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Author Topic: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"  (Read 59916 times)

Online John Mytton

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2018, 11:55:45 PM »
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Bledsoe did not see Oswald on the bus. Deal with it.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, well?

JohnM

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2018, 11:55:45 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2018, 12:08:01 AM »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, well?

JohnM

Yes, too bad you haven't got any!

Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2018, 12:13:32 AM »
Yes, too bad you haven't got any!

You said that Bledsoe did not see Oswald on the bus. Where's the evidence for that claim?

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2018, 12:13:32 AM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2018, 02:19:37 AM »
Why do you keep running Caprio, I continually post evidence and you continually ignore it.

Let's take a look at the following Bledsoe affidavit and can you tell us how Bledsoe on the very next day knew so much about the bus journey that Oswald took, or was she just part of your massive/tiny conspiracy?

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe, w/f 67, 621 N. Marsalis, Dallas, Texas, Telephone WH2-1985 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Last Friday, November 22, 1963, I went downtown to see the President. I stood on Main Street just across the street from Titche's until the parade passed by. The I walked over to Elm Street and caught a bus to go home. The bus traveled West on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made a stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get on the bus. The traffic was heavy and it took quite sometime [sic] to travel two or three blocks. During that time someone made the statement that the President had been shot and while the bus was stopped due to the heavy traffic, Oswald got off the bus and I didn't see him again. I know this man was Lee Oswald because he lived in my home from October 7, 1963 to October 14, 1963.

/s/ Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 23rd DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Patsy Collins
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


JohnM

This is her claim, but where is the supporting evidence for it? Why do you disregard the affidavits by Weitzman and Boone, but put complete faith in Bledsoe's?

Why can't you ever cite supporting evidence?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2018, 02:24:49 AM »
Stop making up stuff, I never made that claim.

And what about McWatters who confirms all of Bledsoes recollections?

Yes Oswald looked like Oswald and he had McWatters Bus transfer in his pocket and besides multiple interrogators said that Oswald admitted being on a bus.



JohnM

You're not telling the truth again. No surprise there.

It is funny that you would use those resources since they show that LHO said that he took a bus to his rooming house if valid.

***************************************

This one is short and sweet regarding the issue of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) taking a cab to his rooming house following his departure from the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building.

Note -- I should also state that the PURPOSE of this series is to show the CLAIMS of the WC are NOT supported by the actual evidence.  This series is NOT about my opinions, beliefs, or anything else regarding my thoughts.  I need to make this clear since several LNers are misleading folks as to my motive for this series!


********************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) and took a bus AND A CAB to get to his rooming house room to retrieve the pistol and jacket.  But as John Mytton showed Captain Will Fritz testified to something else LHO said he did!

Mr. BALL. What did he say?

Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

IF one believes this testimony, and LNers have to, it shows us LHO said he took the BUS NEAR TO WHERE HE WAS STAYING, and NEVER took a cab as the WC claimed! Thus, their conclusion is sunk again.

**************************************************************

McWatters, the guy driving the supposed bus LHO took per the WC, said that LHO was NEVER on his bus.

*********************************************

The Warren Commission (WC) would have liked to have had more than Mary Bledsoe to rely on for the identification on the bus Lee LHO Harvey Oswald (LHO) allegedly took when he left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) shortly after the shots were fired (a bus that was HEADING BACK to Dealey Plaza (DP) by the way) because as we have seen previously in this series they could NOT show Bledsoe ever saw or knew LHO prior to 11/22/63.

Initially the Dallas Police Department (DPD) got Cecil McWatters to say he identified Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) as the man on his bus, but he quickly recanted this statement.  The WC and its defenders make a big deal about a bus transfer allegedly found on LHO (I have to say this because it was NOT found for some time after he was arrested and searched), but this transfer was EXPIRED by the time LHO reached his rooming house and he said he changed shirts.  So why would LHO bring an EXPIRED transfer with him?  Let's look at Cecil Mcwatters' testimony regarding the transfer.


*******************************************

Senator COOPER - Was the fact then that you were shown a transfer by the police that called your attention to that?

Mr. McWATTERS - I guess that would probably be--

Senator COOPER - Another man?

Mr. McWATTERS - That would probably be the reason. I don't know of any other reason that it would be unless it was the transfer, that I can recall.

Senator COOPER - Are you absolutely certain that you did see another man on that bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Do you mean the day?

Senator COOPER - A man other than the teenager?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I picked up a man.

Senator COOPER - Where?

Mr. McWATTERS - Along about Griffin Street that knocked on the door of the bus.

--------
Senator COOPER - Why was it then that when you made this affidavit, you wouldn't remember that a man knocked on the door to get in the bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Just like I say, I guess it never did dawn on me until I just got to thinking about it and everything, and I had this boy, I mean was the one I was referring to in that affidavit right there.

In other words, he was just kind of a slight build, so far as him and Oswald, I guess they probably somewhere in the same size, I don't know. But I was mistaken in that, in other words, that was the boy right there--

So we see he says he was mistaken for saying he gave a transfer to LHO.  Let's face it, this could have been a man involved in some way that got a transfer simply to pin on LHO later on to try and show he was on this bus.

Senator COOPER - What is it about this transfer that makes you know that it was a transfer which you issued?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, you look at that old punch mark, I guess as many times as I have punched it--

Senator COOPER - Does each--does each-driver have a different punch?

Mr. BALL - When you weren't here he showed us his punch and he punched it for us. He has got his punch.

Mr. McWATTERS - Each driver has a different punch. They all are registered. In other words, regardless of how many there are--that is my punch right there--there is some shape or form different, just like I say the superintendent has every man's name and a punch mark right on down, in other words, so when-

First of all, it is quite annoying the way McWatters was constantly cut off.  Secondly, we see the transfer in evidence came from McWatters' punch gun, but since there is NO chain of custody for the transfer this is meaningless in tying it to LHO.  Furthermore, the man who would have given out this transfer said it was NOT LHO too.

It becomes clear that McWatters initially confused LHO for a teenager he has on his bus a lot.  Milton Jones.


Senator COOPER - Have you ever reported to the police the fact that you have carried as a passenger since November 22d the teenager whom you have now identified as having the name of Milton Jones?

Mr. McWATTERS - Did I ever report it to the police?

Senator COOPER - Yes.

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Senator COOPER - Have they ever been back to talk to you any more about this?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

I wonder why the police never followed up with him?

Senator COOPER - Have you seen photographs of a man who is named in those photographs as being Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Have I saw them?

Senator COOPER - Yes, sir.

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Well, now, you have seen this young man, Milton Jones, several times since then?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Now after having seen him several times since then, and having seen these photographs of the man who is identified as Lee Oswald--

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Senator COOPER - Does Milton Jones look like Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they both, just like I say, about the same height, and same build, and everything, as far as identifying looking at a man in the face of course, I know him now, distinctly.

So we see why he confused Jones for LHO on the day of the assassination.  Now for the issue of whether he would say LHO was on the bus and whether he gave him a transfer as the WC would claim.

Mr. BALL - You didn't--as I understand it, when you were at the police lineup, you told us that you didn't--weren't able to identify this man in the lineup as the man who got off, that you gave the transfer to.

Mr. McWATTERS - I told them to the best of my knowledge, I said the man that I picked out was the same height, about the same height, weight and description. But as far as actually saying that is the man I couldn't--

Mr. BALL - You couldn't do it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't do it now.

"This man" of course was LHO as they mention the "number 2 man" in other parts of the testimony.  We see that McWatters would NOT say the man who boarded his bus and got a transfer was LHO.  Again, we see the WC, and its defenders, have NO supporting evidence for their claims.

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2018, 02:24:49 AM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2018, 03:03:39 AM »
This is her claim, but where is the supporting evidence for it? Why do you disregard the affidavits by Weitzman and Boone, but put complete faith in Bledsoe's?

Why can't you ever cite supporting evidence?

Quote
Why can't you ever cite supporting evidence?

You really are a miserable boring old lying Fart who can't handle the evidence, but understand this, I am the only one who has actually posted any relevant evidence;

I posted Bledsoe's affidavit.
I posted Oswald's bus transfer.
I posted Fritz's testimony saying Oswald said he caught a Bus and Cab.
I posted Bookout's testimony saying Oswald said he caught a Bus and Cab.
I posted McWatters testimony that supports Bledoe's recollections.

And you in return you have only rubber stamped each of your replies with your exceedingly tedious "supporting evidence?" mantra. It's no wonder why your posts were removed, you're genuinely certifiable.

JohnM



 

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2018, 03:28:32 AM »
You really are a miserable boring old lying Fart who can't handle the evidence, but understand this, I am the only one who has actually posted any relevant evidence;

I posted Bledsoe's affidavit.
I posted Oswald's bus transfer.
I posted Fritz's testimony saying Oswald said he caught a Bus and Cab.
I posted Bookout's testimony saying Oswald said he caught a Bus and Cab.
I posted McWatters testimony that supports Bledoe's recollections.

And you in return you have only rubber stamped each of your replies with your exceedingly tedious "supporting evidence?" mantra. It's no wonder why your posts were removed, you're genuinely certifiable.

JohnM

You've posted *claims* that are NOT supported by the actual evidence. That is why you avoid the actual evidence at all cost. You have presented nothing that shows that Bledsoe knew LHO by sight or that LHO took McWatters' bus.

You're sunk. 🚽

Online John Mytton

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Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2018, 03:58:22 AM »
You've posted *claims* that are NOT supported by the actual evidence. That is why you avoid the actual evidence at all cost. You have presented nothing that shows that Bledsoe knew LHO by sight or that LHO took McWatters' bus.

You're sunk. 🚽

So you have no answers, no worries.

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: "Out with Bill Shelley in front"
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2018, 03:58:22 AM »