Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold  (Read 11604 times)

Offline Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2023, 12:39:04 PM »
Advertisement




   Thanks for posting that Paschall Film snippet at the top.  I know this is supposed to be Zapruder and Sitzman, but I seriously doubt that Zapruder could move/run that fast. We also need to firmly establish at Exactly what ground level are the 2 figures moving around at. This footage has always been most interesting. 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 12:43:14 PM by Royell Storing »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2023, 12:39:04 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2023, 06:17:39 PM »
   Thanks for posting that Paschall Film snippet at the top.  I know this is supposed to be Zapruder and Sitzman, but I seriously doubt that Zapruder could move/run that fast. We also need to firmly establish at Exactly what ground level are the 2 figures moving around at. This footage has always been most interesting.

You don't seem to have noticed that Sitzman is walking towards the alcove in the Bell footage.
What a shock.
So she didn't get off the pedestal and run straight down the hill. You are wrong.



Familiarise yourself with the film/photo record and use it to corroborate witness statements  Thumb1:

Offline Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2023, 06:44:44 PM »
You don't seem to have noticed that Sitzman is walking towards the alcove in the Bell footage.
What a shock.
So she didn't get off the pedestal and run straight down the hill. You are wrong.



Familiarise yourself with the film/photo record and use it to corroborate witness statements  Thumb1:

    Exactly! You fail to understand that You are discrediting your own witness. If Sitzman is wrong regarding her having got down from the Z Perch and then run down and up the Knoll, how do we now believe her story regarding a Black couple sitting on the bench and throwing down pop bottles? Or, her claiming she was confronted by G-Men on the Knoll? There are repercussions to your snippets above. Stop knee jerking and THINK things through.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 06:51:52 PM by Royell Storing »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2023, 06:44:44 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2023, 09:41:43 PM »
    Exactly! You fail to understand that You are discrediting your own witness. If Sitzman is wrong regarding her having got down from the Z Perch and then run down and up the Knoll, how do we now believe her story regarding a Black couple sitting on the bench and throwing down pop bottles? Or, her claiming she was confronted by G-Men on the Knoll? There are repercussions to your snippets above. Stop knee jerking and THINK things through.

It's good you've admitted you were wrong.
It'll do you good in the long run.
Sitzman isn't being untruthful or deceptive in what she's saying. She's talking about watching the President's head explode. It's a totally traumatic event. She hasn't included certain trivial details - so what?
From that you now question her whole account as if she's got something to hide.
It's ridiculous. There is no reason to suspect she is being deliberately misleading. To think so reflects on you, not her.
You need to learn various lessons about witness statements and the film/photo record. It might stop you making such silly statements.



Offline Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2023, 10:26:25 PM »
It's good you've admitted you were wrong.
It'll do you good in the long run.
Sitzman isn't being untruthful or deceptive in what she's saying. She's talking about watching the President's head explode. It's a totally traumatic event. She hasn't included certain trivial details - so what?
From that you now question her whole account as if she's got something to hide.
It's ridiculous. There is no reason to suspect she is being deliberately misleading. To think so reflects on you, not her.
You need to learn various lessons about witness statements and the film/photo record. It might stop you making such silly statements.

   Who said anything abou Sitzman being "deceptive", or suspecting that "she is being DELIBERATELY misleading"? With regard to her screwing up the chronology of her traveling down the knoll vs her going inside the Shelter, her track record now makes her just as likely to have seen the alleged Black Couple seated on the bench/breaking pop bottles BEFORE the JFK Limo entered Dealey Plaza. Based on what we have seen and heard from her, her memory is unreliable, and her verbal descriptions are nowhere near pin-point.   
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 10:30:16 PM by Royell Storing »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2023, 10:26:25 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2023, 10:42:41 PM »
   Who said anything abou Sitzman being "deceptive", or suspecting that "she is being DELIBERATELY misleading"? With regard to her screwing up the chronology of her traveling down the knoll vs her going inside the Shelter, her track record now makes her just as likely to have seen the alleged Black Couple seated on the bench/breaking pop bottles BEFORE the JFK Limo entered Dealey Plaza. Based on what we have seen and heard from her, her memory is unreliable, and her verbal descriptions are nowhere near pin-point.

She missed out a trivial detail and that's all.
Now you're saying things she actually witnessed aren't to be trusted because she missed out a trivial detail.
You need to have a think about what you're saying.
Saying she witnessed a young black couple or that she spoke to someone who identified themselves as a federal agent are things she actually remembers, not trivial details she forgot to mention.
You clearly can't see the difference and it says a lot about you and the way you look at this case.

Offline Royell Storing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2023, 11:46:34 PM »
She missed out a trivial detail and that's all.
Now you're saying things she actually witnessed aren't to be trusted because she missed out a trivial detail.
You need to have a think about what you're saying.
Saying she witnessed a young black couple or that she spoke to someone who identified themselves as a federal agent are things she actually remembers, not trivial details she forgot to mention.
You clearly can't see the difference and it says a lot about you and the way you look at this case.
 

"Trivial detail"? She reversed the order of her going inside the shelter with her traveling down and up the knoll. And, there are No Images or Eyewitnesses to back up her claiming to seeing a Black Couple sitting on the Bench and busting pop bottles as they ran up The Steps. Yet, alleged "researchers" are accepting her tale as being fact. This is why this case remains unresolved almost 60 yrs later. Uncorroborated  BS: being freely distributed as Fact. 
To provide some context to this Sitzman interview, Josiah Thompson flew into Dallas for a scheduled interview of Zapruder at the Dal-Tex Bld. At the last minute, Zapruder canceled the interview, leaving Thompson to then quickly pivot and instead interview Sitzman who was working there at the Dal-Tex Bld. Thompson never did manage to get an interview with Zapruder, even though his best seller, "Six Seconds In Dallas", was based on images filmed by Abe Zapruder.   
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 11:53:10 PM by Royell Storing »

Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2023, 12:30:48 AM »
 

   "Trivial detail"? She reversed the order of her going inside the shelter with her traveling down and up the knoll. And, there are No Images or Eyewitnesses to back up her claiming to seeing a Black Couple sitting on the Bench and busting pop bottles as they ran up The Steps. Yet, alleged "researchers" are accepting her tale as being fact. This is why this case remains unresolved almost 60 yrs later. Uncorroborated  BS: being freely distributed as Fact. 
     To provide some context to this Sitzman interview, Josiah Thompson flew into Dallas for a scheduled interview of Zapruder at the Dal-Tex Bld. At the last minute, Zapruder canceled the interview, leaving Thompson to then quickly pivot and instead interview Sitzman who was working there at the Dal-Tex Bld. Thompson never did manage to get an interview with Zapruder, even though his best seller, "Six Seconds In Dallas", was based on images filmed by Abe Zapruder.

 "Trivial detail"?

It doesn't seem possible to you that she mentions things that seem relevant to her in the interview? Standing in the alcove wasn't relevant. Going down the hill and telling people JFK had been killed seemed relevant. Going back up the hill and talking to someone who ID'd themselves as a federal agent seemed relevant. Standing in the shelter didn't seem relevant so she didn't bother mentioning it. It's a totally trivial detail that didn't need mentioning. You seem to expect that she would give Thompson a microscopic analysis of her every move.
The only problem is that you think it is relevant and, as usual, you're wrong.

And, there are No Images or Eyewitnesses to back up her claiming to seeing a Black Couple sitting on the Bench and busting pop bottles as they ran up The Steps.

This is typical of how you half read something and just make up the rest.
Nowhere in her interview with Thompson doe she mention seeing a black couple running up the steps. You've made this up but you probably don't even realise. It's typical of the standard you display as a "researcher". Then you get all wound up because nobody else saw something you made up.
It's a really poor standard.
For the record - When she first arrives at the pedestal, Sitzman is aware of a black couple sat on the bench we see in Darnell. She pays no further attention to them, she is interested in the motorcade.
The next time she becomes aware of them is after the limo enters the underpass and she hears breaking glass which draws her attention to the couple leaving the area of the bench in a hurry and running towards the back of the shelter.

This is why this case remains unresolved almost 60 yrs later.

The main reason the case remains unresolved is due to people like yourself who feel free to make up any old  BS: they feel. It's become an industry that has completely swamped this area of research. For people genuinely trying to understand the case, far more time is spent dealing with  BS: theories than anything else.
And the LNer community get a free ride because genuine researchers who are Cters can be brushed off as belonging to a bunch of crazies.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Shadow Man and Gordon Arnold
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2023, 12:30:48 AM »