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Author Topic: Lack Of Damage To CE-399  (Read 90750 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2019, 10:28:45 PM »
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JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2019, 10:28:45 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #201 on: February 15, 2019, 10:40:19 PM »
I have in my possession a 6.5mm carcano bullet that I fired into a water trap.... It looks nearly identical to CE 399...  My bullet is of Italian manufacture so the jacket is white colored metal....

Lets see you post an image of that 'nearly identical to CE 399' water bullet

BTW, where there any rib bones involved that watery test?

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #202 on: February 15, 2019, 11:41:23 PM »
BTW, where there any rib bones involved that watery test?

No, that was the point. So for a FMJ bullet, it is your contention:

Striking
C7/rib/wrist=pristine (intact with no DNA)
skull=disintegrated (explosive with DNA splattered all over)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 11:45:29 PM by Jack Trojan »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #202 on: February 15, 2019, 11:41:23 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #203 on: February 15, 2019, 11:43:39 PM »
Lets see you post an image of that 'nearly identical to CE 399' water bullet

BTW, where there any rib bones involved that watery test?

BTW, where there any rib bones involved that watery test?

No bones involved..... But I did recover one bullet that stuck the side of the water trap .... It struck at a very shallow angle  and it was badly bent and flattened....

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2019, 05:27:52 AM »
How is this a "well established principle of law"?

If each piece of evidence individually doesn't meet a reasonable doubt standard, then how could they possibly meet it when combined?

BINGO !

Quote
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4272#relPageId=23&tab=page


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4272#relPageId=26&tab=page

........

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0191b.htm


https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0193a.htm

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0195b.htm

Is the obvious and practical solution to the "lawyering" resulting in deliberate deception and obfuscation,
to  /disbar/imprison/(perhaps) execute the offending attorneys deliberately undermining our National Security these untolled years?
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0060a.htm


« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 06:38:58 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2019, 05:27:52 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #205 on: February 16, 2019, 06:02:36 AM »
BINGO !

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0191b.htm



Mr. SPECTER - Dr. Finck, have you had an opportunity to examine Commission's Exhibit 399?
Colonel FINCK - For the first time this afternoon, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - And based upon your examination of that bullet, do you have an opinion as to whether in its current condition it could have passed through President Kennedy at point C-D in 385 and then inflicted the wound in the back and chest of Governor Connally?
Colonel FINCK - Yes; I do. This is a bullet showing marks indicating the bullet was fired. The second point is that there was practically no loss of this bullet. It kept its original caliber and dimensions. There was no evidence that any major portion of the jacket was lost, and I consider this as one bullet which possibly could have gone through the wounds you described.
Mr. SPECTER - And could that bullet possibly have gone through President Kennedy in 388?
Colonel FINCK - Through President Kennedy's head? 388?
Mr. SPECTER - And remained intact in the way you see it now?
Colonel FINCK - Definitely not.
Mr. SPECTER - And could it have been the bullet which inflicted the wound on Governor Connally's right wrist?
Colonel FINCK - No; for the reason that there are too many fragments described in that wrist.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/finck.htm

Demonstrating that Finck was wrong:

From the WC testimony of Dr Gregory:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory1.htm

ARLEN SPECTER ? ?Will you describe, as specifically as you can, what those metallic fragments are by way of size and shape, sir??

DR. CHARLES GREGORY ? ?I would identify these fragments as varying from five-tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two millimeters in diameter. And each fragment is no more than a half millimeter in thickness. They would represent, in lay terms, flakes?flakes of metal.?
?.
DR. CHARLES GREGORY ? ?A fragment of metal, again microscopic, measuring about five-tenths of a millimeter by two millimeters, lies just beneath the skin, about a half-inch on the medial aspect of the thigh.?

ARLEN SPECTER ? ?What is your best estimate of the weight of that metallic fragment??

DR. GREGORY ? ?This again would be in micrograms, postage stamp weight thereabouts. Not much more than that.?

_________________________________-

Dr Gregory removed four fragments from the wrist. He left one tiny fragment in the wrist. It was about the size of the smallest fragment that he removed.

CE-399 weighed 158.6 grains. That?s almost 3 grains less than a WCC bullet weighed by Robert Frazier. One grain is equivalent to 64.8 milligrams. The density of lead is about 11.35 g/cc. In total there were 6 fragments; 4 removed, 2 left in Connally. If we were to say that all six fragments each had the dimensions of the largest dimensions given by Gregory ? that being 0.5mm x 2mm ? the total mass of the fragments still won?t add up to 3 grains.

After converting mm to cm:

.05 x 0.7854 x (0.2^2) = 0.0015708cc

0.0015708cc x 6 = 0.0094248

0.0094248cc x 11.35g/cc = 0.10697148 grams

0.10697148 grams is 107 milligrams
??????????????-

Three grains is equivalent to 194.4 milligrams. As you can see, there?s plenty of room left over. And that?s using dimensions for the fragments that are exaggerated for effect. Three of the fragments removed are considerably smaller than the largest one.

Here are the fragments removed from Connally:




=========================================
 
Could CE-399 have inflicted the non fatal damage received by JFK and Connally? Yes. Yes it could.

From the HSCA testimony of Larry SPersonivan:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscastur.htm

Mr. DEVINE - I would ask you to look at that particular exhibit[CE-399] that is in your hand at the moment and look at the configuration, any deformities that may appear thereon. Mr. SPersonivan, we had before this committee a number of experts in many fields. We had one photographic analyst. We have had forensic pathologists. We had experts in many fields and we asked their opinion about a number of things and you obviously are an expert in the field of ballistics. Based on what you know about the assassination of President Kennedy, the fact that a bullet entered the back of President Kennedy and emerged and conceivably then entered the body of Governor Connally and emerged and lodged itself some place going through the wrist, and perhaps the thigh, and perhaps that being the bullet that ended up on the stretcher in Parkland, in your opinion, as an expert, could the bullet that you hold in your hand now have passed through two bodies and touched some bone tissue and still emerged in that condition that some described as nearly pristine?
Mr. SPersonIVAN - Yes, sir, it could have.
The amount of soft tissue that it went through before it struck bone, the amount of bone that it struck, which wasn't extensive, at least before the wrist, the small amount of deformation indicating that it did not go through a great deal of bone at high velocity, which would have deformed it, caused it to have high drag, and so forth. This bullet is quite capable of having gone through that much tissue; yes. It is slightly deformed which, through my calculations, indicate it must have been deformed on bone since it could not have deformed in soft tissue.
Mr. DEVINE - That is your best judgment as an expert in the field of ballistics; is that correct?
Mr. SPersonIVAN - Yes, sir, it could have inflicted that damage.





« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 06:06:14 AM by Tim Nickerson »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #206 on: February 16, 2019, 06:16:36 AM »
BINGO !


Humes: The reason I believe it most unlikely that this missile could have inflicted either of these wounds is that this missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be in tact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of these locations.

Humes' only objection seems to have been the same as Finck's. With Boswell concurring with Humes, that would make all three of them objecting to CE-399 for the same reason.

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #207 on: February 16, 2019, 07:27:29 AM »
Humes: The reason I believe it most unlikely that this missile could have inflicted either of these wounds is that this missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be in tact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of these locations.

Humes' only objection seems to have been the same as Finck's. With Boswell concurring with Humes, that would make all three of them objecting to CE-399 for the same reason.

Tim, my objection is in reaction to the plain truth deficit on page 95 of the WR and the history of the ethics and weak commitment to truth and to the law of too many attorneys recent US presidents have sought the services of, because.....

Quote
Charles Colson - Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/watergate/charles.html
Known within the Nixon administration as the "evil genius," special counsel Charles W. Colson served seven months in prison in 1974 after pleading guilty to ...

John Dean - Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/watergate/johndean.html
Former White House counsel John W. Dean III was charged with obstruction of justice and spent four months in prison for his role in the Watergate cover-up.

John Mitchell - Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/watergate/Johnmitchell.html
Nixon's former law partner served as attorney general before resigning in 1972 to head the Committee for the Re-election of the President. He stood trial in 1974 ...

Tim, it is not your fault you happen to be of a country immediately north of this more thuggish country.

Quote
BINGO !

.......
Is the obvious and practical solution to the "lawyering" resulting in deliberate deception and obfuscation,
to  /disbar/imprison/(perhaps) execute the offending attorneys deliberately undermining our National Security these untolled years?
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0060a.htm


White House releases ethics waivers granted to 14 staffers - CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/.../white-house-releases-ethics-waivers-granted-to-14-staffer...
Jun 5, 2017 - The waivers have been granted to four ex-lobbyists and numerous ... by White House counsel Don McGahn and Stefan Passantino, the chief ...
Top Ethics Officer Challenges Trump Over Secret Waivers for Ex ...
https://www.nytimes.com/.../top-ethics-officer-challenges-trump-over-secret-waivers-for...
May 1, 2017 - But Mr. Trump has chosen to keep the waivers secret. ... The 20 Best TV Dramas Since 'The Sopranos' ... A letter sent in late February by Stefan C. Passantino, the top White House ethics lawyer, argued that Mr. Shaub does ...
White House aides get waivers on ethics; Bannon's retroactive
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2017/.../white-house-aides-get-waivers-on-ethic...
Jun 2, 2017 - White House aides get waivers on ethics; Bannon's retroactive ... counsel Don McGahn and Stefan Passantino, the counsel's chief ethics officer. ... 20, according to a complaint by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in ...
Trump exempts senior staff from ethics rules | TheHill
https://thehill.com/.../335878-white-house-releases-waivers-to-administrations-ethics-p...
By Megan Wilson - 05/31/17 11:20 PM EDT 626. 5,902 ... The White House on Wednesday evening released its list of waivers to the Trump ... Don McGahn and the leader of the White House ethics office, Stefan Passantino, vetted the waivers.
Quote
Bush Pardons 6 in Iran Affair, Aborting a Weinberger Trial; Prosecutor ...
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/1224.html
December 25, 1992
Read the full text of The Times article or other headlines from the day. ... after the President left for Camp David, where he will spend the Christmas holiday. .... Mr. Bush consulted with Attorney General William P. Barr and Brent Scowcroft, the ..
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:32:39 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #207 on: February 16, 2019, 07:27:29 AM »