WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA

[Andrew Mason]

It would be valid if your 3D study was legitimate but it's a total conceit.

So show us yours. I showed you all the dimensions. If you have a problem with the dimensions tell us what they should be:

You see, the more things in a 3D analysis that actually relates to what is seen in the Zapruder film, the more confidence can be placed in it. I think I'm doing pretty good for someone on a consumer HP Pavilion trying to do something with SketchUp.

You are very good at doing graphics but in order for me to assess your 3D accuracy I would need to see it.  Your 3D picture sure looks like a bullet through JFK's neck to JBC's right armpit goes left to right. Show me that I am wrong

The Select Committee, Myers and NOVA (2013) studies weren't perfect (neither is mine, of course). But the best 3D studies just aren't finding that Connally was turned as much towards the car rail as you portray. Now it could be that you alone know more than these graphics experts or can see body positions on film that others cannot.

So tell us how much he is turned in your graphic and why.  I'll go with your graphic.

You won't admit to it, but to make your theory work, you were forced to move Kennedy away from the car rail more than he is ...

I was going by the sightlines from Zapruder that puts JFK between the left handhold and the spare tire enclosure in z193. One can also see the top right corner of the rear seat back behind JFK's right shoulder, so he is not as far right as possible.  But I stand to be corrected if you can show otherwise.

... and you stretched out the distance between the two men.

The distance from JFK's throat exit to the jumpseat back is 19 inches if I recall correctly.  I will check it. What do you say it is? You should be able to do that from your 3D model. You just draw a couple of arrows between different points at different angles and say there is a problem. Show us the numbers and how you arrive at them.

[Tim Nickerson]

I don't know who rotates their torso other than from their spine.

Everyone rotates their torso around their longitudinal axis.

If the spine rotates around some notional body axis, then the spine would have to physically move laterally every time we turned,

That is correct. Connally's spine moved laterally to the left when he rotated to the right. Not much, but move it did.

which means that the hips would have to move.

Not necessarily. But I'm not arguing that Connally never moved his hips either.

What you need to do is show us a video of someone turning right 30 degrees from forward and show us how their right shoulder moves left 3 inches. 

Nope.

I am just saying that:

1. suppose he was closer to 10.2 cm inboard, say 13 cm (5.1 inches). and say
2. the first shot struck JFK in the neck at z195 (which, unlike the phantom missed shot at z155 or so which no one observed and which conflicts with at least 3 large bodies of mutually consistent evidence, fits the evidence) when the angle from the SN to the car direction was about 13 or 14 degrees.

Then the bullet through JFK's neck crossed the plane of JBC's jumpseat an additional 14-15 cm further left.  If JBC's spine was 13 cm left of JFK's then the bullet would have passed to the left of JBC's spine by 1-2 cm.   But at z195, JBC was turned so the plane of his back was aligned generally in the same direction as the right to left bullet path so the bullet would not necessarily have struck his back.  We know it didn't.  But that was not the only part of his body that was on the left side of the middle of his jumpseat.  And there was a wound on his left side.  What is "invalid" about that?

The SBT tries to drive a square peg into a round hole.  No one said it had occurred and many said it didn't.  There is another explanation that does not conflict with the evidence but is still consistent with the overwhelming evidence that all shots were fired using Oswald's MC.

The SBT does not try to drive a square peg into a round hole, but I know something that does.

[Andrew Mason]

Not this again? You think I'm would use a left-to-right trajectory?

I can't tell. It sure looks like JBC's right armpit would be right of JFK's midline in your drawing.

Connally is turned so as to reflect his appearance in the Zapruder film.

I agree if you are using z224 positions. So show how that puts his right armpit left of JFK's midline.  The angle of a shot from the SN was about 9 degrees right to left at z224.  I was showing the position at z197.

I think that's shadow fall onto the seat top, not a portion of the seat-back between Kennedy and the car's interior. So that doesn't justify moving Kennedy inboard more than he was.

So how far from the inside of the car was his midline? I can't measure that on your drawing.

Whatever you're using, it's not helping your 3D work to match what's seen in the film.

I'm still waiting for your numbers or measureable views. Show us the overhead view with the angle to the SN through JFK and JBC.

[Rob Caprio]

Brother Rob, we both know there is no convincing you. The bullet exited JFK's throat at 2000fps. Where do you think it went? JBC was directly in front of JFK.

A second shooter fired from where? The trajectories of the wounds tell you somewhere in this theory is an assassin firing two shots with three shells on the floor.

Cite the evidence that shows the bullet "exited JFK's throat at 2000fps". Go ahead. I'll wait.

It is not my job to figure out from where. Only to point out that it happened based on the evidence.

[Tim Nickerson]

Brother Rob, we both know there is no convincing you. The bullet exited JFK's throat at 2000fps. Where do you think it went? JBC was directly in front of JFK.

2000 f/s is at near muzzle velocity (2100 f/s). That's too fast. The bullet exited JFK's throat at about 1700 f/s. It yawed upon exiting and then struck Connally at that velocity relatively sideon. It struck his rib at about 1400 f/s.

[Rob Caprio]

2000 f/s is at near muzzle velocity (2100 f/s). That's too fast. The bullet exited JFK's throat at about 1700 f/s. It yawed upon exiting and then struck Connally at that velocity relatively sideon. It struck his rib at about 1400 f/s.

Could you please cite your source for it exiting at "about 1700 f/s"?

[Tim Nickerson]

Could you please cite your source for it exiting at "about 1700 f/s"?

I was wrong. It was actually closer to 1800 f/s. From the WC testimony of Dr. Alfred Olivier:

Dr. OLIVIER. We determined the distance on various people by locating this anatomical region and using people of various sizes we found that regardless of general body build, the distance penetrated was around 13 1/2 to 14 1/2 cm. As a consequence, I used gelatin blocks 20 percent gelatin cut at 13 1/2 cm lengths and also used horsemeat and goatmeat placed in a box so that--this was a little harder to get the exact length but that varied between 13 1/2 and 14 1/2 cm. of muscle tissue.
Mr. SPECTER. Did that simulate, then, the portion of the President's body through which the bullet is reported to have passed, as closely as you could for your testing purposes?
Dr. OLIVIER. As closely as we could for these test purposes; yes.
..................
Mr. SPECTER. What measurement was obtained as to the entrance velocity of the bullet at the distance of 60 yards which you described?
Dr. OLIVIER. The striking velocity at an average of three shots was 1,904 feet per second.
Mr. SPECTER. And what was the average exit velocity on each of the substances used?
Dr. OLIVIER. For the gelatin the average exit velocity was 1,779 feet persecond. The horsemeat, the average exit velocity was 1,798 feet per second. And the goatmeat the average exit velocity was 1,772 feet per second.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/olivier.htm

[Steve Howsley]

I was wrong. It was actually closer to 1800 f/s.

Tim, Isn't it nice to occasionally be 'in error' when the actual evidence strengthens your position.