JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Bill Brown on April 24, 2025, 04:56:27 AM
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Oswald's wallet, along with both Westbrook and Barrett, were inside Westbrook's office once Oswald was brought in. Let me say that again... All three (Oswald's wallet, Westbrook & Barrett) were inside Westbrook's office after Oswald was brought in. I believe Barrett is being honest when he says Westbrook asked him about Oswald/Hidell identifications inside a wallet. I just think Barrett is misremembering where it was that the brief conversation took place, i.e. inside Westbrook's office versus at Tenth & Patton. All of this is covered in "With Malice" by Dale Myers.
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Oswald's wallet, along with both Westbrook and Barrett, were inside Westbrook's office once Oswald was brought in. Let me say that again... All three (Oswald's wallet, Westbrook & Barrett) were inside Westbrook's office after Oswald was brought in. I believe Barrett is being honest when he says Westbrook asked him about Oswald/Hidell identifications inside a wallet. I just think Barrett is misremembering where it was that the brief conversation took place, i.e. inside Westbrook's office versus at Tenth & Patton. All of this is covered in "With Malice" by Dale Myers.
The whole Oswald Wallet at the Tippit crime scene is completely illogical, on one hand from the CT perspective, the Dallas Police wanted to shaft Oswald by manufacturing evidence, planting evidence, lying about the evidence and eventually letting Oswald be killed, but for some reason the Dallas Police suppressed some of the strongest evidence in the Tippit murder by hiding it? WHY?
Anyway, Weidmann just recently said this about debating Bill Brown about the Tippit murder, "there is no point to have a debate when you make up "facts" as you go along as well as ignore evidence that proves you wrong" so I wonder if Weidmann will contradict himself and enter this debate and give us his two cents about why Bill is wrong, and if he does then there is no reason for Weidmann to keep running from a real debate with Bill! Let's just wait and see?
JohnM
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TWO WALLETS? - YUP. Thumb1:
https://jfk.boards.net/post/4556/thread
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TWO WALLETS? - YUP. Thumb1:
https://jfk.boards.net/post/4556/thread
Thanks Michael, so Oswald's wallet was at the scene of Tippit's murder, nice, that's more proof that Oswald was there! Thumb1: Thumb1:
JohnM
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TWO WALLETS? - YUP. Thumb1:
https://jfk.boards.net/post/4556/thread
Don't believe your lying eyes they say...
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FWIW, Greg Doudna, who is at least a serious scholar and not a complete JFKA loon, has a scenario where the wallet at the Tippit scene was Callaway's: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26874-the-wallet-at-the-tippit-scene-a-simpler-solution/.
In the second post on that thread, Bill Simpich absolutely reams Barrett as "the worst sort of l-i-a-r."
I didn't review the entire long thread - Bill Brown is there as well - but my guess would be that every theory about the wallet is in there somewhere.
And on it goes, and always will.
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Addendum: At the same thread, Donald Willis argues the wallet at the scene belonged to Scroggins:
"DPD Sgt. Kenneth Croy: 'There was a report that a cab driver had picked up Tippit's gun and had left, presumably. They don't know whether he was the one that had shot Tippit...' (v12p202). Certainly, if Scoggins was, at first, wrongly suspected of being the shooter, the police would have wanted to see his wallet."
And on it goes, and always will.
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Now I'm really into the wallet thing:
Here is Myers' fairly venomous piece on the Rookstool/Barrett video, in which he also links to his other pieces on the wallet: https://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html.
All I know is, if I ever create a sock puppet, he's going to be named Ferris Rookstool III!
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FWIW, Greg Doudna, who is at least a serious scholar and not a complete JFKA loon, has a scenario where the wallet at the Tippit scene was Callaway's: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26874-the-wallet-at-the-tippit-scene-a-simpler-solution/.
In the second post on that thread, Bill Simpich absolutely reams Barrett as "the worst sort of l-i-a-r."
I didn't review the entire long thread - Bill Brown is there as well - but my guess would be that every theory about the wallet is in there somewhere.
And on it goes, and always will.
In this video of the wallet at the Tippit crime scene, it appears the cop with the wallet is randomly waving his gun and without a care even has it aimed close to the hand of the detective who is pointing something out within the wallet and then when the cop hands over the wallet, he quickly points the gun away and more towards himself.
The most likely scenario imo is that the wallet was being looked at legitimately and also as a bit of a show for the TV camera and thus the cop is a bit flippant with the direction of his gun but when the civilian is given his wallet back, the cop responds correctly by diverting the aim of the gun and away from the direction of this civilian.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PxPsgRHQ/Giving-wallet-back.gif)
BTW, I posted this theory on the old Forum and Gary Mack who became a wise wizard, sent me a PM endorsing my theory.
JohnM
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In this video of the wallet at the Tippit crime scene, it appears the cop with the wallet is randomly waving his gun and without a care even has it aimed close to the hand of the detective who is pointing something out within the wallet and then when the cop hands over the wallet, he quickly points the gun away and more towards himself.
The most likely scenario imo is that the wallet was being looked at legitimately and also as a bit of a show for the TV camera and thus the cop is a bit flippant with the direction of his gun but when the civilian is given his wallet back, the cop responds correctly by diverting the aim of the gun and away from the direction of this civilian.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PxPsgRHQ/Giving-wallet-back.gif)
BTW, I posted this theory on the old Forum and Gary Mack who became a wise wizard, sent me a PM endorsing my theory.
JohnM
:D
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Below is a screen shot from a news report aired on WFAA-TV Dallas on the 50th anniversary.
It contains the only documented affirmation that a wallet was found at the Tippit scene.
The wallet is described as "Oswald's", was "recovered" by the officer first to arrive on the scene.
This documented framed evidence was given by the officers to FBI Agent Bob Barrett when he retired.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4290/35523265361_492cc8b5eb_c.jpg)
"First on the scene recovered Oswald's wallet there too."
" K H Croy Sgt. Kenneth Croy DPD Reservve #86"(?)
"SA XXXXXXX Bookhout Dallas FBI"
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Last one:
Since I will be writing a law review article on the wallet, I would like any debate on this to start at the 30,000-foot level:
1. With multiple eyewitnesses, the police would have planted an Oswald wallet at the Tippit scene because ____________________.
2. The police would have had an Oswald wallet prepared in advance, for use at the Tippit scene within minutes of the murder, because _________________________.
3. The police would have planted Alek Hidell identification in the prepared wallet because ____________________________.
4. Despite items 1-3, the police failed to assemble a clean series of reports about the wallet being found at the scene because ________________________.
5. If the police did not actually plant an Oswald wallet at the Tippit scene but merely said they found one there, they did this because _______________________ and the answer to item 4 is that _________________________.
Probably there are excellent CT-oriented answers to such questions, which Martin will supply and expose me, Ferris Rookstool IV, as a hopeless dolt who probably drops his wallet in the parking lot every time he goes to Walmart.
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Last one:
Since I will be writing a law review article on the wallet, I would like any debate on this to start at the 30,000-foot level:
1. With multiple eyewitnesses, the police would have planted an Oswald wallet at the Tippit scene because ____________________.
2. The police would have had an Oswald wallet prepared in advance, for use at the Tippit scene within minutes of the murder, because _________________________.
3. The police would have planted Alek Hidell identification in the prepared wallet because ____________________________.
4. Despite items 1-3, the police failed to assemble a clean series of reports about the wallet being found at the scene because ________________________.
5. If the police did not actually plant an Oswald wallet at the Tippit scene but merely said they found one there, they did this because _______________________ and the answer to item 4 is that _________________________.
Probably there are excellent CT-oriented answers to such questions, which Martin will supply and expose me, Ferris Rookstool IV, as a hopeless dolt who probably drops his wallet in the parking lot every time he goes to Walmart.
Useless garbage
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Useless garbage
It is, isn't it? Are we to interpret your response as "Thinking logically is beneath me" or "I have no answers"?
Please, feel free to ignore my garbage. Just take us through (1) how your scenario, whatever it is, actually would have worked and (2) how it would have made any sense in the context of the Tippit murder and the JFKA as a whole. These should be basic concerns before we start agonizing over the buttons and flaps on the wallets, no? If you can't take us through (1) and (2), I'm going to start having concerns about this whole CT thing maybe just being, well, kind of ad hoc goofiness.
Oh, Ferris Rookstool III was a hoot. He was one of three claimants to having possession of the sniper's window and indeed some 40 or 50 TSBD windows!
"Now a third Kennedy-era collector has come forward to claim possession.
Ferris Rookstool, a former FBI employee who lives in Dallas, says he hired a crew to salvage all the windows a few years ago, after he learned that Dallas County was planning to replace the panes.
He said he has the 40 to 50 windows stored in a warehouse but doesn’t know which one is the window."
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Below is a screen shot from a news report aired on WFAA-TV Dallas on the 50th anniversary.
It contains the only documented affirmation that a wallet was found at the Tippit scene.
The wallet is described as "Oswald's", was "recovered" by the officer first to arrive on the scene.
This documented framed evidence was given by the officers to FBI Agent Bob Barrett when he retired.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4290/35523265361_492cc8b5eb_c.jpg)
"First on the scene recovered Oswald's wallet there too."
" K H Croy Sgt. Kenneth Croy DPD Reservve #86"(?)
"SA XXXXXXX Bookhout Dallas FBI"
Thanks again Michael, Oswald's wallet the Tippit murder scene can only mean Oswald dropped it as he was proving his identity to Tippit, therefore Oswald was there and this is just another piece of the mountain of evidence linking Oswald to this crime!! Thumb1: Thumb1: Thumb1:
JohnM
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Thanks again Michael, Oswald's wallet the Tippit murder scene can only mean Oswald dropped it as he was proving his identity to Tippit, therefore Oswald was there and this is just another piece of the mountain of evidence linking Oswald to this crime!! Thumb1: Thumb1: Thumb1:
JohnM
I believe what he did is called "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel."
On the other hand, he does get any Oswald conviction overturned. Which is really what they are trying to do anyway. It's Oswald as Alfred Dreyfus sort of thinking.
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Useless garbage
A typical CT knee jerk response which proves that you either didn't read the questions or can't think of an intelligent response that provides a logical alternate narrative, so you just put these questions in the too hard basket, which in your case is beyond overflowing.
Are you really satisfied by answering with brainless one liners and irrelevant emojis?
What are you trying to prove?
JohnM
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Oswald's wallet, along with both Westbrook and Barrett, were inside Westbrook's office once Oswald was brought in. Let me say that again... All three (Oswald's wallet, Westbrook & Barrett) were inside Westbrook's office after Oswald was brought in. I believe Barrett is being honest when he says Westbrook asked him about Oswald/Hidell identifications inside a wallet. I just think Barrett is misremembering where it was that the brief conversation took place, i.e. inside Westbrook's office versus at Tenth & Patton. All of this is covered in "With Malice" by Dale Myers.
Bentley took a wallet from Oswald in the car which took them from the Texas Theater to the police station. None of the officers in the car have mentioned, in their contemporary reports, that a Hidell ID was found in that wallet.
Gus Rose, who had just arrived at the police station after Oswald had been brought in, was the first officer to talk to him. Just before that some unidentified officer gave Rose a wallet and told him it was Oswald's.
Mr. ROSE. He had already been searched and someone had his billfold. I don't know whether it was the patrolman who brought him in that had it or not.
That wallet did contain the Hidell ID.
At 3.25 PM traffic officer Bardin submitted a black wallet with some other items to the evidence room.
How did Westbrook and Barrett obtain "Oswald's wallet" at the police station and how did it end up in the possession of officer Bardin?
And what was Westbrook looking at on 10th street? There was speculation about it being Tippit's wallet but that has long been debunked.
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If the someone had planted a wallet at the scene to frame Oswald, why didn't they reveal that such a wallet was found? That would have been a fantastic piece of evidence linking Oswald to the crime. What would the police have done if they found a discarded wallet at the scene? They would have immediately radioed in the name of the person who owned the wallet as a potential suspect. Instead we are supposed to believe the DPD suppressed finding Oswald's wallet at the scene? The guy everyone is trying to blame for the crime. Makes no sense. It may be Tippit's citation book. A logical thing to do is look at Tippit's citation book to see if he wrote down any information that might have been useful in finding the suspect like a name or license plate of the last person he encountered.
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If the someone had planted a wallet at the scene to frame Oswald, why didn't they reveal that such a wallet was found? That would have been a fantastic piece of evidence linking Oswald to the crime.
Because, if we're to believe the official story, Oswald carried his wallet on him when he was arrested.
So either Oswald was carrying two wallets that day, or a very incriminating wallet with the Hidell ID was planted at the Tippit murder scene (if the accounts of Oswald's wallet being found near the Tippit scene are accurate).
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So after shooting JFK and then shooting Tippit , Oswald continues carrying his fake ID in his billfold all the way to the theater?
The stupidity of Oswald is incredible.
1. Orders a an MC rifle by mail with fake ID but has the rifle sent to his own real name P.O.box
2. Has his wife take pictures of him holding an MC rifle and a revolver in his holster, and some Marxist magazines.
3. Cannot figure out any other way to get his rifle into the TSBD except by getting a ride with BW. Frazier on morning of Nov/22/63.
4. Disassembles a 40” rifle just to reduce length a mere 5” and puts the parts in a paper bag made from TSBD paper and TSBD tape.
5. Leaves the bag with his palm print on it right there at the SN.
6. Cannot figure out how to use an elevator and escape with his rifle, so he decides to leave the rifle by boxes nearest the staircase and then run down 4 flights of stairs.
7. After a lucky break by not getting arrested by Baker in the 2nd floor lunchroom, Oswald instead of just going down 1 more staircase, and then exiting by unguarded west side door, decides to take off his brown shirt , get a coke, and go wander slowly into the 2nd floor office.
8. As Oswald , ( wearing just the Tshirt) enters the rear door to the office, Mrs Reid entered the office front door and saw Oswald. Oswald for some reason just kept walking slowly towards Reid across 90 ft of office floor. Isn’t Oswald supposed to be in a hurry to get out of the TSBD?
9. After mumbling to Reid , Oswald goes back to the lunchroom, puts back on his brown shirt. He’s got to get his blue jacket too, before he leaves so he that will be wearing it when Oswald is seen by taxi driver Whaley. This is an incredible waste of time by a guy supposed to be in a hurry to get out of TSBD.
10. Oswald now having put back on his brown shirt and has his blue jacket too, exits the lunchroom again , but decides rather than go out the west rear door, and get out of TSBD, that the better action to do, is to trek across the 1st floor to linger in the front lobby. There he meets reporters , Allman and McNeil. More wasted time.
11. Oswald realizes finally he has wasted enough time and upon seeing that DPD Officer Barnett had locked the front door , Oswald reckons it’s time to leave the TSBD now by exiting via the unguarded west rear door , something Oswald could have done 2 minutes earlier after meeting Baker.
12.,Oswald is supposed to be in hurry to get back to his boarding room. He elects to walk 7 blocks to board a bus that obviously was oriented to go BACK to the TSBD. Is Oswald stupid or what?
13. Oswald makes a spectacle of himself banging on the bus door. He sits in the bus for several minutes before it dawns on him that this bus isn’t moving very fast AND, it’s going BACK to the TSBD. So Oswald’s squirrel brain reckons it’s time he got off this bus asap. BUT WAIT… get a bus transfer from the bus driver… geez us … is this guy Oswald stupid or what?
14. NOW FINALLY… Oswald has a eureka moment: Hey.. I can get a taxi and get home asap. For some reason, Oswald did not think of using a taxi 8 minutes earlier when he had just exited the TSBD (supposedly in a hurry to get home asap.)
15. After changing his blue jacket for a light gray jacket, Oswald decides since he just shot JFK that the best thing to do now is to carry a revolver that is linked to his P.O. Box too just like his MC rifle was, and Oswald reasons that he should carry also the fake ID in his billfold too. Somehow Oswald’s blue jacket made its way back to the TSBD about 1 month later after he took it off at his boarding room.
16. Now Oswald decides that he is in the clear, so let’s just start walking /running or changing directions suddenly should he see any police car going by. After all, that’s the best way to not draw attention to yourself right? Apparently Oswald’s squirrel brain reasons that is what he should do, especially since he is carrying a revolver linked to a fake ID which is in his wallet, which ID was used to order the MC rifle also, and which rifle Oswald left on the 6th floor of the TSBD with a serial no that could be easily tracked to the fake name leading to his own real name P.O.box. Is Oswald in on drugs? because the level of stupidity is beyond normal stupid.
17. So the police officer DID notice something that made him follow Oswald walking along in some way that Tippit thought was a little odd. According to 2 witness, Oswald was seen actually walking TOWARDS Tippit. Yes, Oswald’s squirrel brain, now being affected by drugs , hypnosis or psychotic disconnect with reality, reasoned that the best thing to do was to approach Tippits car , have a few words, then shooTippi with 4 shots with the revolver linked to The fake ID in Oswald’s wallet. To make sure that nearby witnesses saw him, Oswald lingered after shooting Tippit in the head , threw his shells out one by one at the scene and walked menacingly towards Markam so she could get a good look at his face.
Okay now it’s beyond stupidity. Oswald has crossed over into an alternate reality. into the realm of psychotic lunacy.
So after this event, Oswald keeping the billfold with fake ID on his person and keeping the revolver on his person going to the theatre , then pulling out the revolver when police arrive, struggling with the police all the way outside of the theater and Oswald proclaiming was not resisting arrest… IS exactly the conclusion one would expect of psychotic lunatic.
I’ve sort of run out of CT alternatives, but there may be one possibility that Oswald was the victim of MK ultra and was hypnotized and or psychologically managed in some way.
The other possibility is a conspirator who was able to order the MC rifle and revolver, setup Oswald, somehow got Oswald to be photographed with rifle and revolver, then the conspirator preplanted the MC rifle, shot JFK with a semi auto rifle which the conspirator took with him as he escaped using the west rear elevator as Babel and Truly were ascending the staircases.
Sooner or later , though, if I’ve exhausted all CT scenarios that I can imagine, then I’ll just probably become an LN and be done with it after 25 years of being lead down rabbit holes.
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So after shooting JFK and then shooting Tippit , Oswald continues carrying his fake ID in his billfold all the way to the theater?
The stupidity of Oswald is incredible.
1. Orders a an MC rifle by mail with fake ID but has the rifle sent to his own real name P.O.box
2. Has his wife take pictures of him holding an MC rifle and a revolver in his holster, and some Marxist magazines.
3. Cannot figure out any other way to get his rifle into the TSBD except by getting a ride with BW. Frazier on morning of Nov/22/63.
4. Disassembles a 40” rifle just to reduce length a mere 5” and puts the parts in a paper bag made from TSBD paper and TSBD tape.
5. Leaves the bag with his palm print on it right there at the SN.
6. Cannot figure out how to use an elevator and escape with his rifle, so he decides to leave the rifle by boxes nearest the staircase and then run down 4 flights of stairs.
7. After a lucky break by not getting arrested by Baker in the 2nd floor lunchroom, Oswald instead of just going down 1 more staircase, and then exiting by unguarded west side door, decides to take off his brown shirt , get a coke, and go wander slowly into the 2nd floor office.
8. As Oswald , ( wearing just the Tshirt) enters the rear door to the office, Mrs Reid entered the office front door and saw Oswald. Oswald for some reason just kept walking slowly towards Reid across 90 ft of office floor. Isn’t Oswald supposed to be in a hurry to get out of the TSBD?
9. After mumbling to Reid , Oswald goes back to the lunchroom, puts back on his brown shirt. He’s got to get his blue jacket too, before he leaves so he that will be wearing it when Oswald is seen by taxi driver Whaley. This is an incredible waste of time by a guy supposed to be in a hurry to get out of TSBD.
10. Oswald now having put back on his brown shirt and has his blue jacket too, exits the lunchroom again , but decides rather than go out the west rear door, and get out of TSBD, that the better action to do, is to trek across the 1st floor to linger in the front lobby. There he meets reporters , Allman and McNeil. More wasted time.
11. Oswald realizes finally he has wasted enough time and upon seeing that DPD Officer Barnett had locked the front door , Oswald reckons it’s time to leave the TSBD now by exiting via the unguarded west rear door , something Oswald could have done 2 minutes earlier after meeting Baker.
12.,Oswald is supposed to be in hurry to get back to his boarding room. He elects to walk 7 blocks to board a bus that obviously was oriented to go BACK to the TSBD. Is Oswald stupid or what?
13. Oswald makes a spectacle of himself banging on the bus door. He sits in the bus for several minutes before it dawns on him that this bus isn’t moving very fast AND, it’s going BACK to the TSBD. So Oswald’s squirrel brain reckons it’s time he got off this bus asap. BUT WAIT… get a bus transfer from the bus driver… geez us … is this guy Oswald stupid or what?
14. NOW FINALLY… Oswald has a eureka moment: Hey.. I can get a taxi and get home asap. For some reason, Oswald did not think of using a taxi 8 minutes earlier when he had just exited the TSBD (supposedly in a hurry to get home asap.)
15. After changing his blue jacket for a light gray jacket, Oswald decides since he just shot JFK that the best thing to do now is to carry a revolver that is linked to his P.O. Box too just like his MC rifle was, and Oswald reasons that he should carry also the fake ID in his billfold too. Somehow Oswald’s blue jacket made its way back to the TSBD about 1 month later after he took it off at his boarding room.
16. Now Oswald decides that he is in the clear, so let’s just start walking /running or changing directions suddenly should he see any police car going by. After all, that’s the best way to not draw attention to yourself right? Apparently Oswald’s squirrel brain reasons that is what he should do, especially since he is carrying a revolver linked to a fake ID which is in his wallet, which ID was used to order the MC rifle also, and which rifle Oswald left on the 6th floor of the TSBD with a serial no that could be easily tracked to the fake name leading to his own real name P.O.box. Is Oswald in on drugs? because the level of stupidity is beyond normal stupid.
17. So the police officer DID notice something that made him follow Oswald walking along in some way that Tippit thought was a little odd. According to 2 witness, Oswald was seen actually walking TOWARDS Tippit. Yes, Oswald’s squirrel brain, now being affected by drugs , hypnosis or psychotic disconnect with reality, reasoned that the best thing to do was to approach Tippits car , have a few words, then shooTippi with 4 shots with the revolver linked to The fake ID in Oswald’s wallet. To make sure that nearby witnesses saw him, Oswald lingered after shooting Tippit in the head , threw his shells out one by one at the scene and walked menacingly towards Markam so she could get a good look at his face.
Okay now it’s beyond stupidity. Oswald has crossed over into an alternate reality. into the realm of psychotic lunacy.
So after this event, Oswald keeping the billfold with fake ID on his person and keeping the revolver on his person going to the theatre , then pulling out the revolver when police arrive, struggling with the police all the way outside of the theater and Oswald proclaiming was not resisting arrest… IS exactly the conclusion one would expect of psychotic lunatic.
I’ve sort of run out of CT alternatives, but there may be one possibility that Oswald was the victim of MK ultra and was hypnotized and or psychologically managed in some way.
The other possibility is a conspirator who was able to order the MC rifle and revolver, setup Oswald, somehow got Oswald to be photographed with rifle and revolver, then the conspirator preplanted the MC rifle, shot JFK with a semi auto rifle which the conspirator took with him as he escaped using the west rear elevator as Babel and Truly were ascending the staircases.
Sooner or later , though, if I’ve exhausted all CT scenarios that I can imagine, then I’ll just probably become an LN and be done with it after 25 years of being lead down rabbit holes.
I don't accept all of your posited scenario, but it seems to me that the basic scenario falls into place if the JFKA was not in Oswald's contemplation until almost immediately before it occurred, was not finalized until he was rebuffed by Marina and was undertaken as pretty much of a suicide mission to establish his place in history as a true Marxist. As I've said before, the combination of his employment at the TSBD and the route of the motorcade must have seemed like Fate calling to him at last. My guess is that he was astonished when he found himself alone on the 6th floor and able to calmly exit the TSBD and that he had no plan at all once he was outside. Perhaps after he encountered Baker and Truly he contemplated remaining in the TSBD and blending in for a bit but then realized he could walk right out. By that point, the realization that he had just blown out the brains of the POTUS and somehow survived would have left his mind reeling. From that point forward, it all strikes me as flying by the seat of his pants. His actions might have looked more rational if he hadn't encountered Tippit; perhaps he would have headed for Mexico and tried again for entry to Cuba. Once Tippit was shot, now his mind was really reeling and he was really flying by the seat of his pants. Once he was in custody in the TT, it really was "all over now" and I believe he went into some state of acceptance where he realized nothing could be gained by cooperating and he might avoid conviction or at least cement his place in history with a trial in which he would expound his philosophy.
Not a perfect explanation, I realize, but there is no perfect explanation and something like this makes the most sense to me.
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Because, if we're to believe the official story, Oswald carried his wallet on him when he was arrested.
So either Oswald was carrying two wallets that day, or a very incriminating wallet with the Hidell ID was planted at the Tippit murder scene (if the accounts of Oswald's wallet being found near the Tippit scene are accurate).
That makes no sense. If the DPD is going to suppress finding a wallet, which one is it going to be? The one found in his pocket when arrested or the one left at the scene of the murder of a cop? Obviously, they would claim to have found the more highly incriminating wallet at the crime scene and put anything necessary in that wallet. If they had planted a wallet there, anyone with half a brain would have anticipated that Oswald would have had a second wallet on his possession when arrested. They wouldn't have been surprised by that. Again, what would the police had done if they found a discarded wallet at the Tippit murder scene? They would have immediately radioed in the identity of the owner of that wallet as a potential suspect. That didn't happen. It is not a wallet found at the crime scene. My best guess is Tippit's citation book or the wallet of a witness.
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That makes no sense. If the DPD is going to suppress finding a wallet, which one is it going to be? The one found in his pocket when arrested or the one left at the scene of the murder of a cop? Obviously, they would claim to have found the more highly incriminating wallet at the crime scene and put anything necessary in that wallet. If they had planted a wallet there, anyone with half a brain would have anticipated that Oswald would have had a second wallet on his possession when arrested. They wouldn't have been surprised by that. Again, what would the police had done if they found a discarded wallet at the Tippit murder scene? They would have immediately radioed in the identity of the owner of that wallet as a potential suspect. That didn't happen. It is not a wallet found at the crime scene. My best guess is Tippit's citation book or the wallet of a witness.
What also doesn't make sense is that none of the reports from 11/22/63 mentioned the Hidell ID being in the contents of Oswald's wallet. As someone noted earlier on this topic, officer Bentley didn't mention the Hiddell ID when he went on TV that day and described the contents of Oswald's wallet. The whole thing is peculiar.
The film footage and photo from the Tippit crime scene indirectly corroborates the FBI agent's (Barrett?) claim about Oswald's wallet being found before he was arrested (assuming the wallet in the film footage wasn't Tippit's).
What explains the discrepancy? I don't know.
Here's an article from 2013 on the two wallets mystery:
Wallet mystery from Officer Tippit's murder settled after 50 years
DALLAS No other crimes have been more analyzed or scrutinized than what happened in Dallas a half-century ago.
'It's been picked apart for decades,' said Farris Rookstool III, JFK historian and former FBI analyst, 'but the tragedy of this is no one has ever taken the due diligence of time to really put these pieces together until now.'
After five decades, Rookstool is sharing the strongest evidence yet that Lee Harvey Oswald murdered Dallas police Officer J.D. Tippit.
'The wallet puts him definitively at the scene of the crime,' Rookstool said.
Oswald's wallet has been a persistent mystery in recent years one Rookstool started studying. The mysterious billfold first appeared on WFAA in the afternoon of November 22, 1963.
WFAA program director Jay Watson, anchoring live coverage of the assassination, asked Channel 8 photographer Ron Reiland to join him on set and discuss film that Reiland just shot on the Oak Cliff street where Tippit was slain.
'Let's roll the film and we'll narrate it as we go,' Watson said on air.
Reiland, describing each scene to Watson, presumed the wallet seen on the film belonged to Officer Tippit.
'There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is Oswald's wallet,' Rookstool said.
So, Rookstool set out to prove it.
He compared the Channel 8 black-and-white film to Oswald's actual wallet in the National Archives. On each of them, circular snaps are visible, along with metal strips and perhaps the biggest similarity a zipper over the cash compartment.
Oswald's wallet is a different color and has different characteristics than Tippit's.
This month, for the first time, Marie Tippit shared her late husband's wallet with WFAA. Tippit's is black, has a different style snap no metal bar like Oswald's and does not have a zipper over the cash compartment.
A half hour east of Birmingham, Alabama is the only man alive today who saw Oswald's wallet at Tippit's murder scene.
'As I walked up, I happened to not knowingly step in a puddle of blood, which was Tippit's blood,' retired FBI Special Agent Bob Barrett recalled. 'I thought, 'Oh God, what have I done?''
He spent 27 years in the FBI and was asked to go to the Tippit murder scene that day by his friend, Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker.
After arriving at 10th and Patton in North Oak Cliff, Barrett said, he recognized a Dallas police captain thumbing through a billfold.
'He said, 'Bob, you know all the crooks in town, all the hoodlums, etc. You ever heard of a Lee Harvey Oswald?' I said, 'No, I never have.' He said 'How about an Alec Hiddell?' I said, 'No. I never have heard of him either,'' Barrett explained. 'Why would they be asking me questions about Oswald and Hiddell if it wasn't in that wallet?'
In addition, the first Dallas cop on the Tippit crime scene said he actually recovered the wallet.
Sgt. Kenneth Croy, a reserve officer at the time, put it in writing on an 8' x 10' picture for Rookstool.
'First on the scene, recovered Oswald's wallet there, too,' Croy wrote on an image of Tippit's patrol car.
But officially, Dallas police told a different story. The department said it got Oswald's wallet from Oswald himself after his arrest a short time later at the Texas Theatre.
Barrett and Rookstool believe police made that up for the official report because too many officers handled the crucial piece of evidence at the shooting scene.
'They said they took the wallet out of his pocket in the car? That's so much hogwash,' Barrett said. 'That wallet was in [Captain] Westbrook's hand.'
'Bob's in Alabama. Kenneth Croy is in Hamilton, Texas,' Rookstool said. 'They had no relationship with each other than the fate of history put them at the scene of a crime.'
Rookstool says the testimony of Barrett and Croy, Tippit's billfold, and the WFAA film prove that Oswald's wallet was at the scene of the policeman's murder.
More than shell casings and eyewitness recollections, it is the first hard evidence placing Oswald there on that day.
It's significant in tying off a historical loose end and perfecting the record fifty years later.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/wallet-mystery-from-officer-tippits-murder-settled-after-50-years/287-306016477
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What also doesn't make sense is that none of the reports from 11/22/63 mentioned the Hidell ID being in the contents of Oswald's wallet. As someone noted earlier on this topic, officer Bentley didn't mention the Hiddell ID when he went on TV that day and described the contents of Oswald's wallet. The whole thing is peculiar.
The film footage and photo from the Tippit crime scene indirectly corroborates the FBI agent's (Barrett?) claim about Oswald's wallet being found before he was arrested (assuming the wallet in the film footage wasn't Tippit's).
What explains the discrepancy? I don't know.
There's two ways of looking at the Hidell issue;
1) The Occam's razor approach, Oswald ordered a mail order rifle with the alias Alek Hidell and took it to work and killed the President.
Or
2) The CT approach, where everything and anything needs to be possible, or plain and simply any conspiracy just won't work.
The following compiled list reflects the effort for just a tiny fraction of a planned conspiracy, the faking of Oswald's Hidell alias.
The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Klein's coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Klein's microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!
JohnM
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There's two ways of looking at the Hidell issue;
1) The Occam's razor approach, Oswald ordered a mail order rifle with the alias Alek Hidell and took it to work and killed the President.
Or
2) The CT approach, where everything and anything needs to be possible, or plain and simply any conspiracy just won't work.
The following compiled list reflects the effort for just a tiny fraction of a planned conspiracy, the faking of Oswald's Hidell alias.
The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Klein's coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Klein's microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!
JohnM
Just because you make up a list of things you believe must have happened doesn't mean they actually did happen.
What you believe conspirators must have done is nothing more than worthless speculation, just like your "Occam's razor approach" is in reality nothing more than a massive jump to a conclusion based on assumptions.
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Just because you make up a list of things you believe must have happened doesn't mean they actually did happen.
What you believe conspirators must have done is nothing more than worthless speculation, just like your "Occam's razor approach" is in reality nothing more than a massive jump to a conclusion based on assumptions.
Weedyman,
How and why do you figure the bad guys created the Hidell persona?
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OK, this is totally irrelevant, but it is pretty wild:
Perhaps you already know this, but in 1997 a writer bought the grave plot next to Oswald’s at the Shannon Rose Hill Cemetery in Ft. Worth and installed a joke marker with his pen name, “Nick Beef.”
(https://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/tx/TXFTWoswald__andrea1.jpg)
More relevant is that someone else bought a plot a dozen paces from Oswald and installed a marker that simply says “Hidell.”
(https://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/tx/TXFTWoswaldgrave_balfour.jpg)
In 2019, a newspaper reporter brought the significance of Hidell to the cemetery management, which then removed the marker. https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/other-voices/article228503184.html.
Yet another of my significant contributions to JFKA research. You’re welcome. (If you're thinking about a marker that says "Harvey and Lee," I'm way ahead of you. It's already been ordered.)