Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting

[Oscar Navarro]

Arnie initially said the figure in the west window was about 10-12 feet (or so) back of the window, but later changed that to 3-5 feet or so. This is one reason why the investigators interviewed him often, and checked his backstory thoroughly. Of course these characters see nothing but sinister intent.

And yes, Arnie himself said he pointed out the man to his wife, but by the time see looked the guy was gone from view.

Arnold Rowland is trotted out as if his testimony corroborates any of their kooky claims just as that of Roger Craig. It's all  but it makes for an interesting tale.

[Oscar Navarro]

Mr. BELIN. Could you make that line a little darker, sir, that you have put on. All right. Now, at that first point, this would be--
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe I walked a little south there, just observing them picking the man up.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
You have marked a line on Exhibit No. 478 heading a little bit south on the west side of Houston street, commencing at the southwest corner of the intersection, which is where you say you walked to watch the man with the epileptic fit, is that it?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I didn't go up--he was almost center way of the block here. I didn't go up that far.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And will you put the letter "H" there, if you would?
Mr. BRENNAN. Where I was standing watching the man?
Mr. BELIN. Where you were standing watching the man; yes.
Mr. BRENNAN. Right there.

Seems to me he says he observed them pick the man up while he was standing. Then he went to sit on the retaining wall. The ambulance did not arrive until about 12.24. (Police transcripts).

Why go with Brennan?s vague time estimate when we have actual timestamps to confirm more accurately. In any event Brennan was clearly focussed on the man with the seizure until he sat on the retaining wall. At that time he starts to observe the surrounding buildings.....TSBD etc. that is the salient point.

And you refuse to respond with an opinion regarding the factual statement posed relating to Williams first day transcript. Seems intentional, why? Fear?

Happy to discuss Norman by the way whenever you are ready.

Fear! of what? I've already provided more than enough material on what I think of BRW testimony so that you can draw your own conclusions. Norman said he went up at 12:15 before his WC testimony. Since you put so much weight on the pre-WC testimony accounts then do so with Normam, or are you scared! Booooohhhooooo!!!!!

[Oscar Navarro]

Who said these witnesses didn't see anything?

You are a sensitive one when challenged. This would be a lot easier if you, with all the witnesses of your choosing, would come up with a time the first shot was fired. If you are certain of your witnesses and their testimony then you should not have a problem coming up with a time of the first shot being fired.

 

I've already told you that the first shots were fired at z157-160. Now figure out the time span between when the Hughes film cuts off and z157-60 and you'll have your answer. I'm not going to work out the math for you since I'm not interested in whatever it is that you're trying to prove.

[Oscar Navarro]

Point out where I'm assuming anything. FFS, is your memory so short that you forget that I just suggested that one should not assume what any given witness woulda/shoulda/coulda done?

You're assuming that the sixth floor sniper could have gone to the fifth floor and that the three amigos would still be in danger. What does FFS mean?

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

I've already told you that the first shots were fired at z157-160. Now figure out the time span between when the Hughes film cuts off and z157-60 and you'll have your answer. I'm not going to work out the math for you since I'm not interested in whatever it is that you're trying to prove.

That's ok because your subjective view creates an impossible narrative. You base the time of the first shot on nothing except cobbling together pieces of nonsense. No one sees a man in the window, out of the window firing and then back in the window. Sorry but if there was a man firing a weapon(one they can prove was used, which they can't prove it was a Mauser or a  Mannlicher Carcano) then there is only enough time to take one potshot, that does not mean 2 or 3 it means 1 as in 1.

[Colin Crow]

Fear! of what? I've already provided more than enough material on what I think of BRW testimony so that you can draw your own conclusions. Norman said he went up at 12:15 before his WC testimony. Since you put so much weight on the pre-WC testimony accounts then do so with Normam, or are you scared! Booooohhhooooo!!!!!

Seems you are incapable of responding when your claims are proven incorrect. I just posted the proof that Brennan did not take position as early as you claimed.....also your offering of the 6th floor motorcade timeline that was proven incorrect. I provided the primary source, something that took me about 2 minutes to find on the web. Decker's call about Main from the police transcripts. You simply ignore those offerings and now you cherrypick Norman's 12.15 call as if it is gospel and impacts in any way on the timing analysis. Yet you think the same witness made up the memory of a Main Street call. Do you trust the guy or not.....or simply when he can be used in a pathetic attempt to nullify every other indicator that places them leaving much later.

You still refuse to agree or disagree with the notion that Jarman and Norman supported Williams first day statement. Seems when your "beliefs" are challenged and you are unable to mount anything like a sound foundation for you them and your "thoughts". They simply have the Oswald did it alone, Rowland was some sort of deluded clairvoyant and Craig the bald-faced liar, filter applied.

I prefer to live in the world where corroborated facts form the basis of meaningful debate. The ironic thing is my analysis does nothing to disprove the LN scenario. At least in a previous discussion John Mytton attempted to understand the ramifications of the assembled evidence and eventually concluded that Williams likely saw Oswald in the SN and was on the 6th floor after 12.25.

I visit this forum, (in the now apparently forlorn hope), to learn more about the topic, discuss and debate. I now hold no hope of any such meaningful outcomes eventuating with interactions with you, or any of your ilk.

I shall leave you in a state of bliss, with your religious LN convictions intact.

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

I've already told you that the first shots were fired at z157-160. Now figure out the time span between when the Hughes film cuts off and z157-60 and you'll have your answer. I'm not going to work out the math for you since I'm not interested in whatever it is that you're trying to prove.

" First Shots" Are you suggesting there were a set of shots like maybe from more than 1 location? Oscar, do you feel guilty in your heart, if so, let it all out.
Z157-60??? Be serious, that is a lifetime away from any shot, any means pick from  6 options which really would only be 1....that's right ...the first bullet 1 and any of the 6 bullets depending on the 6 official stories meaning 6 versions. It is confusing to read but it also was intended to be that way so people like you would throw up your hands right away selling your soul to the devil instead of simply challenging the government on just one of the hundreds of pieces of tainted evidence === Lazy

[Zeon Mason]

Oswald locations, according to WC:

11:50-6th floor, in the vicinity of the SE corner, "kicking some boxes" according to Charles Givens.

12:00- 1st floor, by the rear elevators, by Eddie Piper. Oswald told Piper either "going out" or "going back up"

12:15- 2nd floor lunchroom, seen by Carolyn Arnold. No conversation occured however.


12:31:30 (approx 90 sec post shots) seen by DPD officer Baker, and Roy Truly, in the 2nd floor lunchroom


12:32 approx: Seen entering the back door of the 2nd floor office, by Mrs Robert A. Reid, who herself was entering the front door of
the office at 2 minutes post shots, according to Mr. Belins "stopwatch" trial time renactment. Oswald was not wearing his brown shirt nor his jacket, was only in his white T-shirt, and was carrying an unopened coke.


12:32:25 (2 minutes 25 sec post shots), Oswald exits the front door of the 2nd floor office.His jacket and brown shirt have been left in the 2nd floor lunchroom presumably, the last place seen wearing at least the brown shirt, by Baker, at approx 1 minute earlier.


12:32:30 (2 minutes 30 sec post shots) Oswald seen by reporter Pierce Allman on the 1st floor in the lobby. Allman had just run into the TSBD, before it got locked down by DPD officer Barnett, who was certain it was not later than 3 min post shots when he locked
 the door.


12:33- Oswald has managed to exit the TSBD, with both his jacket and his brown shirt on, getting out before 3 minutes post shots, where both rear and front doors are secured. 


Now the anomallies from the above timeline:

Givens taking an elevator to 6th floor just 5 minutes approx after Oswald has shouted to send one up, and then Oswald does not take the opportunity when the elevator does arrive, to ride down to 1st floor with Givens? Instead, Oswald chooses to walk down 6 staircases?

Speaking to Eddie Piper at 12:00. Was it "Im going back up" or was it: "I am going out?"  It doesnt make much sense to have just come down 6 flights of staircases just to tell Piper something insignificant as "going back up". Because if Oswald is in the TSBD, anywhere, Truly will send message if Oswald needed. The more probable statement is "going out" and said so to Piper so that Truly would  NOT ask Piper to go find Oswald, since Oswald is "Out temporarily".

Why did Oswald go "out" of TSBD at 12:00? Either to go buy lunch, or get lunch out of that 24"package, or to meet with someone, concerning that 24"package.

12:15 sighting of Oswald by Carolyn Arnold in the 2nd floor lunchroom. Arnold Rowland, also, at 12:15 is observing a man with a rifle that appears to be a 30.06 rifle with a large scope, standing for a few seconds at the 6th fllor South WEST window. Rowland at this point tells is wife and asks her if she can see the man. The man moves away however, before Mrs Rowland can see him.

12:32 (2 minutes post shots and 30 seconds after being seen by DPD officer Baker at 90 sec post shots)- Mrs Reid has somehow enttered TSBD front lobby and its COMPLETELY empty. NO one is there. Just Mrs Reid all by herself. Goes up the front staircase, and enters 2nd floor office and sees Oswald entering the back door of that office.  Oswald exits about 2 min 25 sec post shots, so if he returns to lunchroom immediately, using the 80 ft length hallway, and 20 more feet into lunchroom, that's 100 ft and then returns to lobby, that's 140 ft, plus the 20 step front stair, that would have precluded any meeting Peirce Allman just entering the front door, because the time would be 3 min 25 sec post shots, well past Barnetts "certain" time of not later than 3 min, securing front door.


Note, this Mrs Reid encounter with Oswald is compounded by the anomally of the Malcolm Couch film supposedly starting not unitl 24 sec post shots, but actually when cross referenced with Wiegman cutting his camera on the Grassy knoll at approx. 13 sec posts shots, this event captured by Couch, as Wiegman is seen in the background on the GK 8 sec into the Couch film. This means Couch film would have had to begin approx. 5 to 6 sec post shots to have recorded Wiegman "turning", thus cutting his film of the 2 persons on the Pergola and restarting to film the Newmans.