In 54 years has it ever been proven that CE399 is the bullet found at Parkland?

[Martin Weidmann]

Naturally you will have noted the lack of response to your question.

Yes I have....

So much so that it might inspire me to ask more of these questions, if only to help the LNs to deconstruct their own case by staying silent or being unable to come up with credible information about vital parts of their fairytale. I can think of a couple of good questions to ask right now.

[John Mytton]

OK, let's start with where it ended up (Frazier and the FBI) and work
backwards.

Frazier testified about how he got the bullet from Elmer Todd (3H428).
Both Todd and Frazier had marked their initials on the bullet (CE 2011).

Todd had gotten the bullet from James Rowley, of the Secret Service.
Rowley had gotten it from an agent, Richard Johnsen.  Johnsen filed a
report about getting the bullet (18H798-799), and forwarded a note along
with the bullet (18H800).  The note said, in part, " . . . the attached
expended bullet was received by me about 5 minutes prior to Mrs. Kennedy's
departure from the hospital." 

The note further named the "person from whom I received this bullet" as
O.P. Wright.

I can't find any WC testimony from O.P. Wright, although CE 2011 records
that he passed the bullet along.  And then, we have Tomlinson's WC
testimony that he gave the bullet to Wright, and Johnsen's written
statements that he got the bullet from Wright.

Further, Thompson interviewed Wright in 1966.  He managed to get Wright to
say that CE 399 didn't look like the bullet that he had handled, but he
never for an instant denied getting the bullet from Tomlinson and giving
it to Johnsen.  SSID, p. 175.

Translation:  CE 399 would have been perfectly admissible.  At most, the
Oswald prosecution would have had to call some of these guys to the stand.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cece399.txt

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

OK, let's start with where it ended up (Frazier and the FBI) and work
backwards.

Frazier testified about how he got the bullet from Elmer Todd (3H428).
Both Todd and Frazier had marked their initials on the bullet (CE 2011).

So, this places the bullet now in evidence as CE399 in the hands of the FBI.

Todd had gotten the bullet from James Rowley, of the Secret Service.

What bullet? You say "the bullet" but what does that mean? Can you show that "the bullet" is the one now in evidence as CE399?

Rowley had gotten it from an agent, Richard Johnsen.  Johnsen filed a report about getting the bullet (18H798-799), and forwarded a note along with the bullet (18H800).  The note said, in part, " . . . the attached expended bullet was received by me about 5 minutes prior to Mrs. Kennedy's departure from the hospital." 

The note further named the "person from whom I received this bullet" as O.P. Wright.

Yes, we know all that, but was the bullet Johnsen received from Wright, and passed on to Rowley, the same one as the one now in evidence as CE399?

I can't find any WC testimony from O.P. Wright, although CE 2011 records that he passed the bullet along.  And then, we have Tomlinson's WC testimony that he gave the bullet to Wright, and Johnsen's written statements that he got the bullet from Wright.

What bullet?

Neither Tomlinson, Wright or Johnsen can confirm that the bullet they handled on 11/22/63 was the same as the one now in evidence as CE399!

Further, Thompson interviewed Wright in 1966.  He managed to get Wright to say that CE 399 didn't look like the bullet that he had handled, but he never for an instant denied getting the bullet from Tomlinson and giving it to Johnsen.  SSID, p. 175.

What do you mean with "He managed to get Wright to say"? ?. Did he somehow force Wright to make a false statement? Is that what you are claiming?

The facts are fairly simple; Wright can't confirm that the bullet he got from Tomlinson and passed on to Johnsen was indeed the bullet now in evidence as CE399. In fact, he not only failed to identify CE399 when allegedly shown to him by Odum but he clearly states that the bullet he saw did not look like CE399.

Btw the WC took testimony from Tomlinson but they never asked him to identify the bullet CE399 (which wasn`t entered into evidence until after Tomlinson`s testimony). Considering that lawyers never ask questions they already know the answer to, why do you think they failed to show CE399 to Tomlinson for identification?

Translation:  CE 399 would have been perfectly admissible.  At most, the Oswald prosecution would have had to call some of these guys to the stand.[/b]
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cece399.txt

JohnM

Complete rubbish. I don't care about your opinion about the admissibility of evidence at a trial that will never happen. I wanted you to show that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital and you have failed miserably to do so.

[John Mytton]

So, this places the bullet now in evidence as CE399 in the hands of the FBI.


What bullet? You say "the bullet" but what does that mean? Can you show that "the bullet" is the one now in evidence as CE399?

Yes, we know all that, but was the bullet Johnsen received from Wright, and passed on to Rowley, the same one as the one now in evidence as CE399?

What bullet?

Neither Tomlinson, Wright or Johnsen can confirm that the bullet they handled on 11/22/63 was the same as the one now in evidence as CE399!


What do you mean with "He managed to get Wright to say"? ?. Did he somehow force Wright to make a false statement? Is that what you are claiming?

The facts are fairly simple; Wright can't confirm that the bullet he got from Tomlinson and passed on to Johnsen was indeed the bullet now in evidence as CE399. In fact, he not only failed to identify CE399 when allegedly shown to him by Odum but he clearly states that the bullet he saw did not look like CE399.

Btw the WC took testimony from Tomlinson but they never asked him to identify the bullet CE399 (which wasn`t entered into evidence until after Tomlinson`s testimony). Considering that lawyers never ask questions they already know the answer to, why do you think they failed to show CE399 to Tomlinson for identification?


Complete rubbish. I don't care about your opinion about the admissibility of evidence at a trial that will never happen. I wanted you to show that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital and you have failed miserably to do so.

I asked you in another thread to tell me who in 54 years has ever said they planted or manufactured any evidence in the JFK case and before you ran away your only answer was this weak attempt at diversion.

The facts are that CE399 would be admitted into court and you can't do a thing about it.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

I asked you in another thread to tell me who in 54 years has ever said they planted or manufactured any evidence in the JFK case and before you ran away your only answer was this weak attempt at diversion.

The facts are that CE399 would be admitted into court and you can't do a thing about it.

JohnM

I asked you in another thread to tell me who in 54 years has ever said they planted or manufactured any evidence in the JFK case and before you ran away your only answer was this weak attempt at diversion.

You fool! If you can not show the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland (and you can't), it must have come from somewhere else!

The facts are that CE399 would be admitted into court and you can't do a thing about it.

No. That facts are that you think that CE399 would be admitted into court (which btw by itself means very little) and you need to argue that because you have nothing else.

[Walt Cakebread]

I asked you in another thread to tell me who in 54 years has ever said they planted or manufactured any evidence in the JFK case and before you ran away your only answer was this weak attempt at diversion.

You fool! If you can not show the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland (and you can't), it must have come from somewhere else!

The facts are that CE399 would be admitted into court and you can't do a thing about it.

No. That facts are that you think that CE399 would be admitted into court (which btw by itself means very little) and you need to argue that because you have nothing else.

The facts are that CE399 would be admitted into court and you can't do a thing about it.

No. That facts are that you think that CE399 would be admitted into court (which btw by itself means very little) and you need to argue that because you have nothing else.

(which btw by itself means very little)

Very true....  Even if CE 399 were admitted into court  There is a whole string of questions that would be attached to it....One of them would definitely be; If after verifying that the bullet had in fact been fired through the barrel of CE 139....  WHEN was it fired ??

[John Mytton]

I asked you in another thread to tell me who in 54 years has ever said they planted or manufactured any evidence in the JFK case and before you ran away your only answer was this weak attempt at diversion.

You fool! If you can not show the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland (and you can't), it must have come from somewhere else!

The facts are that CE399 would be admitted into court and you can't do a thing about it.

No. That facts are that you think that CE399 would be admitted into court (which btw by itself means very little) and you need to argue that because you have nothing else.

While your side relies on some mysterious unknown boogeyman, we rely on logic and science.

1. Who could possibly know how many bullets and fragments would be recovered at the crime scene or in the Limo?
2. Before Connally's surgery was finished and before Kennedy's autopsy, who could possibly know how many bullets were in the two men?
3. Before the two men's injuries were analysed who could possibly know that a whole bullet would fit their injuries?
4. Who could possibly know that their planted bullet needed to be missing a tiny amount of lead?

I would like to see someone create a plausible alternative narrative of exactly what bullet Tomlinson found and why the conspirators risked just leaving the bullet where it possibly may have not been connected with this case?

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

While your side relies on some mysterious unknown boogeyman, we rely on logic and science.

1. Who could possibly know how many bullets and fragments would be recovered at the crime scene or in the Limo?
2. Before Connally's surgery was finished and before Kennedy's autopsy, who could possibly know how many bullets were in the two men?
3. Before the two men's injuries were analysed who could possibly know that a whole bullet would fit their injuries?
4. Who could possibly know that their planted bullet needed to be missing a tiny amount of lead?

I would like to see someone create a plausible alternative narrative of exactly what bullet Tomlinson found and why the conspirators risked just leaving the bullet where it possibly may have not been connected with this case?

JohnM

While your side relies on some mysterious unknown boogeyman,

Which side would "your side" be? Am I member of some sort of club without knowing it, or are you just simply paranoid?

And what "mysterious unknown boogeyman" do you mean and how can one rely on somebody who is unknown?


we rely on logic and science.

That's only true if you mean by "logic" pure speculation, self serving assumptions, unwarrented leaps of faith and nitpicking evidence.

As for the science.... you don't rely on it. You misrepresent it in every way possible.


1. Who could possibly know how many bullets and fragments would be recovered at the crime scene or in the Limo?
2. Before Connally's surgery was finished and before Kennedy's autopsy, who could possibly know how many bullets were in the two men?
3. Before the two men's injuries were analysed who could possibly know that a whole bullet would fit their injuries?
4. Who could possibly know that their planted bullet needed to be missing a tiny amount of lead?

Silly questions that are completely irrelevant for what's being discussed here, because if the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was never in Parkland Hospital (and it's evidentiary life did indeed begin in the FBI lab in Washington) all four questions asked could be easily answered after the fact.

Although there was talk early on about a bullet having been found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital, just how long did it take after that before the narrative about CE399 (and the limo fragments) became known in the public domain?