How long does it take to alter hundreds of frames of film?

[John Iacoletti]

Remember, the eyewitnesses - Brennan, Markham, Brewer, Postal et al. - lied. All just flat out made up their stories.

And the physical evidence is not believable. The fingerprints are not believable, handwriting experts are wrong, the photographic experts are wrong, the forensic experts are wrong, the ballistics experts are wrong.

And circumstantial evidence is meaningless. Lots of men leave their wedding rings behind. And nearly all of their money. Men who work in the building where people saw a gunman fire? Men who have expressed deep hatred of the US? Men with radical views? Men who left the building three minutes after the shooting? Men who....well, never mind we're not supposed to consider other evidence; we just look at each piece individually.

But remember: they're here to discuss the evidence with you. Honest.

And he's not a conspiracy believer. You're just making unfair assumptions.

Now that you've gotten that gigantic strawman off your chest, do you feel better?

[Jack Trojan]

Questions:

Give me the name of just one ballistic expert who agrees with this?

Name me just one ballistic expert who disagrees with this?

If all of the ballistic experts in the United States are under control of this massive secret conspiracy, give me the name of one outside the United States.

WTF are you talking about?

If you can?t give me a such a reference, have you fired at skulls fired with animal brains or some jelly to confirm that FMJ bullets do not cause skulls to ?explode?? Or is this just an armchair conclusion you have drawn? [/b]

Just use some common sense and logic, which you are struggling with to refute me.

Ballistic experts, who have done real world experiments with bone, skulls, ballistic gel, etc. all conclude that FMJ bullets can and do cause explosive head wounds.

Blow-outs yes, explosions no.

I suspect you won?t answer my questions, but if you did give an honest answer, I think it would be something like this:

yadayadayada

And by the way, I don?t see any ?light? or ?flash? in any of the Zapruder frames. Just the sunlight reflecting off of bloody tissue.

Why wasn't the sunlight reflecting off of ANYTHING else on JFK? Sorry, this was NOT sunlight.

Here?s a clue. If you see a bright point of light in just one frame, much brighter than any you see in the other frames, that might be some sort of explosion. If you see it in multiple frames, it isn?t multiple explosive bullets flashing in different frames. It?s the reflection of sunlight off of bloody tissues.

If you say so. What ballistic expert agrees with you? Waiting...

And here?s another clue. If a head is struck by an explosive bullet, you don?t see a flash. Because the explosion takes place inside the skull. You can?t see it. Unless the ?bullet? is a bazooka shell.

Or the frangible bullet blows out a hole in the side of JFK's head, which couldn't possibly be an exit wound if the shot came from the TSBD. Otherwise show the trajectory. Waiting...

[Joe Elliott]

Name me just one ballistic expert who disagrees with this?

If you say so. What ballistic expert agrees with you? Waiting...

Well, there is no need to keep you waiting long. Larry SPersonivan. Luke Haag. Michael Haag. Robert Frazier.

If you say ?They are all lying?, can you name a ballistic expert who is not? Do you really want to admit to being a Large-Secret-Conspiracy believer by stating that all the ballistic experts in the world are in on it?


Question:

Now, what real world ballistic expert thinks the Zapruder film shows evidence of an explosive bullet? Can you name one or are you going to keep us waiting? Not a self-described ballistic expert but one who is employed to do real world testing with targets consisting of bone, ballistic gel and other appropriate materials.

Why wasn't the sunlight reflecting off of ANYTHING else on JFK? Sorry, this was NOT sunlight.

Frames 314, 315, 316 and 317 all show a small bright source of light on the bloody tissues.

Question:

Do you believe that some sort of Continuously-Exploding-Bullet was used? Which is why we can see it ?exploding? in frames 315, 315, 316 and 317?

Or the frangible bullet blows out a hole in the side of JFK's head, which couldn't possibly be an exit wound if the shot came from the TSBD. Otherwise show the trajectory. Waiting...

With JFK?s head turned to the left, yes, it could be an exit wound on the right side of the head. A straight line from the sniper?s nest would hit the center of the back of the head and exit the side of the head, closer to the front. It would not exit the face.

Also, the wound on the right side of the head is both an exit wound and an explosive wound. Initially, there was a small exit wound. Within 5 to 10 milliseconds, there was a large explosive wound that blew out several square inches of skull and expelled blood and brain tissues. This is common with head wounds caused by rifle bullets, even FMJ rifle bullets.

[Jack Trojan]

Well, there is no need to keep you waiting long. Larry SPersonivan. Luke Haag. Michael Haag. Robert Frazier.

If you say ?They are all lying?, can you name a ballistic expert who is not? Do you really want to admit to being a Large-Secret-Conspiracy believer by stating that all the ballistic experts in the world are in on it?

Sorry, I just don't know what you are getting at.

Question:

Now, what real world ballistic expert thinks the Zapruder film shows evidence of an explosive bullet? Can you name one or are you going to keep us waiting? Not a self-described ballistic expert but one who is employed to do real world testing with targets consisting of bone, ballistic gel and other appropriate materials.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a ballistic expert that claims this was NOT an explosion. Make sure to quote them and not just their names.

Frames 314, 315, 316 and 317 all show a small bright source of light on the bloody tissues.

By bloody tissues, you mean brains because that is what we are talking about. You actually think that what you are seeing is sunlight on brain tissue?

Question:

Do you believe that some sort of Continuously-Exploding-Bullet was used? Which is why we can see it ?exploding? in frames 315, 315, 316 and 317?

Ans: It's because you don't understand anything about explosions. A fireball is a plasma ball and like any fireball it lasts over several frames.

With JFK?s head turned to the left, yes, it could be an exit wound on the right side of the head. A straight line from the sniper?s nest would hit the center of the back of the head and exit the side of the head, closer to the front. It would not exit the face.

Do my laser experiment and say that. I dare you.

Also, the wound on the right side of the head is both an exit wound and an explosive wound. Initially, there was a small exit wound. Within 5 to 10 milliseconds, there was a large explosive wound that blew out several square inches of skull and expelled blood and brain tissues. This is common with head wounds caused by rifle bullets, even FMJ rifle bullets.

Sure, FMJ bullets can blow out skull fragments (tho not usually tangential to the trajectory) but they NEVER disintegrate and scatter fragments and they don't blow out most of your brain unless they explode. Face it, a FMJ bullet would not have done the damage we see here. This MUST have been a frangible bullet.  Just ask the magic bullet.

[Bill Chapman]

Sorry, I just don't know what you are getting at.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a ballistic expert that claims this was NOT an explosion. Make sure to quote them and not just their names.

By bloody tissues, you mean brains because that is what we are talking about. You actually think that what you are seeing is sunlight on brain tissue?

Ans: It's because you don't understand anything about explosions. A fireball is a plasma ball and like any fireball it lasts over several frames.

Do my laser experiment and say that. I dare you.

Sure, FMJ bullets can blow out skull fragments (tho not usually tangential to the trajectory) but they NEVER disintegrate and scatter fragments and they don't blow out most of your brain unless they explode. Face it, a FMJ bullet would not have done the damage we see here. This MUST have been a frangible bullet.  Just ask the magic bullet.

Seems the missile didn't actually explode.

The Head Shot
Citation Ken Rahn

[EXCERPTS]

(...)

    High-velocity missile wounds of the head are especially destructive because of formation of a temporary cavity within the cranial cavity. the brain is enclosed by the skull, a closed rigid structure that can relieve pressure only by "bursting."

     Thus, high-velocity missile wounds of the head tend to produce bursting injuries. That these bursting injuries are the result of temporary cavity formation can be demonstrated by shooting through empty skulls. A high-velocity bullet fired through an empty skull produces small entrance and exit holes with no fractures. The same missile fired through a skull containing brain causes extensive fracturing and bursting injuries.

(...)

[Joe Elliott]

Sorry, I just don't know what you are getting at.

Of course you do.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a ballistic expert that claims this was NOT an explosion. Make sure to quote them and not just their names.

Robert Frazier, Larry SPersonivan, Luke Haag and Michael Haag all support the theory that JFK was shot by non-explosive bullets, made by the Western Cartridge Company. Larry SPersonivan wrote a book about the ballistic science of the JFK assassination, ?The JFK Myths?.

Can I dig up a quote that they stated the Western Cartridge Company bullets (WCC/MC) were not explosive bullets? I don?t think so. Nor can I dig up a quote saying the bullets were not made mostly from arsenic (to act as a poison?), or not made of gold, or not made of silver (A wolf? Maybe, but not a werewolf). But they all support the notion that these bullets were ordinary WCC/MC bullets which were not explosive bullets.

You are being disingenuous to imply that, perhaps, one or more of these experts do support the notion of an explosive bullet causing the wounds to JFK.

By bloody tissues, you mean brains because that is what we are talking about. You actually think that what you are seeing is sunlight on brain tissue?

I am no medical expert but it looks like I am seeing sunlight reflecting off of the interior of the scalp. I would guess it is covered in blood and the sunlight if reflecting off of the blood.

Ans: It's because you don't understand anything about explosions. A fireball is a plasma ball and like any fireball it lasts over several frames.

Chemical explosions are not powerful enough to produce a plasma. Nuclear explosions can but not chemical explosions. Lightning can produce plasma, but it requires an enormous cloud and needs to generate temperatures of 28,000 Kelvin to do so. No chemical explosion is powerful enough to do this.

And even the plasma produced by a lightning strike typically only lasts 10 to 100 milliseconds, covering perhaps 3 Zapruder frames at most. And I can?t believe that a small explosive bullet could produce plasma at all, let alone for as long as the plasma produced by a powerful lightning strike.


My one and only question is:

Can you site a respectable source that says an explosive bullet, fired from a rifle, produces plasma? [

[Joe Elliott]

Seems the missile didn't actually explode.

The Head Shot
Citation Ken Rahn

[EXCERPTS]

(...)

    High-velocity missile wounds of the head are especially destructive because of formation of a temporary cavity within the cranial cavity. the brain is enclosed by the skull, a closed rigid structure that can relieve pressure only by "bursting."

     Thus, high-velocity missile wounds of the head tend to produce bursting injuries. That these bursting injuries are the result of temporary cavity formation can be demonstrated by shooting through empty skulls. A high-velocity bullet fired through an empty skull produces small entrance and exit holes with no fractures. The same missile fired through a skull containing brain causes extensive fracturing and bursting injuries.

(...)

Yes. This is correct. The WCC/MC, FMJ bullet does not explode. It only broke into 3 major fragments. But it does cause a bursting wound (when it travels through a skull at near muzzle velocity). Larry SPersonivan referred to this as an ?explosive wound?. The head basically explodes, expelling pieces of bone, brain tissue and blood away from the head. But the bullet itself never explodes.

[Jack Trojan]

Of course you do.

No, I don't.

Robert Frazier, Larry SPersonivan, Luke Haag and Michael Haag all support the theory that JFK was shot by non-explosive bullets, made by the Western Cartridge Company. Larry SPersonivan wrote a book about the ballistic science of the JFK assassination, ?The JFK Myths?.

Can I dig up a quote that they stated the Western Cartridge Company bullets (WCC/MC) were not explosive bullets? I don?t think so. Nor can I dig up a quote saying the bullets were not made mostly from arsenic (to act as a poison?), or not made of gold, or not made of silver (A wolf? Maybe, but not a werewolf). But they all support the notion that these bullets were ordinary WCC/MC bullets which were not explosive bullets.

If you are going to cite them then quote their arguments that support your claims and keep in mind that their opinions aren't facts. You don't expect me to read their books, do you?

You are being disingenuous to imply that, perhaps, one or more of these experts do support the notion of an explosive bullet causing the wounds to JFK.

What I need is the opinion from an expert that knows what they are talking about. I'll know one when I see one. An expert needs to come forward and explain whether the copper powder in a frangible bullet emits light after exploding and whether the explosion lasts >1/8th of a second. Have any of your experts explored that? Then cite their arguments and I will gladly eat crow.

I am no medical expert but it looks like I am seeing sunlight reflecting off of the interior of the scalp. I would guess it is covered in blood and the sunlight if reflecting off of the blood.

The other comparable bright spot is the patch of sunlight reflecting off of Connally's forehead, which is very specific. If Connally had moved his head the lit spot would disappear. What we see with JFK was the lit spot move with him as he reacted to the shot. That indicates this was not sunlight and that brain matter would not show up that bright on film. So what else then?

Chemical explosions are not powerful enough to produce a plasma. Nuclear explosions can but not chemical explosions. Lightning can produce plasma, but it requires an enormous cloud and needs to generate temperatures of 28,000 Kelvin to do so. No chemical explosion is powerful enough to do this.

And even the plasma produced by a lightning strike typically only lasts 10 to 100 milliseconds, covering perhaps 3 Zapruder frames at most. And I can?t believe that a small explosive bullet could produce plasma at all, let alone for as long as the plasma produced by a powerful lightning strike.

I'm not an expert in chemical explosions, I merely ask the question, does the copper powder that explodes in a frangible bullet produce light and if so, for how long?

My one and only question is:

Can you site a respectable source that says an explosive bullet, fired from a rifle, produces plasma? [

The most popular gun in history that fires frangible bullets is called the "Fireball". Fire is plasma. Does igniting copper powder produce plasma? Looks like it to me. Let me know what your experts think.