Lack Of Damage To CE-399

[Walt Cakebread]

Soft wooden window sash? LOL! Was it as soft as the cotton wadding that they fired bullets into at the Edgewood Arsenal?

I found a good pic of the Walker bullet (CE 573) that had been posted on Mc Adams WS ......The Walker bullet had not stuck anything as dense as Connally's wrist and yet it is badly mangled.

[Tim Nickerson]

I found a good pic of the Walker bullet (CE 573) that had been posted on Mc Adams WS ......The Walker bullet had not stuck anything as dense as Connally's wrist and yet it is badly mangled.

What velocity was the Walker bullet traveling at when it struck the "soft wooden window sash"?  What velocity was CE-399 traveling at when it struck Connally's wrist?

[Walt Cakebread]

What velocity was the Walker bullet traveling at when it struck the "soft wooden window sash"?  What velocity was CE-399 traveling at when it struck Connally's wrist?

I don't believe that CE 399 stuck Connally's wrist......there were several bullet fragments recovered from his wrist and a fairly large fragment embedded in his thigh....

Where the hell did those fragments come from??    Certainly not the 160 grain CE 399.......

a grain is the smallest unit of weight in our system....  It is the weight of a single grain of wheat.....  or 1/2 of a cheerio 

[Tim Nickerson]

I don't believe that CE 399 stuck Connally's wrist......there were several bullet fragments recovered from his wrist and a fairly large fragment embedded in his thigh....

Where the hell did those fragments come from??    Certainly not the 160 grain CE 399.......

Why not? What specifically precludes those fragments from having come from CE-399?

[Andrew Mason]

Thanks for posting this.  Where did you find these?

This confirms that the visors were struck by blood, tissue or bone fragments.  It also indicates that the right visor was struck on both sides, which suggests that material bounced off the windshield or frame and hit the front side of the right visor. Both visors were flipped up at the time of the shots and not as showing in the sketch. 

[Walt Cakebread]

Why not? What specifically precludes those fragments from having come from CE-399?

The basic facts are.... the nominal weight of the bullet is 160 grains.... but due to  manufacturing tolerance it could have weighed 159.5

CE399 obviously lost some weight in the barrel of the rifle..... which would put it's weight at approximately 159.6 at the muzzle.....CE 399 weighed 158.6

Which leaves only one (1)  grain for the fragments.....  and the fragment in Connally's leg was probably heavier than 1 grain....

[Andrew Mason]

Why not? What specifically precludes those fragments from having come from CE-399?

Nothing "precludes" them.   The lead that was impacted into the femur could have been made by the butt end of CE399.   But the characteristics of the wrist wound - particularly the damage to the radius and the spray of metal flakes into the arm itself - suggests that it was struck by something other than CE399.   The damage to the radius, if made by a slower moving CE399 would have to be made by the hard nose of the bullet.  SPersonivan's figures for speed and yield pressure of the MC 6.5 mm ammunition was based on the nose striking bone, not the softer butt end.  I expect that the yield pressure of the butt end was substantially less so that if the butt end had struck the radius with enough force to break the very hard radius, there would have been more damage to the bullet.

[Walt Cakebread]

Nothing "precludes" them.   The lead that was impacted into the femur could have been made by the butt end of CE399.   But the characteristics of the wrist wound - particularly the damage to the radius and the spray of metal flakes into the arm itself - suggests that it was struck by something other than CE399.   The damage to the radius, if made by a slower moving CE399 would have to be made by the hard nose of the bullet.  SPersonivan's figures for speed and yield pressure of the MC 6.5 mm ammunition was based on the nose striking bone, not the softer butt end.  I expect that the yield pressure of the butt end was substantially less so that if the butt end had struck the radius with enough force to break the very hard radius, there would have been more damage to the bullet.

SPersonivan's figures for speed and yield pressure of the MC 6.5 mm ammunition was based on the nose striking bone, not the softer butt end.

If the blunt butt end of the bullet had hit Connally wrist....it would have tore his hand off.....