JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on April 20, 2025, 02:04:03 PM
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Marilyn Sitzman on JFK"s Head Wound
She thought the shots came from the TSBD and she pointed to the right side of the head as the location of the head wound. And Abraham Zapruder agreed.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/marilyn-sitzman-on-jfk-s-head-wound (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/marilyn-sitzman-on-jfk-s-head-wound)
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Thanks for posting the Sitzman interview. She makes it clear that they watched the JFK Limo make the turn from Houston onto Elm St. Yet, somehow Zapruder was fooled into filming those 3 Lead Motorcycles making that turn from Houston onto Elm St and then somehow he Missed filming the JFK Limo making this very same turn? Seriously? Interestingly, this turn would be exactly where Max Holland claims a Shot struck the traffic light/support beam. It's also the location where shot(s) were reported to be striking/sparking off of the street. The Zapruder Film is consistently ballyhoo'd by the News Media as basically the JFK Assassination Rosetta Stone. The Current Zapruder Film is a total misdirection. And this misdirection includes the JFK (R) Temple Blowout that NONE of the Parkland Hospital Dr's reported seeing as they treated JFK only minutes after the Kill Shot.
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Isn't it interesting, and really revealing, that the same doctors who believed the head wound was in the rear/back of the head never said they saw a bullet entrance wound? So, where did the bullet enter JFK's head?
Shorter: Why didn't they see the bullet entrance?
As to the film: Zapruder's granddaughter, Alexandria Zapruder, wrote a very moving and detailed book on her grandfather and how the film came to exist. The Zapruders arrived here from Russia after escaping the anti-semitism and pogroms of Czarist Russia (Abraham was born in Ukraine). They were lifelong Democrats and Abraham Zapruder in particular greatly admired JFK. His wife was so upset at the assassination that she repeatedly refused to watch the film.
One detail she mentions is that, according to what Sitzman told her mother, Zapruder saw the lead motorcycles and started filming; then recognized it wasn't JFK/the limo and stopped filming (to save film). He then put the camera down and manually fully rewound the spring that moved the film. He then had to quickly pick it back up when the limo appeared. So he simply didn't continue to film the event. He missed the turn by the limo.
There is no evidence he was part of any conspiracy. In order for some (not all) conspiracists to make their fantasies true they have to simply make things up in order for their ideas to work. This is another example of it.
Here is the granddaughter's brief account:
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID12345068641/Key1pdq7ciu04il/zapruder.JPG)
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For me, no Dealey Plaza witness is going to move the needle on the questions posed on my Cowlick-EOP-Frontal thread. That falls into the category of genuinely weird sh*t.
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Marilyn Sitzman Video Interviews
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On the Darnell Film, we see Sitzman being interviewed in front of the Pergola Shelter behind the Zapruder Perch. Is there a transcript of this interview? That I know of, this would be Sitzman's earliest detailing of what she saw/heard. The Interview that Josiah Thompson did with her is hit-n-miss. Thompson originally had an appointment to interview Zapruder that afternoon, but Zapruder ducked him. Thompson then decided to interview Sitzman. To me, the Sitzman interview shows that Thompson was doing it on-the-fly. Not a well prepared Q/A.
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We have the film. Or films plural. That's a good witness for me. Definitive? No. But the autopsy is definitive. The physical evidence corroborates the "side/back of the head" witnesses.
It's 60+ years later. This is all we have. There won't be a Perry Mason moment, a surprise witness who reveals what happened. So we look at what we have, weight it, and come to a conclusion.
One thing we shouldn't do is make things up to fit our beliefs. That's the conspiracy method. Include me out, thanks.
"But the Autopsy is DEFINITIVE"? Not by a long shot. The SS stole the JFK Body. This is why the Parkland Dr's observations of the JFK Body only minutes after the Kill Shot carry the day.
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"But the Autopsy is DEFINITIVE"? Not by a long shot. The SS stole the JFK Body. This is why the Parkland Dr's observations of the JFK Body only minutes after the Kill Shot carry the day.
You mean the Parkland doctors who were so busy that they didn't turn JFK's body over or prop his upper torso upright so they could take a good look at the back of his head?
Those Parkland doctors?
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You mean the Parkland doctors who were so busy that they didn't turn JFK's body over or prop his upper torso upright so they could take a good look at the back of his head?
Those Parkland doctors?
I am talking about No Parkland Dr seeing that Horrific (R) Temple Blow-Out Wound. And as technology advances and we get a better look at the Z Film, it is becoming apparent that what we are seeing mirrors "The 7th Voyage Of Sinbad" and the Cyclops CGI . Based on the Z Film, not only would the Parkland Dr's have seen that Massive (R) Temple Blow-Out, the entire (R) Rear Seat and (R) Side of the Limo would have been shower'd with massive amounts of blood/brain matter. The photos of the JFK Limo (R) backseat area show nothing even close to this.
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I am talking about No Parkland Dr seeing that Horrific (R) Temple Blow-Out Wound. And as technology advances and we get a better look at the Z Film, it is becoming apparent that what we are seeing mirrors "The 7th Voyage Of Sinbad" and the Cyclops CGI . Based on the Z Film, not only would the Parkland Dr's have seen that Massive (R) Temple Blow-Out, the entire (R) Rear Seat and (R) Side of the Limo would have been shower'd with massive amounts of blood/brain matter. The photos of the JFK Limo (R) backseat area show nothing even close to this.
Hi Royell,
Most people confuse the enormous skull flap (attached to scalp) hanging to the front of and somewhat above ear level-with a "wound". Mrs. Kennedy described this detatched piece of skull as having the appearance of a "wedge"-or-it was the large fragment that flew right past her face that landed behind Mrs. Connally's seat, which we can see tumbling toward the floor in the Z film. Either way...There was no massive temple wound depicted in the Z film, just the very large skull fragment covering the temple area. (See attachment)
(https://i.imgur.com/vQI1bfD.png)
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Steve- I believe you are describing the same thing I am. That "Flap" autopsy photo you posted does cover the (R) Temple. The Zapruder Film shows a lot of blood/brain matter coming out of this Flap/Hole/Wound. As JFK is falling/tilting to his (L), the bright color of blood/brain matter is still coming out of the (R) SIDE of his head. It's now easy to see with today's technology. My opinion is it's Bogus. NONE of the Parkland Dr's ever reported seeing this Horrific Wound.
As an aside, what do you believe was the intended purpose of the autopsy photo you posted? Are we supposed to be seeing a neat little bullet hole in the top of the head/cowlick area? We can Not even judge the size of that Flap Wound due to the angle of the photo. What do you believe Dr Humes was trying to show us with this photo?
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Steve- I believe you are describing the same thing I am. That "Flap" autopsy photo you posted does cover the (R) Temple. The Zapruder Film shows a lot of blood/brain matter coming out of this Flap/Hole/Wound. As JFK is falling/tilting to his (L), the bright color of blood/brain matter is still coming out of the (R) SIDE of his head. It's now easy to see with today's technology. My opinion is it's Bogus. NONE of the Parkland Dr's ever reported seeing this Horrific Wound.
As an aside, what do you believe was the intended purpose of the autopsy photo you posted? Are we supposed to be seeing a neat little bullet hole in the top of the head/cowlick area? We can Not even judge the size of that Flap Wound due to the angle of the photo. What do you believe Dr Humes was trying to show us with this photo?
Hi Royell,
I believe that the reason the Parkland doctors didn't see what we see in the Zapruder film as far as the skull flap, is because Mrs. Kennedy put that hanging flap back into place, and this is why we also don't see the flap in the top of the head, right superior profile, or "Stare of Death" photos. These pictures were all taken prior to the autopsy. Obviously, the skull flap in the autopsy photo I posted was taken during the autopsy, and either the skull flap was pulled open, or, it came loose and fell back down. I am having a problem posting gifs, or I would post two very clear stabilized Zapruder film sequences of the fatal shot made by Gerda Dunckle, that show the flap very vividly.
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There are too many overlapping threads here. So here is another overlap (from another thread):
The embalmer Thomas Evan Robinson:
"large gaping hole in back of head."
"smaller wound in right emple"
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1vpZpqQ/embalmer-notes.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
LNers: "Nah, he was mistaken, just like the many doctors at Parkland!"
Nurse Bowron:
"I saw that there was a massive amount of blood on the back seat and in order to find the cause I lifted his head and my fingers went into a large wound in the back of his head; I turned his head and seeing the size of the wound realized that I could not stop the bleeding. I turned his head back and saw an entry wound in the front of the throat,..."
Nah!
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"large gaping hole in BACK OF HEAD" says it all. Nothing about the Top of head . ".....BACK OF HEAD". And that Basketball size Blood/Brain Matter Stain on the TOP of the JFK Limo Back Seat backs up the mortician's observation. And, Robinson makes mention of the FLAP WOUND in JFK' s (R) Temple Area being "Smaller" than the "...Gaping hole in BACK OF HEAD". This makes obvious how Large that Hole in the back of JFK's Head was.
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There are too many overlapping threads here. So here is another overlap (from another thread):
The embalmer Thomas Evan Robinson:
"large gaping hole in back of head."
"smaller wound in right emple"
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1vpZpqQ/embalmer-notes.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
LNers: "Nah, he was mistaken, just like the many doctors at Parkland!"
Nurse Bowron:
"I saw that there was a massive amount of blood on the back seat and in order to find the cause I lifted his head and my fingers went into a large wound in the back of his head; I turned his head and seeing the size of the wound realized that I could not stop the bleeding. I turned his head back and saw an entry wound in the front of the throat,..."
Nah!
Then the Nix, Muchmore and Zapruder films all are lying when they show the TOP of JFK's head flying through the air, up and forward to the southwest of the car, and not one of them-nor the Mary Ann Moorman-Krahmer Polaroid photo-show a "Large gaping wound in the back of the head", but the Zapruder and Nix films, plus the Moorman Krahmer Polaroid all show the top of JFK's head blown off. Also in the Zapruder film- one large fragment of skull flies off the head right in front of Mrs. Kennedy's face, lands on-bounces off the top of Nellie Connally's seat-and all is captured in the Zapruder film, falling straight down to the floor, where it was documented by Samuel Kinney as being picked up and turned in to Washingtog D.C. the night of the assassination. This, along with three other skull fragments one found in the street by Seymour Weitzman,two in the grass, one by David Burros, and the other the infamous "Harper fragment. All documented, and turned in. All found several yards ahead of the car at the time of the fatal shot to the head. On top of this, Mrs. Kennedy-within 7 days of the assassination-was interviewed by LIFE Magazine writer (because she trusted him- HER words) and hraphically described the head wound as being on top of the head. "I was trying to hold the top of his head down. Maybe I could keep his brains in". She said this to White, twice. She also said she was admiring his brain, saying how beautiful it was. He was face up in her lap. Any wound on the back of his head would'nt have been exposed to her. Nurse Bowron is nothing but appealing to conspiracy buffs and authors, because no such "Large , gaping hole" was on the back of JFK's head. Photographs taken in DP, eyewitnesses who saw it from only feet away all placed their hands to the FRONT of the head, not the rear, with the exception of Bev Oliver-and she jumped onto the conspiracy bandwagon to become famous, just like a lot of other people have. Chuck Brehm stated that he "Saw the top of his head fly off" on video, to a reporter in DP during the 30th anniversary. Now, from all the evidence I just pointed out, it was the top of JFK's head that was blown off-not the rear of the head.
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Steve - Maybe you are looking at more detailed assassination films than I am. I do Not see much of what you describe. I also find it difficult to picture Jackie holding the top of JFK's head on and also tucking that Temple Flap Wound back in while the JFK Limo is hell bent for Parkland. Robinson the Embalmer offers very compelling Hands On Information/Facts. "Large gaping hole in the BACK of the Head". He would know. He patched that HOLE. I also like his noting the BACK Wound. "5-6 inches BELOW the shoulder". "to the right of the back bone". In a court of law, this witness would be dynamite.
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Steve - Maybe you are looking at more detailed assassination films than I am. I do Not see much of what you describe. I also find it difficult to picture Jackie holding the top of JFK's head on and also tucking that Temple Flap Wound back in while the JFK Limo is hell bent for Parkland. Robinson the Embalmer offers very compelling Hands On Information/Facts. "Large gaping hole in the BACK of the Head". He would know. He patched that HOLE. I also like his noting the BACK Wound. "5-6 inches BELOW the shoulder". "to the right of the back bone". In a court of law, this witness would be dynamite.
The HSCA confirmed that these are the unaltered originals and through the wonders of modern science(unheard of till decades after 1963) I combined 2 JFK back of head photos into a smoothly rotating GIF, which if any alteration were done it would stand out like a CT at a Mensa meeting.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FR7XqJmv/JFKBOHlatest-700-1.gif)
Likewise, JFK's back was photographed on the night of the 22nd.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsRzqdfP/JFK-autopsy-back.jpg)
JohnM
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Where is the back wound in the bottom picture?
Thx.
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Where is the back wound in the bottom picture?
Thx.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0Ct4rS7/But-Herbertits14cmbelowthemastoidprocess-zps0f106c78.jpg)
JohnM
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You wanna rely on the assurance of the HSCA regarding these being unaltered Autopsy Photo's? Isn't this the same HSCA that determined the assassination of JFK was probably a Conspiracy and that 4 Shots were fired? And this same HSCA SEALED the testimony of White House Photog Robert Knudsen and his seeing Autopsy Photo(s) of Probe(s) in the body of JFK. You can Not have it both ways.
Yeah, that Autopsy Photo of the BACK Wound does show it lines right up with JFK's Adam's Apple. NOT!
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You wanna rely on the assurance of the HSCA regarding these being unaltered Autopsy Photo's? Isn't this the same HSCA that determined the assassination of JFK was probably a Conspiracy and that 4 Shots were fired? And this same HSCA SEALED the testimony of White House Photog Robert Knudsen and his seeing Autopsy Photo(s) of Probe(s) in the body of JFK. You can Not have it both ways.
Yeah, that Autopsy Photo of the BACK Wound does show it lines right up with JFK's Adam's Apple. NOT!
All the HSCA photographic evidence I use is in the public domain and so far not one CT or any one else or even you, has refuted a shred of it.
I positively reinforce all my photographic evidence with practical examples and invite criticism, because that's how fair and open minded researchers do their work! That's a lesson for you to learn!
Yeah, that Autopsy Photo of the BACK Wound does show it lines right up with JFK's Adam's Apple. NOT!
Wrong Again!!! Look closely at Kennedy's neck folds and admit to yourself that your image analysis is severely lacking!
(https://i.postimg.cc/3rZDJprP/JFK-SBF-side-on-back-autopsy.jpg)
JohnM
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So based on your Red Line, JFK's tie knot is sitting on his upper chest? There's a reason it is also known as a "NECK Tie". Your visual aid defeats your intended point.
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So based on your Red Line, JFK's tie knot is sitting on his upper chest? There's a reason it is also known as a "NECK Tie". Your visual aid defeats your intended point.
Sorry Royell, as they say in the classics, don't bring a knife to a gunfight!
(https://i.postimg.cc/RZ0MQJBJ/jfk-tie-height-c.gif)
JohnM
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Really? Do you believe THAT is where the trach was inserted? If so, take another look at the "Death Stare" Autopsy Photo. This is what happens when trying to connect the BACK Wound to the Throat. It doesn't match up with the Autopsy Photos. This is exactly why Gerry Ford MOVED the JFK BACK Wound UP to the neck.
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Really? Do you believe THAT is where the trach was inserted? If so, take another look at the "Death Stare" Autopsy Photo. This is what happens when trying to connect the BACK Wound to the Throat. It doesn't match up with the Autopsy Photos. This is exactly why Gerry Ford MOVED the JFK BACK Wound UP to the neck.
Yes really, here's an autopsy photo without any lines drawn on top so even you can perfectly see the tracheotomy wound laying directly behind the tie knot and when this wound is connected to the back wound(which can be calculated by the distance of the bullet entrance below Kennedy's neck folds in the back autopsy photo), we can conclusively prove the start of the SBF!
BTW, moving the goalposts when you are clearly proven wrong is really poor form, the death stare autopsy photos shows the exact same tracheotomy wound in exactly the same place! DUH!
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5x9Wt4h/jfk-profile-and-autopsy-proving-SBF.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0Ct4rS7/But-Herbertits14cmbelowthemastoidprocess-zps0f106c78.jpg)
JohnM
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(https://i.postimg.cc/J0Ct4rS7/But-Herbertits14cmbelowthemastoidprocess-zps0f106c78.jpg)
JohnM
John,
I don't remember seeing an autopsy photo showing the ruler in the upper position (measuring the distance between JFK's mastoid process and the entry wound).
Please freshen my memory on that.
Thanks.
-- Tom
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John,
I don't remember seeing an autopsy photo showing the ruler in the upper position (measuring the distance between JFK's mastoid process and the entry wound).
Please freshen my memory on that.
Thanks.
-- Tom
Vladimir Putin himself authorized the archives to give me this rarely seen autopsy photo but shhhh, don't tell anyone, it's our secret, k!
JohnM
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Vladimir Putin himself authorized the archives to give me this rarely seen autopsy photo but shhhh, don't tell anyone, it's our secret, k!
JohnM
In other words, you or another "Lone Nutter" created it?
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I think whoever made this graphic may have made some slight errors.
First of all the 14 mark is about half way and should be 15.
Secondly the mastoid process should be a bit higher than the top of the ruler in this graphic, and furthermore as the HSCA pointed out, the mastoid process is movable when compared to surrounding landmarks but I believe the 14cm measurement would logically be taken when JFK was in this position?
Thirdly the ruler is angled slightly downwards and away from Kennedy's head.
Fourthly the autopsy photo doesn't show crystal clear ruler numbers but based on the blurry 1 cm black square at the bottom, I measured about 27 or 28, so the ruler could be 25 cm or perhaps 30?
So taking all this into account the bullet hole being 14cm down from the mastoid process is a close enough fit! But at the end of the day numbers on a page are relatively important for imagining scale but as compared to an actual photograph where we know the dimensions of the person these numbers aren't as important, because as they say a picture is worth a thousand words!
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0Ct4rS7/But-Herbertits14cmbelowthemastoidprocess-zps0f106c78.jpg)
JohnM
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In other words, you or another "Lone Nutter" created it?
Why does it have to be a "LNer"?
JohnM
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Sorry Royell, as they say in the classics, don't bring a knife to a gunfight!
(https://i.postimg.cc/RZ0MQJBJ/jfk-tie-height-c.gif)
JohnM
There's no way the trachea/windpipe is located where that Line ends in JFK's CHEST. This frequently happens when trying to connect the Back Wound with the neat little wound in the throat/tie knot. I've even seen a TV Replication attempt that ended with the bullet bouncing off of the dashboard of the car. It just doesn't work. Never has.
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John,
I don't remember seeing an autopsy photo showing the ruler in the upper position (measuring the distance between JFK's mastoid process and the entry wound).
Please freshen my memory on that.
Thanks.
-- Tom
Extremely Nice "catch" Tom. Sharp eyes and a very Keen memory on your part. This is indicative of after 61+ years, we never know for certain if the image(s) we are looking at have been monkey'd with.
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Extremely Nice "catch" Tom. Sharp eyes and a very Keen memory on your part. This is indicative of after 61+ years, we never know for certain if the image(s) we are looking at have been monkey'd with.
Regardless, the movement of the ruler a few inches in the same plane from one part of the photo to another part of the photo helps us to verify whether or not Boswell's and Humes' measurement of the distance between the entry wound and the lower tip of JFK's mastoid process was correct.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/c4m1WgQb/Screenshot-2025-04-22-205447.png) (https://postimages.org/)
What's with that hole in the occipital region (the back of the skull) - that "ragged, slanting" hole measuring 15 x 6 cm?
It doesn't fit with the notion of a neat rear bullet and the top of his head blasting off.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/c4m1WgQb/Screenshot-2025-04-22-205447.png) (https://postimages.org/)
What's with that hole in the occipital region (the back of the skull) - that "ragged, slanting" hole measuring 15 x 6 cm?
It doesn't fit with the notion of a neat rear bullet and the top of his head blasting off.
And..........What about the alleged neat little bullet hole in JFK's cowlick area/top of the head? 3 total Bullets, 1 of which is "Lost"? JFK and Gov Connally were riddled with a "flurry", (SA Kellerman WC Testimony description), inside the JFK Limo.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/c4m1WgQb/Screenshot-2025-04-22-205447.png) (https://postimages.org/)
What's with that hole in the occipital region (the back of the skull) - that "ragged, slanting" hole measuring 15 x 6 cm?
It doesn't fit with the notion of a neat rear bullet and the top of his head blasting off.
Correct.
If you can find autopsy photo F8 (as in Fox photo #8) and orient it correctly (i.e., with the skull's deep, "V"-shaped notch to the left of the big semi-circular deformity (where at least one of the largish bullet fragments exited), you'll be looking at JFK's head from front-to-back (you can't see his eyes because his scalp is pulled down over them). The elongated, almost-vertical white "spot" in the dark background is the entrance wound viewed from the inside -- the one that the autopsy doctors said was about one inch to the right of and a little above the External Occipital Protuberance (I'm going from memory here on the exact measurements).
In his Chapter 14, Pat Speer got the photo right side up, thank God, but he interpreted it exactly backwards, i.e., he thinks the deep "V" notch and the semi-circular defect are in the back of JFK's head!
LOL!
If you'll watch the PBS NOVA special, "Cold Case JFK," you'll hear Dr. Peter Cummings (a gunshot-to-the-head expert) talking about these wounds and you'll see the "V" notch and the semi-circular deformity in his digital reconstruction of JFK's skull the way I've described them, i.e., in the front of the skull.
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All of which has nothing to do with that 15 cm wide hole in the back of the head.
15mm long and 6mm wide, dude.
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15mm long and 6mm wide, dude.
Yes, just realised! ;)
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The HSCA confirmed that these are the unaltered originals and through the wonders of modern science(unheard of till decades after 1963) I combined 2 JFK back of head photos into a smoothly rotating GIF, which if any alteration were done it would stand out like a CT at a Mensa meeting.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FR7XqJmv/JFKBOHlatest-700-1.gif)
Likewise, JFK's back was photographed on the night of the 22nd.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsRzqdfP/JFK-autopsy-back.jpg)
JohnM
Dr. Saylor gave the most accurate description. It was tangential wound that ran from the temple the whole way back. If you look at the Zapruder/Moorman films you can clearly see this.
(https://artsillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Looking_Screenshot4.jpg)
(https://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/Kquinn856/Hole%20in%20back%20of%20head.2_zpsyg5qipns.jpg)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/c4m1WgQb/Screenshot-2025-04-22-205447.png) (https://postimages.org/)
What's with that hole in the occipital region (the back of the skull) - that "ragged, slanting" hole measuring 15 x 6 cm?
It doesn't fit with the notion of a neat rear bullet and the top of his head blasting off.
15 x 6 cm? In the back of the skull? Really? 5.9 inches x 2.5 inches. That certainly wouldn't fit with the notion of a neat rear bullet.
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Yes, just realised! ;)
15mm x 6mm was the description of the wound in the scalp. Humes did say that there was a corresponding hole in the skull underneath but he said that 6mm would not be the measure of the smallest diameter. He said that 7mm would be the upper limit of it. 15mm x 7mm in the skull bone would not be out of the ordinary for a bullet entry wound in the skull caused by a 6.5mm bullet strike. It would be described as a keyholed entry wound.
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Regardless, the movement of the ruler a few inches in the same plane from one part of the photo to another part of the photo helps us to verify whether or not Boswell's and Humes' measurement of the distance between the entry wound and the lower tip of JFK's mastoid process was correct.
I don't think Royell understood your original tongue in cheek comment but I thought the obvious cut-out of disembodied hands was a bit of a giveaway!
JohnM
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This is indicative of after 61+ years, we never know for certain if the image(s) we are looking at have been monkey'd with.
Yet ironically you rely on these very same images/film to make all sorts of conspiratorial assertions but I guess when you get to pick and choose what to believe then the World is your oyster.
JohnM