Conspiracy of the Three Stooges

[Howard Gee]

No it could not be two minutes. As I said you need to factor in the other events mentioned by other witnesses and what timeframe they occur. I will stick with 5 minutes. If you find something to support two go for it. Just don?t hold your breath trying to develop a solid argument.

OK, stick with 5.

You still havent explained what you meant by 'not buying your own theory...brilliant'

[Colin Crow]

Stil there, Colin.

I actually agree with you that BRW probably ate his lunch in the SE corner window.

Let's face it, the only plausible time for such a conspiracy to be hatched is in the scant moments the Stooges spent on the 5th floor before going downstairs.

Sorry, but I'm not buying.

You claim that the "only plausible time" to be hatched is "in the scant moments the Stooges spent on the 5th floor before going downstairs".

Your theory not mine. That?s the theory your not buying based on a false premise. Brilliant.

There were far more than scant minutes as already explained.

[Colin Crow]

Another point worth mentioning is that the three men were clearly important witnesses and two had been identified early, within minutes trying to leave the building by Brennan to police. Yet only Williams was taken to DPD that afternoon but only because he was identified as one of the workers on the 6th floor that morning.

This indicates to me that the three were not immediately forthcoming to the authorities in the TSBD with what they had witnessed. Other far less important witnesses were taken to make statements that afternoon yet Jarman and Norman were simply released and went home. Presumably Williams initial statement that mentioned them caused the FBI to interview Jarman the next day and Norman finally on the following Tuesday.

Williams (and the other two) knew that Brennan had seen them on the Fifth floor and failed to come forward with what they knew voluntarily and as we see Williams is deliberately deceptive in his first statement. Jarman too supplies nothing about the fifth floor trip in his initial statement.

[Howard Gee]

Hmmmm, seems to me you were discussing whether BRW at his lunch in the sniper's nest and when I told you that I agreed that he probably did, you responded with the 'not buying your own theory...brilliant' remark.

But OK, you were actually referring to the time the Stooges spent on the 5th floor after the shots.

Let's go with that.

And let's go with 5 minutes.

Let's reconstruct the hatching of the Stooge conspiracy.

One of the Stooges is still looking out the SE window about 30 seconds after the shots.

Let's say about 30 seconds later, all 3 Stooges are assembled on the west side of the 5th floor.

You take it from here.

I've spotted you the when and where help you asked for.

Think you can reconstruct the 'how' ?

Earlier in this thread I posted an imaginary conversation amongst the 3 Stooges in which they hatch and formulate the conspiracy, but it seemed silly to me that the stooges would be discussing covering for BRW being in the SN one minute after the shots rang out.

Go for it.

[Colin Crow]

Jarman
11/23/63
At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon. These employees were: Bill Shelley, Charles Givens, Billy Lovelady, Bonnie Ray (last name not known) and a Spanish boy (his name I cannot remember). To my knowledge Lee Oswald was not with us while we were watching the parade.

The day after Williams said that he, Jarman and Norman all travelled to the 5th floor and were only there a few minutes before the parade arrived, Jarman mentions nothing of this trip and the implication is that all the employees were outside watching the parade....except Oswald of course. The only information that can be gleaned from this statement is the approximate time of the "elevator race".

Williams tells the FBI the same day that he briefly visited the 6th floor.

Jan 14 FBI

Returned to 5th floor about 12.25

March 24 WC
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25.
Mr. BALL - Who do you remember was standing near you that worked with you in the Book Depository?
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman and Charles Givens and Daniel Arce.

Mr. JARMAN - We walked around to the back entrance and went through this door here, and this elevator here was up on six, I believe. And we walked around the elevator and took the west elevator up.
Representative FORD - How could you tell this elevator was at six?
Mr. JARMAN - Because after we got around to the other side we looked up.
Representative FORD - You could see it was on six?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Representative FORD - This was about what time?
Mr. JARMAN - That was about 12:25 or 12:28.

Norman

December 4 - SS

About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me.

March 18 - FBI

He was with Jarman and Williams on the 5th floor at 12.10 or 12.20

March 24 - WC

Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went back in the building, James and I

A crosscheck with the DPD radiologs indicates the Motorcade got to Main about 12.24pm.

Jarman estimated the time they left the front of the TSBD to be 12.20-12.25.  They walked approximately 200 ft to the west elevator and about 160 ft to the SE corner of the 5th floor. This would take about a minute or so at walking speed. The elevator took about 45 seconds to reach the 5th floor. They could have been in position on the fifth floor about 2 minutes after departing the front steps and may have been in position around 12.25-27 depending on the accuracy of the broadcast.

Williams was with them for only 3-5 minutes before the motorcade passed the TSBD. If he vacated the 6th floor at the time they first arrived below him, he was in the SN until 12.25, just 5 minutes before the shots.

The answer to Ball and Belin's question.

Williams left the 6th floor no sooner than 12.25pm.

[Colin Crow]

Hmmmm, seems to me you were discussing whether BRW at his lunch in the sniper's nest and when I told you that I agreed that he probably did, you responded with the 'not buying your own theory...brilliant' remark.

But OK, you were actually referring to the time the Stooges spent on the 5th floor after the shots.

Let's go with that.

And let's go with 5 minutes.

Let's reconstruct the hatching of the Stooge conspiracy.

One of the Stooges is still looking out the SE window about 30 seconds after the shots.

Let's say about 30 seconds later, all 3 Stooges are assembled on the west side of the 5th floor.

You take it from here.

I've spotted you the when and where help you asked for.

Think you can reconstruct the 'how' ?

Earlier in this thread I posted an imaginary conversation amongst the 3 Stooges in which they hatch and formulate the conspiracy, but it seemed silly to me that the stooges would be discussing covering for BRW being in the SN one minute after the shots rang out.

Go for it.

Howard, you obviously don?t believe me when I say I have not worked this out as yet. In fact to be honest this thread is as much for me to attempt to work out the evidence in chronological order as see where it takes me. This is the only way I can make any sense of this stuff. I will continue but it?s late here. As you can see I will only use official statements to build an argument and look for corroboration where ever possible. Consider this though.....as I have said it may be that whatever was said happened only after they were sent back inside after Brennan identified them. Certainly something happened before the first week of December, where both Jarman and Norman both came up with Williams initial false story about them all going up together at about 12.25.

[Howard Gee]

Jan 14 FBI

Returned to 6th floor about 12.25
----------

Jarman estimated the time they left the front of the TSBD to be 12.20-12.25.  They walked approximately 200 ft to the west elevator and about 160 ft to the SE corner of the 6th floor.
------------------------------

Williams left the 6th floor no sooner than 12.25pm.

I think you meant to say 5th floor in the first two quotes.

Now that you've rehashed the evidence for the umpteenth time and feel you have established BRW was on the 6th floor until 12:25 PM, can we get back to the Stooge Conspiracy that I'm assuming began around 12:32 PM ?

Try to stay focused.

[Howard Gee]

Howard, you obviously don?t believe me when I say I have not worked this out as yet. In fact to be honest this thread is as much for me to attempt to work out the evidence in chronological order as see where it takes me. This is the only way I can make any sense of this stuff. I will continue but it?s late here.

Colin, I believe you haven't worked this out. I'm just providing the help you requested earlier to help you work it out.

Obviously, I don't believe there was a Stooge conspiracy, but that doesn't mean I won't try to assist you.

Get your rest. We'll take this up again later.