The Important of Medical Evidence

[Charles Collins]

That’s an interesting clip Jerry. I would assume it came from some video that has a sound track that might help determine which shots and when. Also, what about the guy in the black shirt and red hat that is between the camera and Mr. Dutch, what he wounded also. It appears he either fell due to being hit or was taking cover. If taking cover, he reacted extremely quickly.

[Charles Collins]

David Dutch had two wounds. Were they from:

• Two whole bullets
• One whole bullet and one fragment
• Two fragments
• One bullet that caused both wounds, but the
  doctors didn't discern the connecting missile path
• Other?

Using the animation, my guess is that it shows a scene beginning when the first three shots were fired. The first bullet (or maybe fragment) hits the hand rail. If a whole bullet, then it (or if it fragmented at the hand rail, one the fragments) might have went one to hit the hydraulic line. We don't know if the hydraulic line was hit on the first shot. Mr. Dutch is not in view during the ricochet strike to the hand rail. So he could have received one of his wounds from a fragment of the first shot (if the first shot fragmented). Or he might have been struck first on the second shot, which leads to the question of what caused his second wound.

Has his doctors said they recovered two bullets from Mr. Dutch? I suppose these medical records are sealed unless the patient authorizes release. But the doctors will have to testify. How readily does 5.56mm ammunition disintegrate; what exact type of ammunition was used by the shooter? Many questions. Doesn't seem to me to eight bullets, none of which disintegrated. Maybe one or two. But early days.


Thanks, Charles. I can rule out the sonic boom causing the ear ache. Probably the temporary pressure cavity is a dead end because the bullet had not been in a tunnel surrounded by tissue. I thought by ear ache, they meant the ear canal, but I guess they were taking about the outer ear wound.

Thanks, Charles. I can rule out the sonic boom causing the ear ache. Probably the temporary pressure cavity is a dead end because the bullet had not been in a tunnel surrounded by tissue. I thought by ear ache, they meant the ear canal, but I guess they were taking about the outer ear wound.


For what its worth, here’s a link to a video (fair warning: if foul language offends you, please skip it, the ending might also be disturbing to some sensitive individuals so skip it if you are that way) that shows a reconstruction of the shot using a ballistic gel target. It is an interesting video but the clowning around banter they apparently think is entertainment doesn’t do much for me.

[Dan O'meara]

Why is this bullsh^t on the JFK forum.
There's another part of the forum dedicated to topics not related to the JFK assassination.

[Charles Collins]

The ricochet strike on what seems to be the very top of the hand rail is at the moment of the first shot (Trump is still talking). But we can't say for sure if that first bullet deflected and went on to puncture the hydraulic line. Closest I've found to it happening from a witness account is this:

    "The bullets rattled around the grandstand, one hit the speaker tower
     tower and then chaos broke. We hit the ground and then the police
     converged into the grandstands."
          -- Chris Takach, Firefighter, Steubenville, Ohio

I would say the first shot probably caused the hydraulic line hit via a ricochet.

If the man in the red hat (he is not James Copenhaver) was hit, he left the scene without telling anyone. James Copenhaver had two wounds, on his arm and abdomen. Mr. Dutch was struck "once in the stomach and once in the liver", according to an online post. I can find nothing on whether the two wounded men had bullet puncture wounds or if bullets were recovered.

The man in the red hat apparently reacted very quickly to get down as low as he could. He went down before Mr. Dutch fell all the way down. I also saw where Mr. Dutch walked away from the grandstand. That’s one tough ex-marine.

I noticed in the background of that clip of Mr. Dutch being shot that there was a large electronic screen displaying some charts. I believe that Trump said he had turned to look at a chart and point at it when the first shot apparently nicked his ear. I am thinking that the chart Trump was referring to was the other large electronic screen on the other side (Trump’s right side) of the stage. You can see it in this drone photo taken the next day. I have drawn a yellow line showing the approximate trajectory line of the bullets. And it is easy to see that Trump would have been facing more or less directly towards the shooter in order to see that chart.