy, has now seen the rouse for what it is and is telling Tippit he will take care of himself, thanks but ,no thanks
You can literally see Tippit's efforts to convince Oswald that he is to be his guide through the ominous crisis that now enveloped him if he will just get in the car escalating level by level.
Or maybe Tippit had a blow up companion?
(https://www.thinkers360.com/tl/assets/images/publication/publication20230221080220.jpg)
Just admit that you are making this up as you go along and that's fine because no one has ever made a plausible alternative to the official version but you Watson, you could be the man that makes history!
JohnM
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Mr. BALL. Did this police car stop directly in front of your house?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--it stopped directly in front of my house and it just "tip-tip" and that's the way Officer Alexander and Charles Burnely would do when they stopped, and I went to the door and looked and saw it wasn't their number.
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For example, how many of us knew that, although Earlene Roberts was besieged by reporters soon after Oswald was apprehended, nearly a full week passed before she mentioned anything to anyone about a police car stopping by the house? I didn't know that. Yet the written record is unequivocal about it, and Myers' personal interviews with a number of newsmen and law enforcement officers who questioned Roberts at the time confirm that only later did the story about the police car arise.
Come to think of it, did anyone ever look into the two police officers, Burnley and Alexander, that Roberts reportedly knew, whom she said she initially thought must be paying her a visit? Surely someone MUST have. But no, Myers is the first. He tracked down Charles T. Burnley, the one and only "Burnley" on the police force in 1963, who told Myers he'd never so much as heard of Earlene Roberts or her story until being informed of it around 1991-92. Roberts did know a DPD officer named Floyd J. Alexander, Sr., though, the man she describes in her testimony as a former employer. Myers found Alexander and confirmed this. The only problem is that Alexander had resigned from the force in 1957, leading one to wonder why Mrs. Roberts would be expecting him to visit in a squad car in 1963.
Perhaps it isn't so strange, then, that Alexander recalled Roberts as someone who wasn't "very bright, had a limited number of friends, and would do almost anything to get attention." The last word may belong to Roberts' former employer Gladys Johnson, who recalled having fired Roberts "a time or two" for some of her strange habits, one of which, Mrs. Johnson told Myers, was "[j]ust sitting down and making up tales."
https://www.jfk-online.com/myers.html
JohnM
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Mr. BALL. Did this police car stop directly in front of your house?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--it stopped directly in front of my house and it just "tip-tip" and that's the way Officer Alexander and Charles Burnely would do when they stopped, and I went to the door and looked and saw it wasn't their number.
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For example, how many of us knew that, although Earlene Roberts was besieged by reporters soon after Oswald was apprehended, nearly a full week passed before she mentioned anything to anyone about a police car stopping by the house? I didn't know that. Yet the written record is unequivocal about it, and Myers' personal interviews with a number of newsmen and law enforcement officers who questioned Roberts at the time confirm that only later did the story about the police car arise.
Come to think of it, did anyone ever look into the two police officers, Burnley and Alexander, that Roberts reportedly knew, whom she said she initially thought must be paying her a visit? Surely someone MUST have. But no, Myers is the first. He tracked down Charles T. Burnley, the one and only "Burnley" on the police force in 1963, who told Myers he'd never so much as heard of Earlene Roberts or her story until being informed of it around 1991-92. Roberts did know a DPD officer named Floyd J. Alexander, Sr., though, the man she describes in her testimony as a former employer. Myers found Alexander and confirmed this. The only problem is that Alexander had resigned from the force in 1957, leading one to wonder why Mrs. Roberts would be expecting him to visit in a squad car in 1963.
Perhaps it isn't so strange, then, that Alexander recalled Roberts as someone who wasn't "very bright, had a limited number of friends, and would do almost anything to get attention." The last word may belong to Roberts' former employer Gladys Johnson, who recalled having fired Roberts "a time or two" for some of her strange habits, one of which, Mrs. Johnson told Myers, was "[j]ust sitting down and making up tales."
https://www.jfk-online.com/myers.html
JohnM
I'm sort of sorry I started my taxi thread because now I'm jumping between the two, but I truly believe the plausible alternatives are (1) a taxi or (2) the event simply never happened. Either of those seems to me FAR more plausible than what Earlene said. Contrary to what Walton says, I don't feel as though I'm misrepresenting her testimony so much as highlighting her self-admitted physical limitations, her unquestionable confusion, and the implausibility of her tale. To suggest that the tit-titting "police" car was Tippit or had anything to do with the death of Tippit strikes me as one of those scenarios that cannot pass the "What sense would that make?" test.
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To suggest that the tit-titting "police" car was Tippit or had anything to do with the death of Tippit strikes me as one of those scenarios that cannot pass the "What sense would that make?" test.
If Oswald stayed on the bus then he wouldn't have been at the rooming house when the toot-tooting happened.
If Oswald got out of the cab when it was at the rooming house then he wouldn't have been at the rooming house when the toot-tooting happened.
The only narrative I can suggest is that the Police Car drove by and saw Oswald walking to the Rooming House so they decided to stop by, toot and then keep going, which is just absurd or the most logical scenario, Earlene after a week of being questioned added some spice!
JohnM
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To suggest that the tit-titting "police" car was Tippit or had anything to do with the death of Tippit strikes me as one of those scenarios that cannot pass the "What sense would that make?" test.
Evidenced by the fact that Family Man, War Hero Tippit was soon to become daddy to the child of one his buddy's strippers , who by the way was about to become an unemployed unwed former stripper in financial need , Oswald was not the only one in a desperate bind.
Interesting how the individuals who are in desperate need seem to end up dead in connection to jack Ruby .
So says Chief Justice Warren :
When Chief Justice Warren and other members of the Commission on June 7, 1964, interviewed Ruby at the Dallas County jail. General Counsel Rankin told Ruby:
There was a story that you were sitting in your Carousel Club with Mr. (Bernard) Weissman, Officer Tippit, and another man who has been called a rich oil man, at one time shortly before the assassination. Can you tell us anything about that?'
To which Ruby replied with a counter-question: 'Who was the rich oil man?'
After that, unbelievably, the subject was dropped. Apparently, Messrs. Warren and Rankin felt they were getting too warm. Ruby's reaction indicated that he was ready to talk since he had nothing to lose. But the Commission members
weren't looking for the truth. They shied away from it, as from the plague. And so the topic was quickly shifted. Ruby
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Evidenced by the fact that Family Man, War Hero Tippit was soon to become daddy to the child of one his buddy's strippers , who by the way was about to become an unemployed unwed former stripper in financial need , Oswald was not the only one in a desperate bind.
Interesting how the individuals who are in desperate need seem to end up dead in connection to jack Ruby .
So says Chief Justice Warren :
When Chief Justice Warren and other members of the Commission on June 7, 1964, interviewed Ruby at the Dallas County jail. General Counsel Rankin told Ruby:
There was a story that you were sitting in your Carousel Club with Mr. (Bernard) Weissman, Officer Tippit, and another man who has been called a rich oil man, at one time shortly before the assassination. Can you tell us anything about that?'
To which Ruby replied with a counter-question: 'Who was the rich oil man?'
After that, unbelievably, the subject was dropped. Apparently, Messrs. Warren and Rankin felt they were getting too warm. Ruby's reaction indicated that he was ready to talk since he had nothing to lose. But the Commission members
weren't looking for the truth. They shied away from it, as from the plague. And so the topic was quickly shifted. Ruby
Mr. RANKIN. Did you know Officer Tippit?
Mr. RUBY. I knew there was three Tippits on the force. The only one I knew used to work for the special services, and I am certain this wasn't the Tippit, this wasn't the man.
Mr. RANKIN. The man that was murdered. There was a story that you were seen sitting in your Carousel Club with Mr. Weissman, Officer Tippit, and another who has been called a rich oil man, at one time shortly before the assassination. Can you tell us anything about that?
Mr. RUBY. Who was the rich oil man?
Mr. RANKIN. Can you remember? We haven't been told. We are just trying to find out anything that you know about him.
Mr. RUBY. I am the one that made such a big issue of Bernard Weissman's ad. Maybe you do things to cover up, if you are capable of doing it.
As a matter of fact, SaPersonay afternoon we went over to the Turf Bar lounge, and it was a whole hullabaloo, and I showed the pictures "Impeach Earl Warren" to Bellocchio, and he saw the pictures and got very emotional.
And Bellocchio said, "Why did the newspaper take this ad of Weissman?"
And Bellocchio said, "I have got to leave Dallas."
And suddenly after making that statement, I realized it is his incapability, and suddenly you do things impulsively, and suddenly you realize if you love the city, you stay here and you make the best of it. And there were witnesses.
I said, "The city was good enough for you all before this. Now you feel that way about it." And that was Bellocchio.
As far as Tippit, it is not Tippitts, it is not Tippitts it is Tippit.
Mr. RANKIN. This Weissman and the rich oil man, did you ever have a conversation with them?
Mr. RUBY. There was only a few. Bill Rudman from the YMCA, and I haven't seen him in years.
And there is a Bill Howard, but he is not a rich oil man. He owns the Stork Club now. He used to dabble in oil.
Chief Justice WARREN. This story was given by a lawyer by the name of Mark Lane, who is representing Mrs. Marguerite Oswald, the mother of Lee Harvey Oswald, and it was in the paper, so we subpenaed him, and he testified that someone had given him information to the effect that a week or two before President Kennedy was assassinated, that in your Carousel Club you and Weissman and Tippit, Officer Tippit, the one who was killed, and a rich oil man had an interview or conversation for an hour or two.
And we asked him who it was that told him, and he said that it was confidential and he couldn't tell at the moment, but that he would find out for us if whether he could be released or not from his confidential relationship.
He has never done it, and we have written him several letters asking him to disclose the name of that person, and he has never complied.
Mr. RUBY. Isn't that foolish? If a man is patriotic enough in the first place, who am I to be concerned if he wasn't an informer.
I am incarcerated, nothing to be worried about anyone hurting me.
Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, I am not questioning your story at all. I wanted you to know the background of this thing, and to know that it was with us only hearsay. But I did feel that our record should show that we would ask you the question and that you would answer it, and you have answered it.
Mr. RUBY. How many days prior to the assassination was that?
Chief Justice WARREN. My recollection is that it was a week or two. Is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. Did anyone have any knowledge that their beloved President was going to visit here prior to that time, or what is the definite time that they knew he was coming to Dallas?
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I don't know just what those dates are.
Mr. RUBY. I see.
Chief Justice WARREN. I just don't know. Well, we wanted to ask you that question, because this man had so testified, and we have been trying ever since to get him to give the source of his information, but he will not do it, so we will leave that matter as it is.
JohnM
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Evidenced by the fact that Family Man, War Hero Tippit was soon to become daddy to the child of one his buddy's strippers , who by the way was about to become an unemployed unwed former stripper in financial need , Oswald was not the only one in a desperate bind.
Interesting how the individuals who are in desperate need seem to end up dead in connection to jack Ruby .
So says Chief Justice Warren:
Maybe it's just me - really - but I often have a difficult time following the connections you're trying to make.
If we stipulate that Tippit was about to become the father of an illegitimate child by a Ruby-affiliated stripper who was about to become unemployed - a massively generous stipulation, I'm sure you'll agree - how in your thinking would this put Tippit in a "desperate bind" on November 22nd and how would it connect to a police car with two uniformed officers and a three-digit number toot-tooting in front of the Beckley rooming house and then driving off?
For that matter, how would it connect to Tippit stopping Oswald and negligently allowing himself to be shot? I'm really not following the logic.
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Maybe it's just me - really - but I often have a difficult time following the connections you're trying to make.
If we stipulate that Tippit was about to become the father of an illegitimate child by a Ruby-affiliated stripper who was about to become unemployed - a massively generous stipulation, I'm sure you'll agree - how in your thinking would this put Tippit in a "desperate bind" on November 22nd and how would it connect to a police car with two uniformed officers and a three-digit number toot-tooting in front of the Beckley rooming house and then driving off?
For that matter, how would it connect to Tippit stopping Oswald and negligently allowing himself to be shot? I'm really not following the logic.
Police are the perfect assassins & the perfect victims of assassination
Both circumstances can be owed up to their chosen profession .
Policemen are murdered all the time and nobody would ever question it happened for any other reason than the uniform they are wearing.
Likewise a policeman can gun down a fleeing dangerous criminal and no one would ever suspect an ulterior motive for the police doing so.
If after all he and Oswald's socializing Tippit FINALLY got out of the car because he considered Oswald a dangerous criminal why would he have not called for back up as is standard procedure?
He is in a car , Oswald on foot there was no way Oswald was going to escape anywhere.
Why did Tippit break such basic fundamentals of police protocol , walking right into the line of fire and getting himself killed , when he could have had that entire area swarming with police cars with one call.
Every action screams the fact that Tippit was trying to get Oswald in the car as quietly and with as little notice as possible.
It was no coincidence after A seasoned policeman broke every fundamental rule trying to get Oswald in a police car, getting himself killed in the process that Oswald was only hours from himself getting shot down surrounded by police in a police station.
None was more acquainted with that fact that with Oswald & Tippit dead he represented the most obvious lose end to be taken care of than Jack Ruby.
Who do you think Jack Ruby was so afraid of killing him now that he was in custody ?
Ruby knew the drill only to well .
Jack Ruby tells Earl Warren his life is in danger
Jack Ruby tells Earl Warren his life is in danger
Ruby told Earl Warren that he would "come clean" if he was moved from Dallas and allowed to testify in Washington. He told Warren "my life is in danger here". He added: "I want to tell the truth, and I can't tell it here." Warren refused to have Ruby moved and so he refused to tell what he knew about the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
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Police are the perfect assassins & the perfect victims of assassination
Both circumstances can be owed up to their chosen profession .
Policemen are murdered all the time and nobody would ever question it happened for any other reason than the uniform they are wearing.
The Dallas Police Department Memorial Page shows that between 1951-1967 only 3 Police Officers died from gunfire and another 3 from vehicle crashes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyLqF0N3/Dallas-Police-killed-in-line-of-duty-1951-1967.jpg)
https://www.odmp.org/agency/924-dallas-police-department-texas
JohnM
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This notion of Tippit being in Ruby's inner circle is very interesting. What is the evidence of that? (Does this deserve a separate thread?).
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FWIW, in my teens in the 1960s I was stopped by police in Arizona a sufficiently embarrassing number of times that I had to provide an explanation to the State Bar when I became a lawyer in 1982. At no time did any officer approach me as though I might be a crazed killer.
That requires being a minority.
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Dale Myers specifically addresses this issue at the Tippit memorial site: https://www.jdtippit.com/faq.htm
In the FAQ "Why did Tippit stop Oswald?" he takes us through the witnesses who support that Oswald abruptly changed direction from west to east and that this caught Tippit's eye.
It's purely contrived. Not only was Helen "Utter Screwball" Markham the only witness who claimed that the man was walking East (there's no good reason to believe Tatum was even there), nobody saw this alleged "direction change", nor did anybody (in particular Scoggins and Markham) see the man go by twice.
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I don’t think that there is any way we will ever know for certain what caused Tippit to pull over. But Dale Myers does make a good case for that theory. I have also imagined this: provided Dale is right about the direction of LHO walking west, it appears to me that the taxi cab parked on the corner would have been prominent in LHO’s vision as he approached it. A theory that includes LHO either raising his hand to hail the taxi or LHO beginning to run towards the taxi, or both, in an effort to try to make sure that the taxi didn’t leave before he got there, could have gotten Tippit’s attention. Tippit might have even thought LHO was raising his hand as a gesture for Tippit to pull over. But, again, I don’t beleive that we will never know these things for certain.
Fair points.