I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak (new book)

[Thomas Graves]

Tom,

Ironically, The Mitrokhin Archive is much more likely to be an elaborate KGB/FSB deception than a CIA one,  But alas, you'd have to read Bagley's "Spy Wars" to know what I'm talking about ...

Regarding your Scribd author's or JFK researcher's or government funtionary's third-person description of Angleton's June 19, 1975, Church Committee testimony, if you'd look at the original transcript (see below), you'd see that somebody hand-wrote a "?" above the name Byetkov, indicating that no one by that name was known to the powers-that-be, which in-an-of-itself suggests that the name was probably mis-spelled by the stenographer/court reporter/transcriber. (Interestingly, this poor soul had a terrible time spelling Nikolai Leonov's name and some other Russian names correctly throughout the transcript.) Since Angleton suggests in this testimony (and goes into much greater detail for five or six pages in his February 9, 1976, testimony -- in which he refers to this triple-agent as "another hangnail" without mentioning his name), that this person was a triple agent in Mexico City, and that he was probably feeding disinformation to the CIA from Kostikov, it makes sense that "Byetkov*?" was non other than the Soviet Embassy security guard, Ivan Obyedkov (pronounced ahh-bee-ED-cough), who "volunteered" the radioactive (Department 13!) name "Kostikov" to Oswald, or, more likely, to Oswald's (KGB?  DGI?) impersonator, over the surely-known-to-be-tapped Sov Emb phone on 10/01/63, thereby effectively planting the Kremlin-coveringup WW III Virus in Oswald's CIA file.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1447&search=Angleton#relPageId=16&tab=page

PS:  Bill Simpich agrees with me that this triple-agent "Byetkov*?" must me Obyedkov.

...

A personal note, now, Tom --

Tom, I've always found your "research" to be very tenuous, very thought-associative, very laboured, very scattered, very exhausting, very obsessive, very tendentious, very seven-degrees-of-separationish, very boring, and, yes, even very ...... aww ... never mind.

Suffice it to say that I will engage you no further here, or anywhere else.

(I don't want to encourage or enable your obviously very serious ... aww ... never mind.)


-- Tommy 

[Thomas Graves]

Tom "The Infallible; Set In Cement" Scully,

I don't trust Christopher Andrew (nor fwiw, Oleg Kalugin, totally), myself.

Know why?

Because he seems to think Nosenko was a true defector,  that's  why.  LOL!

(Among other things.)

Good luck with your interminable genealogy and obituary and wedding announcement-based "research," Tom.

Bye, bye. Keep up the good work.

(Vladimir Putin and Julian Assassange absolutely adore you for what you do -- increasing demand for tinfoil yugely, and paving the way for more factchecking-free "elections".)

LOL?

-- Tommy 

[Rob Caprio]

Rob,

Why should I make things super-easy for you by trying to paraphrase, in fifty-words-or-less, what Mark Riebling and true-defector Pyotr Deryabin (ever heard of him?) say were excellent reasons for Nikita Krushchev's assassinating President Kennedy (with or without the help of Fidel Castro)?

Click on the link I provided, read the book (or at least the one page I pointed out to you), and then try to rebut what Riebling says.

It'll be good for you, and you might even learn something!

Or, if you prefer, avoid that information and that "take," and continue right along in ... well, ignorance ..., and continue to unwittingly spread the injurious products of "KGB" "active measures" and "operational deception" ops.

(You'll have to read Bagley's book "Spy Wars" (for free on the Internet) if you want to understand what those two forms of Russian counterintelligence operations are all about, and how the former has been so effective against our country and our allies for eighty-plus years, and especially after it was augmented -- by a kind of feedback system -- by the latter in 1959.)


--  Tommy   

PS  As to just two of the things the Kremlin got out of "it", I give you fifty years of dumbing-down and paranoia-inducing Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theories ("scoops" and "intel" gleefully provided over the years by the Ruskies; mostly revolving around the evil, evil, evil CIA, of course; on all SORTS of subjects), and the concomitant eventual installing of Russian Mobbed-Up "useful idiot" Donald Trump as our president by "former" KGB Counterintelligence officer Vladimir Putin, and his lackey-agent, Julian Assange.

So you are offering peoples' opinions. Got it. This is just your opinion. That is fine, but it is just an opinion.

[Thomas Graves]

Rob,

"JFK was killed by the evil, evil, evil CIA because he was threatening to pull U.S. forces out of South Vietnam, and was secretly improving relations with Fidel Castro, etc, etc, etc."

Fact or opinion?

Regardless, how many uncontested, established facts about the assassination can you offer us?

LOL

-- Tommy

[Rob Caprio]

Rob,

"JFK was killed by the evil, evil, evil CIA because he was threatening to pull U.S. forces out of South Vietnam, and was secretly improving relations with Fidel Castro, etc, etc, etc."

Fact or opinion?

Regardless, how many uncontested, established facts about the assassination can you offer us?

LOL

-- Tommy

This makes me wonder about you as I have NOT given my opinion about who was involved in this thread. So where did I say this?

JFK was killed by the evil, evil, evil CIA because he was threatening to pull U.S. forces out of South Vietnam, and was secretly improving relations with Fidel Castro, etc, etc, etc.

Why are you attributing this to me? Either quote me saying this or admit that you are using dishonest tactics.

Typical LNer tactic. *You* claimed that the Russians and the KGB were involved in the murder of JFK, but instead of supporting that you are trying to but the burden on me. That is very dishonest.

It is clear that you are just offering an opinion.

[Thomas Graves]

Rob,

"JFK was killed by the evil, evil, evil CIA because he was threatening to pull U.S. forces out of South Vietnam, and was secretly improving relations with Fidel Castro, etc, etc, etc."

Fact or opinion?

Regardless, how many uncontested, established facts about the assassination can you offer us?

LOL

-- Tommy

...

Caprio wrote:

Why are you attributing this to me? Either quote me saying this or admit that you are using dishonest tactics.

Typical LNer tactic. *You* claimed that the Russians and the KGB were involved in the murder of JFK, but instead of supporting that you are trying to but the burden on me. That is very dishonest.

It is clear that you are just offering an opinion.



Rob,

1) Why are you so defensive?  Did I attribute that "statement" to you, or is it more of a general-but-concise caricature of the typical "The CIA Killed JFK" conspiracy theorist's mind set?

2) Which part of the Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex do you believe killed Kennedy?  (LOL)

3) Got any ... uhh ... informed, fact-based opinions, like I do? 

4) Read that page in Riebling's "Wedge," yet?  How about this nifty 35-page pdf by Tennent H. Bagley for some background as to ... well, ... as to how the "KGB" really did win the Cold War, as evidenced by KGB-boy Putin's recent installation (with help from his lackey-agent Assange) of "useful idiot" Donald Trump as our president, thereby bringing to fruition decades of highly successful "active measures" and "operational deception" counterintelligence operations (the JFK assassination very probably being one of them) against our now highly gullible and "dumbed-down" and ... gasp ... brainwashed body politic.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362


-- Tommy 

[Rob Caprio]

Rob,

"JFK was killed by the evil, evil, evil CIA because he was threatening to pull U.S. forces out of South Vietnam, and was secretly improving relations with Fidel Castro, etc, etc, etc."

Fact or opinion?

Regardless, how many uncontested, established facts about the assassination can you offer us?

LOL

-- Tommy

...

Caprio wrote:

Why are you attributing this to me? Either quote me saying this or admit that you are using dishonest tactics.

Typical LNer tactic. *You* claimed that the Russians and the KGB were involved in the murder of JFK, but instead of supporting that you are trying to but the burden on me. That is very dishonest.

It is clear that you are just offering an opinion.



Rob,

1) Why are you so defensive?  Did I attribute that "statement" to you, or is it more of a general-but-concise caricature of the typical "The CIA Killed JFK" conspiracy theorist's mind set?

Generally when someone is responding to me I think they are talking to me and not some group they have invented. I haven't mentioned the CIA once so why are you mentioning them in EVERY reply to me?

You are attributing statements to me that I have NOT said and then you call me defensive? LOL. Good one.

2) Which part of the Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex do you believe killed Kennedy?  (LOL)

Why are you RUNNING from your claim that the Russians did it?

3) Got any ... uhh ... informed, fact-based opinions, like I do?

No. Unlike you and the WC I don't accuse people or groups of murder with no supporting evidence.

4) Read that page in Riebling's "Wedge," yet?  How about this nifty 35-page pdf by Tennent H. Bagley for some background as to ... well, ... as to how the "KGB" really did win the Cold War, as evidenced by KGB-boy Putin's recent installation (with help from his lackey-agent Assange) of "useful idiot" Donald Trump as our president, thereby bringing to fruition decades of highly successful "active measures" and "operational deception" counterintelligence operations (the JFK assassination very probably being one of them) against our now highly gullible and "dumbed-down" and ... gasp ... brainwashed body politic.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362


-- Tommy 

Telling people to read something is a copout. Five people can read something and come away with a different conclusion. *You* claimed on this board that the KGB and Russians killed JFK and still have NOT offered one piece of evidence for this claim.

Your opinion is duly noted.

[Thomas Graves]

Caprio wrote:

Telling people to read something is a copout. Five people can read something and come away with a different conclusion. *You* claimed on this board that the KGB and Russians killed JFK and still have NOT offered one piece of evidence for this claim.

Your opinion is duly noted.

...
...


Rob,

1) You're afraid to read one page in a well-sourced book I posted for you because somehow what's written on that page (paraphrasing here, Rob) "is open to five different interpretations by any five different people" (that's life, Rob), and yet you want me to post my (fact-based) opinions here (identical to what Bagley wrote in Spy Wars and Ghosts of the Spy Wars, and what Riebling wrote in Wedge (*with one exception; see below) so that you can .......... READ them?

How ironic.

2) I'm running away from my "opinion" that Khrushchev and / or Castro were responsible for the death of JFK, with or without a programmed-in-Minsk Oswald?

LOL!


-- Tommy   

PS  Whom do you believe killed JFK, Rob?

Got any uncontroverted "evidence" to back up your ....... opinion?

Did you form your opinions about the assassination by reading books, watching videos?

Are there any you think I should read / watch to bring me around to your way of thinking (whatever it is), or did your current "opinions" somehow spring automatically / mystically ... into your ..... mind?

LOL

*On page 126 of the 1994 edition of Wedge, Riebling says Bedell Smith was U.S. ambassador to the Soviet Union when CIA officer Edward Ellis Smith (look him up) became the first CIA officer recruited by the KGB (in Moscow in late 1956), when in fact Charles Bohlen was ambassador at the time.

In case you're interested, Edward Ellis Smith (or someone HE helped KGB to recruit in the U.S.) was that great JFK researcher Peter Dale Scott's "Popov's Mole," the traitor whom Angleton may have sent Oswald to Moscow to try to "dangle out," and whom false defector Yuri Nosenko successfully protected by giving false information to Tennent H. Bagley and George Kisevalter in Geneva in 1962.  You know, Yuri Nosenko, the KGB officer who "defected" to the U.S. six weeks after the assassination and swore up and down that the KGB hadn't  even interviewed Odwald during the 2.5 years the Marine Corps radar operator lived in The Workers' Paradise?

LOL