I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak (new book)

[Rob Caprio]

I have explained my position before. Although the WC was flawed and made mistakes I, on balance, accept the conclusion that LHO was a lone gunman and that there was no conspiracy before the act. There was, I believe, an attempt to cover up mistakes and hide certain things by the FBI & CIA and others. The question was did I support the speculation of the WC, and I said no because where there is unsupported speculation I do not take it as fact. Saying this is different from saying that the conclusion of the WC is generally correct in my view.

Thanks for the explanation. The problem with your answer however is that the WC's conclusion is based on speculation as they provided NO supporting evidence for their claims in the twenty-six volumes.

You do have a double standard as you accept speculation by the WC, but you won't accept it from a conspiracy author/researcher.  Why is that?

[Tom Scully]

I have explained my position before. Although the WC was flawed and made mistakes I, on balance, accept the conclusion that LHO was a lone gunman and that there was no conspiracy before the act. There was, I believe, an attempt to cover up mistakes and hide certain things by the FBI & CIA and others. The question was did I support the speculation of the WC, and I said no because where there is unsupported speculation I do not take it as fact. Saying this is different from saying that the conclusion of the WC is generally correct in my view.

Are there indications of conspiracy after "the act"?

https://quillette.com/2018/09/27/the-soviets-and-the-jfk-conspiracy-theorists/
Published on September 27, 2018  comments 25
The Soviets and the JFK Conspiracy Theorists
written by Fred Litwin

.....Jim Phelan wrote in the Saturday Evening Post that, after the Paese Sera article, Garrison?s switchboard ?blazed like a pinball machine gone mad.? He now had a direct link from Clay Shaw to the CIA.

Tom Scully comment:

IN 1952, CLAY SHAW HIRED AS TRADE MART PR DIRECTOR, RECENTLY SEPARATED CIA COVERT AGENT,
DAVID G. BALDWIN. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=54933&relPageId=2
Link to less legible copy with more background on preceding pages.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=30153&relPageId=4&search=baxter_and%20calcutta

In addition, the plethora of left-wing conspiracy enthusiasts who had flocked to New Orleans convinced Garrison to move away from his initial theory that the assassination had been motivated by homosexual thrill-seeking and to begin theorizing about an ever-widening plot. Over time, Garrison?s conspiracy would grow to include ?Minutemen, CIA agents, oil millionaires, Dallas policemen, munitions exporters, ?the Dallas Establishment,? reactionaries, White Russians, and certain elements of the invisible Nazi substructure.? But at the heart of Garrison?s thinking was some sort of massive CIA-planned assassination plot, although even that was somewhat malleable.

Clay Shaw was eventually found not guilty and the Garrison prosecution was exposed as a massive fraud. That didn?t stop Oliver Stone from making Jim Garrison the hero of his film JFK and Clay Shaw the evil villain. Stone, of course, makes use of the Paese Sera story, and does so with a subtle sleight of hand, characteristic of his slippery handling of facts. ...

Author Joan Mellon described interviewing 1200 people in the course of compiling her book on Garrison and his investigation.:

http://jfkfacts.org/thomas-jeffersons-affair-with-sally-hemings-tell-us-about-jfk/#comment-857445
Tom S.  February 11, 2016 at 4:40 pm
......
I was not aware until last night that Joan Mellen met Garrison just after the Shaw trial, in 1969.
I do not know what you?re inclination is, but mine is to attempt to make sense of the entirety of the details.
Would your question of me, if it is a valid premise, all one team giving the appearance of opposing factions,
account for the following (and for Stone?s film)? If not, what else might?:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen

Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK?s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
??.
Rex: Joan?.. One, there?s a story in the Grand Jury testimony told by three different parties involving Sheridan when he came out to do his NBC White Paper, having a meeting set up with an organized crime figure named Zachary Strate that was apparently set up by either Malcolm O?Hara, a judge who was a political enemy of Garrison?s, and a lawyer named Edward Baldwin. I wonder if you might tell that story about what that meeting was all about??

??

JOAN: ? when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people. Malcolm O?Hara is sitting there ? he doesn?t know what hit him ? and eventually Strate did not cooperate, and he went up there, and he attacked Sheridan ? of course, Sheridan had immunity ? nothing anyone could say about Sheridan whether in court, affidavits signed against Sheridan, Sheridan had immunity as a National Security Agency asset, cleared for FBI work, cleared for CIA work, working for the Department of Justice -??

The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin?s wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother
Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin,
and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison?s wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.

http://jfkfacts.org/thomas-jeffersons-affair-with-sally-hemings-tell-us-about-jfk/#comment-857496

Tom S.  February 11, 2016 at 10:51 pm


.....Garrison is describing Stephen B Lemann:

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html??d=176&tab=page
2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
(Top of right side column)
?It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency?.

December 21, 1991, JFK, the movie, is released in theaters.:
January, 1992 issue of GQ Magazine:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6761&search=lemann#relPageId=152&tab=page
The Case Against Jim Garrison
The ex-D.A.?s theory on who murdered JFK
reassessed and shot full of holes
By Nicholas Lemann

The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. | News | The Harvard Crimson
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
Feb 6, 1974 - The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. Politics. By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974 ... Garrison became the district attorney in New Orleans in 1962, ...

Can we dismiss as coincidence that Oliver Stone/Garrison critic Nicholas B Lemann had criticized Garrison
in print since the early 1970s but never disclosed that his uncle Stephen B Lemann sponsored a new career
for Father Machann, formerly of Dallas, or that David G Baldwin was the spouse of Nicholas's aunt Mildred and
son-in-law of Nicholas's grandmother, Mildred Lyons Lemann?

Russo v. Conde Nast Publications, 806 F. Supp. 603 (E.D. La. 1992 ...
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/806/603/1747985/
v. CONDE NAST PUBLICATIONS d/b/a Gentlemen's Quarterly. .... Lemann testified in deposition that his sole reference to Perry Russo was a reference to "his ...

SHOTS IN THE DARK | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1992/11/30/shots-in-the-dark
Nov 30, 1992 - Garrison's only witness to the "conspiracy" was an insurance man named Perry Raymond Russo, whose testimony was given under the ..

Nicholas Lemann ? Charlie Rose
https://charlierose.com/guests/1395
Lists all of Nicholas Lemann's appearances on the Charlie Rose program on ... Nicholas Lemann, David Denby, and Zachary Sklar debate historical fact versus ...

Bottom line.... I know more, or at least other than details about Garrison, Shaw and alleged interference in Garrison's
JFK Assassination investigation and the prosecution of Clay Shaw than the assumptions leading to author Fred Litwin's
analysis and strong opinion about Garrison and his motives. I am certain from the details unearthed in the course of
my research of only that authors Mellon, DiEugenio, and Litwin are not authorities on Garrison or Clay Shaw.
The blame for the contradictions and fog rests squarely on the shoulders of Jim Garrison and Dean Emeritus of
the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism, Nicholas B Lemann. Full disclosure has not been the practice of either
of these men....

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2009/11/01/windmills-revisited/
Windmills, Revisited
by Nicholas Lemann November 1, 2009
I reported for duty at the Washington Monthly on July 1, 1976......
.... The Monthly, methodologically, was
always reportorial, and it was never conservativebut, when I joined the magazine, the other editorial employee besides me and Charlie was Tom Bethell, an actual conservative, and it seemed as if the magazine devoted its main energies to attacking conventional liberal positions. ....

.....certainly not to Stone's co-screenplay writer, the editor of Garrison's biography, Zachary Sklar.

[Nicholas Turner]

Thanks for the explanation. The problem with your answer however is that the WC's conclusion is based on speculation as they provided NO supporting evidence for their claims in the twenty-six volumes.

You do have a double standard as you accept speculation by the WC, but you won't accept it from a conspiracy author/researcher.  Why is that?

From the evidence I have seen LHO being a lone assassin makes the most sense to me. This happens to coincide with the conclusion of the WC. I find the arguments put forward by conspiracy authors/researchers to be unconvincing overall. This may reflect bias in my thinking but I continue to look into the case and look at the arguments, hence my visiting this forum. I do feel there are areas of doubt, but think this is true in most cases, hence the idea of beyond reasonable doubt. I don't think, for me, the conspiracy idea is helped by some of the outlandish ideas put forward by some CTers which tarnish the whole CT camp.

I continue to have an interest, to look at the evidence but as present am not convinced. I'm not hear to try to convince anyone else but mostly to learn and try to understand what people think and why. I post only occasionally where I feel a mistake is being made or where I have a genuine question.

[Nicholas Turner]

Are there indications of conspiracy after "the act"?

In addition, the plethora of left-wing conspiracy enthusiasts who had flocked to New Orleans convinced Garrison to move away from his initial theory that the assassination had been motivated by homosexual thrill-seeking and to begin theorizing about an ever-widening plot. Over time, Garrison?s conspiracy would grow to include ?Minutemen, CIA agents, oil millionaires, Dallas policemen, munitions exporters, ?the Dallas Establishment,? reactionaries, White Russians, and certain elements of the invisible Nazi substructure.? But at the heart of Garrison?s thinking was some sort of massive CIA-planned assassination plot, although even that was somewhat malleable.

Clay Shaw was eventually found not guilty and the Garrison prosecution was exposed as a massive fraud. That didn?t stop Oliver Stone from making Jim Garrison the hero of his film JFK and Clay Shaw the evil villain. Stone, of course, makes use of the Paese Sera story, and does so with a subtle sleight of hand, characteristic of his slippery handling of facts. ...


Author Joan Mellon described interviewing 1200 people in the course of compiling her book on Garrison and his investigation.:

The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin?s wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother
Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin,
and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison?s wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.
Can we dismiss as coincidence that Oliver Stone/Garrison critic Nicholas B Lemann had criticized Garrison
in print since the early 1970s but never disclosed that his uncle Stephen B Lemann sponsored a new career
for Father Machann, formerly of Dallas, or that David G Baldwin was the spouse of Nicholas's aunt Mildred and
son-in-law of Nicholas's grandmother, Mildred Lyons Lemann?


Bottom line.... I know more, or at least other than details about Garrison, Shaw and alleged interference in Garrison's
JFK Assassination investigation and the prosecution of Clay Shaw than the assumptions leading to author Fred Litwin's
analysis and strong opinion about Garrison and his motives. I am certain from the details unearthed in the course of
my research of only that authors Mellon, DiEugenio, and Litwin are not authorities on Garrison or Clay Shaw.
The blame for the contradictions and fog rests squarely on the shoulders of Jim Garrison and Dean Emeritus of
the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism, Nicholas B Lemann. Full disclosure has not been the practice of either
of these men.........certainly not to Stone's co-screenplay writer, the editor of Garrison's biography, Zachary Sklar.

Lots of text there but couldn't actually work out the point you were making. Could you put it simply for me please?

[Martin Weidmann]

Lots of text there but couldn't actually work out the point you were making. Could you put it simply for me please?

couldn't actually work out the point you were making.


A common problem, I'm afraid.

I normally put it down to Tom being way ahead of me. 

[Rob Caprio]

From the evidence I have seen LHO being a lone assassin makes the most sense to me. This happens to coincide with the conclusion of the WC. I find the arguments put forward by conspiracy authors/researchers to be unconvincing overall. This may reflect bias in my thinking but I continue to look into the case and look at the arguments, hence my visiting this forum. I do feel there are areas of doubt, but think this is true in most cases, hence the idea of beyond reasonable doubt. I don't think, for me, the conspiracy idea is helped by some of the outlandish ideas put forward by some CTers which tarnish the whole CT camp.

Nothing is more outlandish than the SBT. I am not sure what evidence you are referring to since you have never cited it, but none of it supports the WC's claims.

continue to have an interest, to look at the evidence but as present am not convinced. I'm not hear to try to convince anyone else but mostly to learn and try to understand what people think and why. I post only occasionally where I feel a mistake is being made or where I have a genuine question.

The evidence doesn't support the WC's claims. My series shows this. Why does an UNSUPPORTED theory make the most sense to you? I really am curious.

[Tom Scully]

couldn't actually work out the point you were making.


A common problem, I'm afraid.

I normally put it down to Tom being way ahead of me. 

http://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-13/#comment-851707
Tom S. January 21, 2016 at 5:42 am
........
Now, Dr. McAdams can interject William Sheridan?s long relationship with RFK and Sen. Ted, and dump heaps of scorn on
authors Mellen and DiEugenio, as well as on the contents of their books, ask repeatedly what could anyone possible see as controversial about Nicholas Lemann or his status as Dean Emeritus of such a prestigious graduate school of journalism,
but how is any of that responsive to the facts?
.........

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/4573/rec/16



A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, Jfk's Assassination, and the ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1597973548
Joan Mellen - 2011 - ‎History
Returning to New Orleans, he joined a CIA proprietary, the Mississippi Shipping Company, run by a fellow homosexual, Theodore Brent. When the Agency ...


Harold Weissberg was conned by Jesse Core.:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/de%20Brueys%20Warren%20C/Item%2022.pdf


Jesse Core and his bride were feted by Gen. Edwin Walker's future landlord, at the same address Gen. Walker later leased:

[Tom Scully]

Lots of text there but couldn't actually work out the point you were making. Could you put it simply for me please?

Uhhhh....the crux of this is.... Joan Mellen first met Jim Garrison in 1969. She claimed she conducted 1200 interviews
in the course of authoring her book about Garrison.

In 2006, Joan Mellen participated in a Q&A with Rex Bradford. She named David Baldwin and his brother Edward
as the prominent CIA sponsored harrassers of Garrison and his investigation.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK's Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
......REX: I - I think -
JOAN: - when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people.....

No author, not Bill Davy, not Ms. Mellen, nor Jim DiEugenio or even Zachary Sklar was aware the two Baldwin brothers
were actually first cousins of Garrison's wife. Clay Shaw biographer Donald Carpenter discovered a 1967 letter to Clay Shaw from David Baldwin informed Shaw of the cousin relationship and that David Baldwin was also Liz Ziegler Garrison's godfather. Clay Shaw did not disclose the Baldwin Garrison familial ties.

JFK: The Book of the Film : the Documented Screenplay - Page 348
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1557831270

Oliver Stone, ‎Zachary Sklar - 1992 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
The Book of the Film : the Documented Screenplay Oliver Stone, Zachary Sklar. name names. Isn't it a bit unfair of Lemann to ask Garrison to do what these governmental investigators could not do? He had a small staff, was forced to battle the .

Nicholas B Lemann attacked Garrison in print from 1974 to 1992 through the Harvard  Crimson,
Washington Post, GQ magazine, in his sworn statement responsive to the lawsuit by Perry Russo against Lemann's
publisher, GQ owner Conde Nast, and on Charley Rose's televised panel debating Oliver Stone's film.
Lemann broke a basic obligation of a journalist to inform his readers of his conflict of interest because of his family.

Obit of Jim Garrison's wife's father, naming Mrs. Harry Raworth as his sister. Mrs. Raworth was Adele Ziegler,
the mother of David and Edward Baldwin. I hope the last three images displayed below are self explanatory.:


Monte Lemann married widowed Mildred Lyons Crumb in 1947.

New Orleans, Mon Amour - AEI - American Enterprise Institute
http://www.aei.org/publication/new-orleans-mon-amour/
What?s really been happening since Hurricane Katrina? Tom Bethell, dismayed by media coverage, traveled back to the beautiful and tragic city where he once lived for a firsthand view. He found this story of rebirth.
Mar 23, 2007 - Tom Bethell, dismayed by media coverage, traveled back to the beautiful and .... Tommy Lemann, as he is called by nearly everyone, is a colorful figure ... the consumption of oysters now requires a trek into the French Quarter.
.....But as a preliminary step I paid a call on an old acquaintance, Thomas B. Lemann , a lawyer well known to the city?s establishment.....

Again, the point here is no one knows what happened between Garrison and the Baldwin brothers because no
one ever disclosed that the Baldwins were first cousins of  Garrison's wife. No one knows what actually happened,
as far as actual motive for arrest and prosecution of Clay Shaw.