How'd He Do That?

[Steve Logan]

If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment?

In a nut shell.....  Hoover did know ahead of time....( He was sanctioning the murder)    He panicked when Lee wasn't shot in the TSBD.......  So he notified his SAIC  Gorgon Shanklin immediately upon Lee Oswald arrest in the Theater.....  The problem he created in his panic was the failure to allow the DPD to identify the man prior to notifying Shankiln....

And Shanklin should have told Hosty to keep his mouth shut about the FBI having a recording of Lee Oswald threatening to shoot JFK.....Although Hosty didn't spell it out for Jack Revill when he and Revill met in the DPD, he DID tell Revill that the FBI had information that Oswald was capable of assassinating the President....

I'm convinced that the "information" Hosty was referring to was the tape recording of Lee yelling at the Cuban ambassador...." Somebody should shoot that SOB Kennedy"  ( Lee was desperate to get a Visa and blurted out that hollow threat ) Hoover had intended to introduce that into the evidence stream after Lee's bulllet riddle body had been carried from the TSBD.... hadn't intended to put that into the evidence stream until  later when he could claim that they had just learned that Oswald had threaten the President in October when he was in Mexico City.  ( And in doing so Hoover avoided the responsibility for allowing Oswald to be at large in Dallas)

Hosty exacerbated the situation when he told Captain Fritz to ask Oswald about Mexico City ( which was a veiled reference to Oswald's outburst at the Cuban Embassy)   Lee Knew exactly what Hosty was referring to and he lost his kool, and exploded at Hosty....

There's at least 15 of Wally's Meadow Muffins in this load of crap here . Great stuff.

[Walt Cakebread]

Excellent post Richard, yes, there's no mystery here. Note that most of the mentioned times are estimates.


At about 2:50 pm 11/22/63 in the basement of the DPD  FBI agent James Hosty told a Dallas P.D. Detective named Jack Revill, that a communist named Lee Oswald was the man who had shot President Kennedy about a little over two hours earlier. Hosty also told Revill that the FBI knew that Oswald was in Dallas and they knew that he was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy.  Revill reported this information immediately to his superior Captain Gannaway, and was ordered to write a memo to Captain Ganaway. Revill's exact words were...  "Agent Hosty further stated that the Federal Bureau Of Investigation was aware of the subject ( LHO) and they had information that this subject (LHO) was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy"

Lee Oswald had been dragged from the Texas Theater about 1: 50 or an hour before Hosty met Revill in the basement of the Police Station. The name Oswald had not been broadcast over the radio because Lee Oswald had not been identified until after he was being questioned in the Police Station at about 2:15 pm. 

At about 2:30 pm J.Edgar Hoover had called the Dallas SAIC Gordon Shanklin and ordered Shanklin to send FBI agent Hosty over to the DPD to be present during the interrogation of Oswald. Shanklin called DPD Capt Will Fritz and informed Fritz that they were aware of Oswald's presence in Dallas and one of his agents, James Hosty, had been "working with these people" and he wanted that agent to be present during the interrogation of Oswald.

Hosty encountered Detective Revill about 15 minutes later in the basement parking garage of the Police Station., and told Revill that Oswald was the assassin and they HAD INFORMATION  the he was capable of assassinating the President.

Those who have seriously studied the case know that there was some sort of tape recording in the hands of the FBI on 11/22/63 ....That tape allegedly was studied to determine if the voice recorded on that tape was the voice of Lee Harvey Oswald. There is a great deal of confusion and controversy about that tape.. .

Could it be that Hoover had a recording of Lee Oswald at the Cuban Embassy loudly threatening to shoot JFK?   

But first things first....The question that is the title of this thread.....

How did J.Edgar Hoover know the identity of the man who was dragged from the Texas Theater ??   Oswald's name wasn't known until about 2:15 and the police weren't certain that the man's true name was Lee Oswald. ....   But J.Edgar Hoover knew.... How'd he know that?   

There's no mystery here

Thank You, Mr Agee..... You're right.....  The title asks the question ....   And the text provides the answer....  so you're right.... There's no mystery here.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, that's an excellent question. I have no idea what the answer is. Another question that might follow could be: If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment? I would think that just the opposite would be proper procedure.

If Hoover knew ahead of time that LHO was an assassination threat, then why was the motorcade route changed to go directly by his place of employment?

There were three of Hoover's agents in the Texas Theater at the time Lee Oswald was arrested ....  What were they doing there?    How long had they been there?

Hoover knew the identity of the man before the Dallas Police had reached DPD headquarters with Lee Oswald in handcuffs.... 

It doesn't take a genius to see that Hoover was the mastermind who set Lee Oswald up ......

This is NOT to say that Hoover was a conspirator who plotted to murder JFK...  But he certainly played a key role.

[Richard Smith]

The FBI agents in Dallas found that out around 2PM and "immediately" called FBI HQ with that information.


Then explain why the DPD didn't know Lee's identity until about 2:30.....And during the 3:00pm interrogation Fritz asked Lee If his name was OH Lee.....

Another false premise.  Bill Shelley confirmed his identity the moment the DPD brought him in a couple minutes after two.

Mr. BROWN. Yes; Detective Senkel and I took these employees to the city hall, and in this group of employees I was talking to a Mr. Shelley, and got an affidavit from him, when the officers brought in Lee Harvey Oswald.
And there were several cameramen following these boys also in front of them, and they opened the door to where I was interviewing; Mr. Shelley looked up and he said, "Well, that is Oswald. He works for us. He is one of my boys."

[Walt Cakebread]

Another false premise.  Bill Shelley confirmed his identity the moment the DPD brought him in a couple minutes after two.

Mr. BROWN. Yes; Detective Senkel and I took these employees to the city hall, and in this group of employees I was talking to a Mr. Shelley, and got an affidavit from him, when the officers brought in Lee Harvey Oswald.
And there were several cameramen following these boys also in front of them, and they opened the door to where I was interviewing; Mr. Shelley looked up and he said, "Well, that is Oswald. He works for us. He is one of my boys."

I doubt that Shelly said anything to the cops....   But even if he did, Hoover knew the man's identity before the police arrived at DPD headquarters....

[Richard Smith]

Let's start with who they were and how you came to know this.

Jeeez!... It gets my goat when a lazy ass who hasn't done his homework, sits on his butt and says " Show Me"....  And then 95% of the time the lazy ass will argue about it, even after they've been taken by the hand like little kid.

FBI Agent James Hosty told me.....And you too can confirm that FBI agents Bob Barrett, Jim Swinford, and Bardwell Odum were there at the rear of the theater when Lee Oswald was slugged in the eye and piled on by four of Dallas's finest....  Just read page 63 of James Hosty's,... Assignment : Oswald ......

Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.  Keep in mind this is the same guy who questions how Hoover found out Oswald's identity while here noting the presence of FBI agents at the scene of his arrest.  It is truly bizarre.

[Richard Smith]

I doubt that Shelly said anything to the cops....   But even if he did, Hoover knew the man's identity before the police arrived at DPD headquarters....

Wrong.

Mr. Shelley looked up and he said, "Well, that is Oswald. He works for us. He is one of my boys."

[Walt Cakebread]

Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.  Keep in mind this is the same guy who questions how Hoover found out Oswald's identity while here noting the presence of FBI agents at the scene of his arrest.  It is truly bizarre.

Only in the dim recesses of the CTer mind would anyone question why FBI agents would be present in the manhunt for the person responsible for assassinating the president.

HUH??? Were Hoover's Extra Special Special Agents clairvoyant ??  How did they know that the man who had sneaked into the theater was "responsible for assassinating the president" There was a call that a man had entered the theater without buying a ticket....Now I ask you.....Is that a good reason for three FEDERAL agents to be there in the theater...