Lame LN excuses

[Richard Smith]

Speculating about what did or did not happen to a jacket is by no standard evidence of anything.

No we don't know that Oswald was wearing a jacket when he left the boardinghouse. The only person who claimed that Oswald left wearing a jacket was Earlene Roberts and she failed to identify CE 162 because she believed that Oswald's jacket was darker. Buell Frazier's testimony suggests that Oswald was wearing CE 162 to Irving on Thursday evening. If Frazier is correct, there is no way that same jacket could have been at North Beckley at 1PM the next day.

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."  Do you believe that characterizing this jacket as white instead of gray precludes it from being the one found by the police?  Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.  She indicates that he had a jacket on.  Witnesses at the Tippit scene described a person they later identified as Oswald wearing a jacket.  Multiple witnesses, therefore, connect Oswald to a jacket before his arrest.  But when he is arrested, there is suddenly no jacket.  It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to sort out what happened.  Oswald understood that witnesses had seen a man wearing a jacket murder Tippit.  He removes the jacket in an attempt to change his appearance. 

[Martin Weidmann]

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."  Do you believe that characterizing this jacket as white instead of gray precludes it from being the one found by the police?  Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.  She indicates that he had a jacket on.  Witnesses at the Tippit scene described a person they later identified as Oswald wearing a jacket.  Multiple witnesses, therefore, connect Oswald to a jacket before his arrest.  But when he is arrested, there is suddenly no jacket.  It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to sort out what happened.  Oswald understood that witnesses had seen a man wearing a jacket murder Tippit.  He removes the jacket in an attempt to change his appearance.

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."

iirc it was described as being white during several radio calls, by different people.

Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.

No more or less silly than to rely fully on that witness.

The reason not to instantly accept her testimony is not that she was the only witness at the roominghouse, but the fact that Buell Frazier testimony suggests that Oswald was wearing the grey jacket (CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening and Otto has just shown us that Marina also confirmed that. There is no physical way for a jacket that was in Irving on Thursday evening to end up at North Beckley on Friday after noon. Which in turn justifies the question what jacket, if any, did Earlene Roberts really see?

We know from her testimony that she was blind in one eye and that she was concentrating on getting the TV to work, which means she would have been standing with her back turned to the living room. The walk from Oswald's room to the front door is a matter of seconds and if Roberts was looking at the TV she would probably only have seen him leaving as he reached the front door to go outside. All this justifies the conclusion that Roberts would only have seen Oswald for two or three seconds at best and she could easily have been mistaken about what he was wearing. Officer Baker was and he saw Oswald up close in the TSBD lunchroom and Whaley was, despite having Oswald sitting next to him in his cab. The testimony of Frazier and Marina clearly suggests that Roberts was indeed mistaken.

[John Mytton]

Marina said:

Mr. RANKIN. 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee's--an old shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Sort of a jacket?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Oops -- LOL

Huh? Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's, what about that makes you "laugh out loud", why do you find that funny?

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!



JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Huh? Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's, what about that makes you "laugh out loud", why do you find that funny?

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!

JohnM

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!

Speaking from experience, are you?

Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's

Yes indeed, and she confirmed what Buell Frazier said in his testimony; that Oswald was wearing CE162 to Irving on Thursday evening. Care to explain how it could have gotten to North Beckley the next day for Roberts to see Oswald putting it on?

[John Mytton]

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!

Speaking from experience, are you?

Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's

Yes indeed, and she confirmed what Buell Frazier said in his testimony; that Oswald was wearing CE162 to Irving on Thursday evening. Care to explain how it could have gotten to North Beckley the next day for Roberts to see Oswald putting it on?

Sorry Otto Roger Weidmann, Earlene Roberts was quite specific that Oswald was zipping up his jacket as he left the rooming house. Btw attacking Roberts and casting aspersions that she saw the precise action of zipping just because she was blind in one eye is pathetic.

Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Sorry Otto Roger Weidmann, Earlene Roberts was quite specific that Oswald was zipping up his jacket as he left the rooming house. Btw attacking Roberts and casting aspersions that she saw the precise action of zipping just because she was blind in one eye is pathetic.

Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.

JohnM

Sorry Otto Roger Weidmann

Are you so far gone that you can't tell people apart anymore?

Earlene Roberts was quite specific that Oswald was zipping up his jacket as he left the rooming house.

Yes, and Whaley was quite specific that Oswald was wearing two jackets and Buell Frazier and his sister were quite specific that the bag Oswald carried was not big enough to contain a broken down rifle, so what's your point?

Roberts was also very clear in her testimony that the jacket she saw was darker than CE162.

Btw attacking Roberts and casting aspersions that she saw the precise action of zipping just because she was blind in one eye is pathetic.

Nobody is attacking anybody, Mr "I'm only here for the truth". It's a statement of fact that she was blind in one eye. Just like it was a statement of fact that she was concentrating on the TV, which means she had her back turned to the room.

So, why do Frazier and Marina both place the grey jacket CE162 in Irving on Thursday evening and how did it get to North Beckley on Friday afternoon?

[John Mytton]

Mr. BALL - On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What color was the jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.
Mr. BALL - Did it have a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.
Mr. BALL - It isn't one of these two zipper jackets we have shown?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.

Frazier says "I didn't pay much attention to the package".

Mr. BALL - All right.
When you got in the car did you say anything to him or did he say anything to you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

Mr. BALL - Did it look to you as if there was something heavy in the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I didn't pay much attention to the package because like I say before and after he told me that it was curtain rods and I didn't pay any attention to it, and he never had lied to me before so I never did have any reason to doubt his word.


Mr. BALL - Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked, did it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight of a paper?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Mr. BALL - You will notice that this bag which is the colored bag, FBI Exhibit No. 10, is folded over. Was it folded over when you saw it the first time, folded over to the end?
Mr. FRAZIER - I will say I am not sure about that, whether it was folded over or not, because, like I say, I didn't pay that much attention to it.

Mr. BALL - But are you sure that his hand was at the end of the package or at the side of the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Like I said, I remember I didn't look at the package very much, paying much attention, but when I did look at it he did have his hands on the package like that.

Mr. BALL - Mr. Frazier, we have here this Exhibit No. 364 which is a sack and in that we have put a dismantled gun. Don't pay any attention to that. Will you stand up here and put this under your arm and then take a hold of it at the side?
Now, is that anywhere near similar to the way that Oswald carried the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, you know, like I said now, I said I didn't pay much attention--

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Mr. BALL - On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What color was the jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.
Mr. BALL - Did it have a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.
Mr. BALL - It isn't one of these two zipper jackets we have shown?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.

Total dishonesty by Mytton, as per usual. We know from the evidence that Oswald only had two jackets. When Frazier was shown CE 163 he said;

Mr. BALL - I have here Commission's 163, a gray blue jacket. Do you recognize this jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald wear this jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe I have.

That only leaves CE 162, which is the grey jacket. So, regardless of the less than perfect description by Frazier the grey jacket must be the one Oswald was wearing to Irving on Thursday evening and Marina confirmed it;

Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember anything else he was wearing at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems he had that jacket, also.
Mr. RANKIN. Exhibit 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Frazier says "I didn't pay much attention to the package".

Mr. BALL - All right.
When you got in the car did you say anything to him or did he say anything to you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

Mr. BALL - Did it look to you as if there was something heavy in the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I didn't pay much attention to the package because like I say before and after he told me that it was curtain rods and I didn't pay any attention to it, and he never had lied to me before so I never did have any reason to doubt his word.


Mr. BALL - Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked, did it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight of a paper?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Mr. BALL - You will notice that this bag which is the colored bag, FBI Exhibit No. 10, is folded over. Was it folded over when you saw it the first time, folded over to the end?
Mr. FRAZIER - I will say I am not sure about that, whether it was folded over or not, because, like I say, I didn't pay that much attention to it.

Mr. BALL - But are you sure that his hand was at the end of the package or at the side of the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Like I said, I remember I didn't look at the package very much, paying much attention, but when I did look at it he did have his hands on the package like that.

Mr. BALL - Mr. Frazier, we have here this Exhibit No. 364 which is a sack and in that we have put a dismantled gun. Don't pay any attention to that. Will you stand up here and put this under your arm and then take a hold of it at the side?
Now, is that anywhere near similar to the way that Oswald carried the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, you know, like I said now, I said I didn't pay much attention--

JohnM

And Earlene Roberts said she was paying more attention to the TV