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Author Topic: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?  (Read 71618 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2018, 10:37:14 PM »
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It has been shown that the SBT is impossible in many different ways, therefore, how can the LNers support the WC's claim that LHO committed the crime?

From what I have observed over many years they can't. That means they support a false claim. Why?

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2018, 10:37:14 PM »


Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2018, 10:39:01 PM »
It has been shown that the SBT is impossible in many different ways, therefore, how can the LNers support the WC's claim that LHO committed the crime?

From what I have observed over many years they can't. That means they support a false claim. Why?

Following the official line, Rob.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2018, 10:48:36 PM »
Quote me saying either statement. Failure to do so will again demonstrate that you are a dishonest person.

Good, so you believe that Ruby actually killed Ruby and the pubic hairs in evidence belong to Oswald, just like a WC supporter, nice!

JohnM

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2018, 10:48:36 PM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2018, 10:49:46 PM »
Didn't you just say that JFK was hit by the first shot and JBC the second ?

When (what Z frame) do you have the first shot hitting JFK and what frame do you claim JBC is hit by the second ?
JBC was hit by the second shot in the back/armpit but the evidence is that a fragment from this bullet struck the windshield, windshield frame and sunvisor and another struck Tague, so it did not cause the left thigh wound which had the characteristics of being struck by the butt end of an intact bullet. So, that means he was also struck by another bullet. The evidence is very consistent that JFK was hit on the first shot. That bullet went to the left of JBC's midline and did not strike the car inside. What does that tell you?

To determine when the second shot occurred study the evidence. It was, according to Greer, just before he turned around and saw JBC falling back. According to Altgens it was after he took his z256 photo. According to Nellie it was after she stopped looking back at JFK. According to about 40 witnesses it was after the midpoint between shots 1 and 3. According to Hickey it occurred when JFK's hair on the right side flew up.  You should be able to figure it out from that.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:53:25 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2018, 11:00:22 PM »
It has been shown that the SBT is impossible in many different ways, therefore, how can the LNers support the WC's claim that LHO committed the crime?

From what I have observed over many years they can't. That means they support a false claim. Why?
The SBT is only needed if JBC is reacting to his chest wound at z230 or so.  The evidence is consistent and overwhelming that the last two shots were in rapid succession, which means that there was only one shot before z250.  There is no reason Oswald could not have fired all 3 shots.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 11:02:05 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2018, 11:00:22 PM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2018, 11:42:53 PM »
You are saying he must be right on that point.

In order to determine if he was right one has to look at all the evidence. Nellie said he was turned. He told Dr. Shires that he was turned to the right. Nellie said that she turned to look at JFK after the first shot and never looked back after the second shot. She is turned looking back at JFK until z268. Greer said that he turned around immediately after the second shot. He does not turn until z278-280. Over 40 witnesses gave evidence that the second and third shots were in rapid succession, closer together than 1 and 2, which puts the second shot well after z235, which is the last time JBC faced forward. So there is an awful lot of evidence that his recollection in April 1964 that he was facing forward when hit by the second shot was not correct.

It may be that he thought he was facing forward because he had turned as far to his right and saw that JFK had moved left and just decided to turn to his left when he was hit. So rather than an actual recollection of where he was facing, he was reconstructing it in his mind and thought he had turned because that is what he was trying to do. Once he was hit he was in shock and had other things on his mind.   
I figure that the guy who best knows what Gov. Connally was doing when he was shot is Gov. Connally, his other experiences notwithstanding. That being said, how can you say, "we can't rely on what Connally tells us" then turn around and tell us that we should instead pay heed to what Tom Shires said that Connally said? If Connally isn't reliable, then Connally-via-Shires would be even less so!

So let's run down what the various players said between the assassination and the Warren Commision hearings. I'm using semicolons to separate different events in sequence, according to each instance of testimony:

John Connally/Agronsky: Heard a shot; turned to his left; as he turned, he was hit; said "My God, they're going to kill us all"; Kennedy hit again

John Connally/WC: Heard a shot; turned to his right; was turning back to the left; was hit in the left turn while facing forwards; said "Oh, no, no, no", then "My God, they're going to kill us all"; "doubled up" and turned to his right; was pulled into his wife's lap; Kennedy hit again

Nellie Connally/WC: "heard a noise"; turned to her right, saw JFK with his hands up at the same time her husband said "Oh, no, no, no"; "there was a second shot*"; "he recoiled to the right" and "looked away from me" while saying "My God, they're going to kill us all"; she pulled him into her lap; Kennedy hit again

Shires/WC: "She had thought, and I think correctly so, that he had turned to his right after he heard the first shot, apparently, to see what had happened to the President, and he then later confirmed this, that he heard the first shot, turned to his right, and then was hit. I forgot about that a moment ago, incidentally. He definitely remembers turning after hearing the first shot, before he was struck with a bullet. I forgot about that."

What Shires recalled is perfectly consistent with what Connally told the Commission.
 
The "shot-while-turning-left" memory appears during the Agronsky interview, which was only a few days after the assassination. In fact, that interview was conducted while Connally was still in his hospital bed. It short-sheets anything Shires recalled later  to the WC. And it remained in the Governor's testimony until he died.  That tells me it's a core memory of the event in his mind. He and Nellie also both agreed that he turned right as a reaction to being shot. The shot-while-turning-left recollection and the right-turn-as-reaction memory put a constraint on when he could have been hit. He turns left beginning about frame 195 and doesn't start to noticeably "recoil to the right"until after frame 235.


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2018, 11:45:03 PM »
You heard it folks. To Gee the actual evidence is a "pain in the butt." I guess so when it shows that all the claims by the WC are false.

Why do you support false claims Gee?

Stop twisting what others say.
Howard said the scrolling is what is the pain in the butt
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 11:46:48 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2018, 11:50:28 PM »
Stop twisting what others say.
Howard said the scrolling is what is the pain in the butt

Rob twisting testimony and what people say, say it ain't so.

Quote
Howard said the scrolling is what is the pain in the butt

Exactly and when members reply to him and don't "snip" Caprio's post, then we get double trouble.

JohnM
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 12:01:32 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2018, 11:50:28 PM »