When did Jarman and Norman go to the 5th floor?

[Walt Cakebread]

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below? And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

Was there some stretch in assuming they went up from the street and through the building together, including passing by the domino room?

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below?

Sure... if he had a neck like a giraffe .......

And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

Sure.... with his giraffe neck he could have looked down from the sixth floor window and seen them.

Was there some stretch in assuming they went up from the street and through the building together, including passing by the domino room?

Stretch?? interesting choice of words there Mr Organ......  Considering that Lee would have had to STRETCH his giraffe neck to see what you propose....

[Bob Prudhomme]

Colin

If Jarman and Norman did not go up to the 5th floor until 1220-1225, and Bonnie Ray Williams did not descend from the 6th floor to join them until after that, that can only mean BRW was present on the 6th floor, almost right on top of the Sniper's Nest, slightly before the motorcade passed at 1230.

How would Oswald have been able to re-arrange all of the boxes in the SN without BRW hearing or seeing him, as BRW was within spitting distance of the SN?

[Bob Prudhomme]

My guess is that everything was arranged and the rifle was assembled (if it needed to be) during one of the morning hours. I believe the idea is that he moved two boxes, weighing about eight pounds each, from the center area of the floor to the SN. These boxes included the one on top of a larger box that was near the open window and a similar box that was set up on the window box.

The other boxes had been shifted there from the first aisle (western-most) where they had begun to lay a plywood covering.

Sounds pretty complicated, Jerry.

Think he had help?

[Colin Crow]

Colin

If Jarman and Norman did not go up to the 5th floor until 1220-1225, and Bonnie Ray Williams did not descend from the 6th floor to join them until after that, that can only mean BRW was present on the 6th floor, almost right on top of the Sniper's Nest, slightly before the motorcade passed at 1230.

How would Oswald have been able to re-arrange all of the boxes in the SN without BRW hearing or seeing him, as BRW was within spitting distance of the SN?

The departure of BRW is something we need to consider. Maybe best done in another thread. For now is there anyone who disagrees with the time of around 12.25 or perhaps a bit later for the arrival of Norman and Jarman on the 5th floor? If not perhaps we can move on.

[Colin Crow]

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below? And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

Was there some stretch in assuming they went up from the street and through the building together, including passing by the domino room?

It is not impossible Jerry. My read of their testimonies indicates that they stayed close to the entrance on the west side. Truly was initially on the east side near the mailboxes. Truly mentioned them leaving with  Givens, who went to another location near Record and Main. They went around the east side of the building and in the back entrance. Think someone in the SN probably needs to stick their head out the window and look down to observe that movement.

[Walt Cakebread]

It is not impossible Jerry. My read of their testimonies indicates that they stayed close to the entrance on the west side. Truly was initially on the east side near the mailboxes. Truly mentioned them leaving with  Givens, who went to another location near Record and Main. They went around the east side of the building and in the back entrance. Think someone in the SN probably needs to stick their head out the window and look down to observe that movement.

Think someone in the SN probably needs to stick their head out the window and look down to observe that movement.

No witness reported seeing anybody hanging precariously out of a window ........And even if Lee had been there dressed in light colored khaki clothes and hung out of that window how would he have known where Jarman and Norman were going and why would he have cared ??

[John Iacoletti]

We will never know the exact time they reentered the TSBD but the important fact was that it was at a time that was close to the scheduled time for the motorcade to pass. Well after Arnold Rowland saw a man with a rifle in the SW window of the 6th floor. Certainly it is interesting that Oswald should single out those two in particular during interrogation. From memory one of those present claimed Oswald said they "passed through" the domino room. A perculiar expression to use for a room with only one entrance. Perhaps it was "passed by" instead.

Fritz and Kelley reported that Oswald said he had lunch with them.  Anyone who claims to know what Oswald said about Norman and Jarman is fabricating.

[John Iacoletti]

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below? And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

It's possible.  It's also possible that he saw them together when they were all on the first floor around 11:50-noon.  It's also possible that that he knew Norman and Jarman usually ate lunch together in the domino room (even though they didn't that day) and he just threw their names out with some generic statement about seeing them together.

We'll never know.