I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak (new book)

[Rob Caprio]

Hi Tommy, nice to hear from you. I always appreciated your work against the nonsensical H&L theory over at EF.

While I believe LHO acted alone for himself, I would definitely put your KGB theory above any CIA-did-it theories. I read Bagley's book and came away thinking that Nosenko could have been a false defector, a theory which puts me at odds with some LN advocates. He was either a false defector or alcohol had rendered him completely unable to remember simple details.

Why?

[Thomas Graves]

Rob,

Here's just one small clue: 

(Note:  The sentence in the article that starts, "But Moscow believed Oswald was a 'neurotic maniac' ..." would be much more accurate if it read, "But Moscow FALSELY CLAIMED IT believed Oswald was a 'neurotic maniac' ..." , or, on second thought, leave the sentence exactly as it is but emphasize the words "according to".  LOL

https://www.rferl.org/a/soviets-claimed-us-right-wing-lyndon-johnson-behind-kennedy-assassination-files-show/28820677.html

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And here's an eye-opening article about even earlier (like an hour or two after the assassination) Ruskie disinfo / active measures operation regarding the assassination of JFK:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2007/10/lucky-stars-ion-mihai-pacepa/


--  Tommy   

PS  Based on my recent "epiphany" (which Bill Simpich gave his stamp of approval to in a private Facebook Message) that James Angleton's (mis-spelled by the court reporter/stenographer during Angleton's June 1975 Church Committee testimony) TRIPLE AGENT "Byetkov*?" must have been Ivan Obyedkov (look him up), and the fact that Hoover's beloved (triple-agent) FEDORA had indirectly suggested that Kostikov was Department 13 (by fingering U.N. "diplomat" Oleg Brykin as same), I now believe that it wasn't James Angleton who contrived to plant the "WW III virus" in Oswald's file, after all, but ... gasp ... the Ruskies.

But, but, but ... WHY would they have done that, you ask?

Well, so that CIA and FBI, fearing nuclear war, would cover up evidence of Khrushchev's and/or Castro's involvement in the assassination, and so that, ironically, James Angleton could himself be semi-plausibly blamed years down the road for having "covered up CIA's involvement" -- blamed by the likes of Oliver Stone, John Newman, Peter Dale Scott, et al.

LOL

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Tracy,

"With all due respect," if you believe it might have been excessive drinking and/or stress that made it impossible for Nosenko to remember details and caused him to change his story so often, then I think you need to re-read Bagley's book "Spy Wars" (and his pdf "Ghosts of the Spy Wars," if you've already read it, that is -- if not, then read it right here for the first time!).

No, I agree that there is clearly something wrong with Nosenko.

[Oscar Navarro]

That's a good point - i.e., that the Soviets couldn't be sure that the US would take him back. Although there were other defectors at or near that time that had returned/been accepted.

The US, as I understand it, was obligated to accept his request to return. He never formally renounced his citizenship so he was still an American citizen with all of the guaranteed rights extended to them. Would the Soviets understand this? That is the US would have to take him back? I think probably so, especially if they were training him for some sort of intelligence work.

Additionally, the Justice Department did look into whether he could be prosecuted for any crimes and determined that they had no evidence for it (see the HSCA report on this). Threatening to divulge secrets is, apparently, not a crime. Although it is interesting that Oswald asked the US Embassy official that he talked with whether he, Oswald, could receive any guarantees about not being prosecuted upon his return. He was certainly worried about it.

The Mailer book - "Oswald's Tale" - included numerous conversations/interviews he did with about 18 or so Belarus KGB agents assigned to monitor Oswald. He also quotes extensively from taps and other primary sources that were made available to him. If all of that is true then the KGB viewed Oswald with suspicion and didn't consider using him for any intelligence work, that he had no aptitude for anything. When he decided to return to the US - and the KGB learned about it almost immediately - their reaction was one of relief. They were glad to see this nuisance leave.

 The US took it's time in evaluating Oswald before granting both him and his wife permission to return (in Oswald's case) to the US while the Soviets made it difficult for Marina to leave the workers paradise. Worked out both ways in the end.

[Rob Caprio]

Rob,

Here's just one small clue: 

(Note:  The sentence in the article that starts, "But Moscow believed Oswald was a 'neurotic maniac' ..." would be much more accurate if it read, "But Moscow FALSELY CLAIMED IT believed Oswald was a 'neurotic maniac' ..." , or, on second thought, leave the sentence exactly as it is but emphasize the words "according to".  LOL

https://www.rferl.org/a/soviets-claimed-us-right-wing-lyndon-johnson-behind-kennedy-assassination-files-show/28820677.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And here's an eye-opening article about even earlier (like an hour or two after the assassination) Ruskie disinfo / active measures operation regarding the assassination of JFK:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2007/10/lucky-stars-ion-mihai-pacepa/


--  Tommy   

PS  Based on my recent "epiphany" (which Bill Simpich gave his stamp of approval to in a private Facebook Message) that James Angleton's (mis-spelled by the court reporter/stenographer during Angleton's June 1975 Church Committee testimony) TRIPLE AGENT "Byetkov*?" must have been Ivan Obyedkov (look him up), and the fact that Hoover's beloved (triple-agent) FEDORA had indirectly suggested that Kostikov was Department 13 (by fingering U.N. "diplomat" Oleg Brykin as same), I now believe that it wasn't James Angleton who contrived to plant the "WW III virus" in Oswald's file, after all, but ... gasp ... the Ruskies.

But, but, but ... WHY would they have done that, you ask?

Well, so that CIA and FBI, fearing nuclear war, would cover up evidence of Khrushchev's and/or Castro's involvement in the assassination, and so that, ironically, James Angleton could himself be semi-plausibly blamed years down the road for having "covered up CIA's involvement" -- blamed by the likes of Oliver Stone, John Newman, Peter Dale Scott, et al.

LOL

But, JFK had a good relationship with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev so why would the KGB want him dead?

[Thomas Graves]

"But, JFK had a good relationship with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev so why would the KGB want him dead?"

Rob,

That's what I thought, too, until I read Bagley's "Spy Wars" and "Ghosts of the Spy Wars," got a handle (so-to-speak) on 90-plus years of KGB (and CHEKA, and OGPU, and NKVD, and FSB, and SVR, and ... etc, etc) ACTIVE MEASURES COUNTERINTELLIGENCE OPS (since 1959 artfully interwoven with Strategic/Operational Deception Counterintelligence Operations), and then read Chapter 10 ("Sinister Implications") of Mark Riebling's "Wedge: The Secret War Between The FBI and CIA", ... specifically from the last sentence on page 207 through the first sentence on page 209 in the 1994 book (pages 391 - 392 on my android).

The sentence that begins, "But what would the Soviets possibly gain from Kennedy's death ..."

https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity/page/n1

-- Tommy   

[Thomas Graves]

Someone asked me how the KGB could have possibly arranged for Oswald to get the job at the TSBD (I can't find the original post, now.)

Well, gosh ...

Since Ruth Paine helped Oswald get that job, and since CIA Counterintelligence Staff analyst Edward Clare Petty told Richard Russell around 1974 (as recounted in TMWKTM) that Oswald's buddy George DeMohrenschildt was probably a long-term KGB "illegal," it's reasonable to assume that the person DeMohrenschildt handed Oswald off to a couple months before the assassination, Russophile Ruth Paine, was KGB, too. 

--  Tommy 

PS  If it makes you feel any better, it was Petty who eventually came to the (erroneous) conclusion that James Angleton was himself a KGB "mole".

So, Petty can't be ALL bad, right?

LOL

(See my EF thread "Was George de Mohrenschildt a Long-Term KGB 'Ilegal'?" for details.

[Oscar Navarro]

Since Ruth Paine helped Oswald get that job, and since CIA Counterintelligence Staff analyst Edward Clare Petty told Richard Russell around 1974 (as recounted in TMWKTM) that Oswald's buddy George DeMohrenschildt was probably a long-term KGB "illegal," it's reasonable to assume that the person DeMohrenschildt handed Oswald off to a couple months before the assassination, Russophile Ruth Paine, was KGB, too.

The problem with this is that it was Linni Mae Randle who informed Ruth Paine that her brother Buell had gotten a job at the TSBD. Besides this Oswald could have been working at Padgett Printing if they had not contacted Padgatt -Chiles and Stovall as a reference.