LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?

[Steve Taylor]

193 is a clear frame of JFK waving, then blurring starts so I put the range from 194-206.  To narrow it down, I feel 200-206 were closer to the event and coincide with the Willis photo.

[Steve Taylor]

1.) Who said there were three shots? What if there were only two?
2.) The problems with a shallow back wound: a) Ruby shot Oswald with a snub-nose .38 special revolver. It's not a particularly penetrating projectile. Still, the bullet went from one side of Oswald to the other. A rifle bullet at any normal velocity would go at least as far. b)According to the Edgewood tests, the 6.5 Carcano bullets they tested only lost 400fps travelling completely through a simulated human neck made of meat covered with goatskin. Other experiments had determine that it takes a rifle-caliber steel ball about 150fps just to penetrate the skin. So a bullet that only burrows in an inch or so to the body is going to impact JFK travelling on the order of 200-400ft/sec. At 200ft/sec a bullet fired from 200ft away has a 1 second flight time, and will drop 1/2*(32.2ft/s/s)*1s = 16 feet. A bullet travelling at 400ft/sec will fly for 0.5sec and similarly drop 4 feet. So, to hit JFK with suck a pokey projectile, the shooter would have to be aiming for a point several feet above JFK's head, which doesn't make sense. c.) If the bullet was stopped by the spine, it would have caused severe damage to the vertebra.

Your later solution to 1. above seems reasonable.
Regarding 2. above, thank you for the understandable examples.  However, since we are working in round numbers let me modify your example.  At 400ft/sec, a round will drop 2 ft in a 100 feet distance.  Additionally, if it is flying at a 45 degree angle to the horizon, it should only drop 1 foot.  This is the difference between a head and back shot. Do you agree?

[Mitch Todd]

Your later solution to 1. above seems reasonable.
Regarding 2. above, thank you for the understandable examples.  However, since we are working in round numbers let me modify your example.  At 400ft/sec, a round will drop 2 ft in a 100 feet distance.  Additionally, if it is flying at a 45 degree angle to the horizon, it should only drop 1 foot.  This is the difference between a head and back shot. Do you agree?

At 400fps, a bullet will traverse a 100' range in 1/4 second. It will drop 1/2 * 32 * (1/4)^2 or 1'. The acceleration due to gravity is independent the direction it's fired. At 400fps, It's still going to drop 1' from the point of aim after 100'. Or are you meaning that the 100' is 45 degrees from horizontal, too? And where behind JFK is there a possible shooter location 100' from jfk @45degrees? 

[Mitch Todd]

That was the story.  But Dr. Robert Livingston said he called Humes prior to the autopsy and told him about the throat wound.

Robert Livingston also said that he called Humes at Bethesda between 3:30 and 4:00 that afternoon. Humes' has said that he didn't go to Bethesda until after he was called by Adm. Kenney at about 5:15. The first public mention that JFK's body was headed to the Naval hospital was at 5PM. He also remembered hearing statements from Dr Crenshaw on the radio that afternoon.

David Lifton pinged a number of inconsistencies in Livingston's various statements if you want to hunt it all down.

[Mitch Todd]

So really what you mean is that it's physically impossible for a normal 6.5 bullet fired from a Mannlicher Carcano rifle from the SE corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD and directly hitting JFK's back to have created a "shallow back wound".

Not physically impossible, per se. It is possible someone could have been aiming a few feet over JFK's head when the bullet just happened to be a dud. Or maybe Oswald really was even worse of a shot than the CT's want us to believe, and the Carcano ammo is even worse than Ollie Stone would suppose. I don't think you'd hold out too much hope for a scenario like those. It would be foolish to do so. This holds true for any firearm that could reasonably considered a possible murder weapon, not just a Carcano. Gravity tries to kill us at the same rate, no matter who we are, after all.

The SW corner of the TSBD is still 150' from the car, so the gravitational drop for a slow bullet would still be on the order of feet below the aim point. And the Dal-Tex building is even farther from the car than the SE corner of the TSBD. Unless you want to go Bonar Mennenger one better and have Hickey shoot JFK twice, the drop problem exists for any plausible back wound shooter location

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Robert Livingston also said that he called Humes at Bethesda between 3:30 and 4:00 that afternoon. Humes' has said that he didn't go to Bethesda until after he was called by Adm. Kenney at about 5:15. The first public mention that JFK's body was headed to the Naval hospital was at 5PM. He also remembered hearing statements from Dr Crenshaw on the radio that afternoon.

David Lifton pinged a number of inconsistencies in Livingston's various statements if you want to hunt it all down.

How would Livingston know at the time he called Humes that Humes would be the lead doctor - or one of the doctors - in the autopsy? Or even that the autopsy would be performed at Bethesda? Had that been announced on the radio/TV at that time? And I seriously doubt that Humes' name would be mentioned in any story at that time either.

As you point out, Humes testified that he never got any call from Livingston, that at the time that Livingston allegedly made it that he, Humes, was with his family preparing for a social event, and that he knew nothing at that time about any autopsy that was to be performed on JFK much less that he was going to perform it. Incorrect on that last part. Depending on when Livingston called him Humes had been told of the autopsy.

In any case, my question was about whether any SBTs were discussed during the autopsy by Humes et al. Humes and Boswell were interviewed by JAMA and both said they didn't consider the neck wound as a bullet exit wound until the next day. If that's true then it's obvious they didn't discuss any SBTs since they didn't know where the bullet that entered the back went.

[Jerry Organ]

On the interval the President's body is seen to narrow somewhat to the view, indicating that he not only leans to the Left front, but also is rotated to the left. The rotation of the shoulders begins as early as frame 195. His head comes around at 200-202. By frame 204 the President is facing almost directly forward.

There simply is no drastic narrowing of the body, rotation of the shoulders and left-front lean/rotation of the President between Z193 and Z198, the two clearest frames in that area. Mostly what I discern is Kennedy's right forearm seeming to naturally move while waving. It bends at the right elbow. It's possible Olson and Turner were mislead by latter frames having horizontal blur and a slightly-larger size ratio (the President incrementally increases in size as seen in Zapruder's camera as the limousine goes down Elm).

As the President moves and rotates to the left, his right arm is pulled back into the car. While his elbow has been resting outside the car, it comes up noticeably at frame 195. The President's elbow can be seen to cross the chrome strip on the side of the car at frames As President Kennedy disappears from view behind the sign, his right arm seems to he in a particularly unusual position the clearly visible gray of his suit coat indicating that his right arm and elbow have been raised at least to the level of his chin."

Z195, the frame referenced by Olson and Turner, is one of the more-blurred ones. Z200 is the last fairly clear frame showing much of the President's right shoulder/arm-area before he goes behind the sign. In Z200, the top of the sign has cropped the bottom of Kennedy's right elbow. This could be why Olson and Turner think the elbow has crossed the chrome strip, not realizing part of the elbow is blocked from view by the sign. In contending the right arm is elevated and level with the chin "as Kennedy disappears from view behind the sign," Olson and Turner are evidently confusing Kennedy's right shoulder line with his right forearm.

[John Iacoletti]

Robert Livingston also said that he called Humes at Bethesda between 3:30 and 4:00 that afternoon. Humes' has said that he didn't go to Bethesda until after he was called by Adm. Kenney at about 5:15. The first public mention that JFK's body was headed to the Naval hospital was at 5PM. He also remembered hearing statements from Dr Crenshaw on the radio that afternoon.

David Lifton pinged a number of inconsistencies in Livingston's various statements if you want to hunt it all down.

As if there aren't inconsistencies in Humes' various statements...