How to frame Oswald?

[Martin Weidmann]

The frame up would require the following:

1) Frazier's sister has to move near Ruth Paine.  Frazier has to move in and obtain a job at the TSBD.  So two families.
2) Paine has to get Marina to live with her.  So Oswald's wife.
3) Marina has to agree to move in with Paine.
4) Paine has to become aware of the job opening at the TSBD.
5) Oswald has to agree to apply and take the job.  Add Truly.
6) Truly has to agree to hire Oswald and retain him until the assassination.
7) Oswald has to agree to remain on (his job history is not the most dependable) and show up on the day of the assassination.  Add Oswald.
JFK has to come to Dallas during the appropriate time frame.  Add JFK and members of his government.
9) Oswald has to order or an elaborate hoax has to be arranged to forge documents, pictures and force witnesses including his own wife and employees of Klein's to confirm that he ordered and received a specific rifle with a unique serial number.  Add Klein's and witnesses that confirm Oswald possessed a rifle.
10) the motorcade has to pass the TSBD.  That brings in the SS into the plot since they make that decision.
11)  Oswald has to be somehow convinced to make an unplanned trip to the location where his rifle is stored the night before the assassination.  He has to carry a large package the next morning or Frazier and his sister must lie about this.
12)  A multitude of evidence has to be planted at the TSBD unnoticed by anyone including the gun, bullet casings, bag.  Oswald's prints have to be found on many incriminating items.  So the DPD and FBI are involved.  Somehow the conspirators have to ensure Oswald is not in a location where someone can give him an alibi at the moment of the assassination. No easy task.  Add more people.
13) There are allegations that someone is turning the power off in the building for some unspecified purpose (didn't happen but some CTers claim it did).  So add another person.
14)  You would need someone to actually assassinate JFK if it wasn't Oswald.  So add at least one assassin who somehow gets away completely unnoticed.  So likely had assistance.  Add more people.
15)  Somehow the conspirators have to ensure that no one has a picture or film of the real assassin.  Add a team in DP.
16)  Any evidence such as bullets or bullet fragments that don't come from Oswald's rifle have to be recovered and replaced.  Add a team that has access to the body, any wounded person or other such evidence for the medical procedures etc.  Somehow coerce the medical folks to lie.  Add dozens more.
17) Add a team to kill Oswald after the assassination that involves recruiting a person willing to go to jail for the rest of their lives.  Coordinate the murder of Oswald including getting access to do it.  Hope that he doesn't screw it up or talk after the fact.  Add dozens more to arrange Ruby's act and control what he says in custody for however long he lives.
18) Ensure everyone at the DPD, FBI or involved in any subsequent official investigation is on board with the plan.  Add folks to cover up for decades to the present day if paranoid CTers are to be believed including somehow controlling the media.

Grand total.  A cast of thousands from various walks of life including random citizens, family members, state and federal law enforcement, doctors, politicians, a team with a multitude of assignments before, during and after the assassination etc.  The alternative is that Oswald put his gun in a bag, found a shooting location, and pulled the trigger.  As the evidence confirms.

As predicted in the OP

I would like to try another approach to find out if it was even possible to set up Oswald as the patsy for the Kennedy murder. For the time being, I am purposely leaving the Tippit murder out of it because that could have been an unrelated or a spur of the moment matter. Whenever you try to discuss the possibility of Oswald having been framed, the immediate response from the LNs is that a conspiracy to frame Oswald would have required the involvement of thousands of people and I don't really believe that's true. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying that Oswald was an innocent bystander. For him to be framed for this crime (if that's what happened) he would have needed to be involved at least to some extend in some scheme.

So, here we have Richard, with a bunch of flawed hyperbole strawman arguments which don't hold water and nothing of any substance to add to the topic of this thread.

Bye Richard... take your fancy story elsewhere.   

[Bill Chapman]

The framing IMO began on Sunday night on live TV when Dan Rather described the Zapruder film to the nation (but of course the nation never saw that film publicly until 1975). In it, he described how he fell forward when he was hit in the head, leaving out the back and to the left motion. I know any number of people are going to disagree with this "back and to the left" movement as signifying that it was caused by a frontal shot.

I have high-speed videos of men whose heads are in the same position as Kennedy's and they both take high-powered shots to the back of the head - neither of them go back and to the left like Kennedy did. But the point being, someone told Rather to keep it simple when he, as a reporter, "described" what he saw.

Oswald was already dead at this point when Rather went on TV, so it's very easy to manipulate the story and we have proof of that with the Katzenbach memo. No films or photos needed to be faked as it's much easier to manipulate the record by a bunch of lawyers, suppressing or not interviewing witnesses who go against the grain of the official story, showcasing those who do, interrupting witness testimony and injecting statements that kind of change the shape of the testimony, and so on.

Further, no body alteration and throwing his body into the cargo of AF1 and being picked up by a thrumming helicopter to be squirreled away and altered by mad doctors with scalpels at the ready was needed as well as all of the other nonsense. This was all created by "esteemed" authors to make a buck and to shovel their bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns to the many suckers out there.

We must also include Oswald's own statements - he said he was a patsy; he said the BYP were fake and in time he could prove it; he said he was out front during the P parade (corroborated by two people now); a co-worker testified that LHO asked him what the ruckus was about before the shooting. And it's very, very possible he was caught on camera standing in the front vestibule moments after the shooting.

And to Walt Cakebread - your silly story about Oswald being told he was going to take a potshot at Kennedy is an old one. I remember reading that way back in the early 70s.  It's a silly story. Oswald was no dummy and I think it'd be next to impossible to get anyone to go along with a ridiculous caper like that.

Ruth Payne got him the job there. Who had all of this additional paperwork on him afterward?

I invite you to go here:

http://www.pwc-sii.com/CourtDocs/Transcripts/Distaso-CA.htm

This is the closing argument by the district attorney during the Scott Peterson case. I know - WTF are you posting this for as it's got nothing to do with JFK. But take a while to read it. In it, I love the parts where this guy says over and over again, "It makes no sense. It's unreasonable."

Then apply this thinking to the JFK case. Is it reasonable, for example, to expect a guy to fire world-class shots at the president, dodge a bunch of boxes and hide his weapon and then be down on the 2nd floor calm and collected drinking  a soft drink when he's seen there 90 seconds afterward?  And so on and so forth.

I have high-speed videos of men whose heads are in the same position as Kennedy's and they both take high-powered shots to the back of the head - neither of them go back and to the left like Kennedy did. But the point being, someone told Rather to keep it simple when he, as a reporter, "described" what he saw.

Link to those films.
Name the 'someone' who told Rather what to say

[Walt Cakebread]

The framing IMO began on Sunday night on live TV when Dan Rather described the Zapruder film to the nation

Michael,

I agree that Oswald's death made a cover up easier but I seriously doubt that it would have been possible to frame him without some pre-assassination preparations to set him up. In this thread I would like to focus on the rifle purchase and I can't really see how a mere cover up could have arranged a paper trail for the rifle purchase that quickly. In other words, if Oswald was indeed framed there is more to it than just a cover up after the fact.

Fwiw....I'm convinced that Lee did order a carcano and the one sent to PO Box 2915 had the serial number C 2766.....   And it is possibly the same rifle that is now in the national archives....but not necessarily......   Even I could create a carcano with that serial number.  It would have been a piece- o- cake for an intelligence org, like the CIA or the FBI.   The point is.... The plotter's didn't need the carcano that was sent from Kleins.....They could have easily created a duplicate.

[Richard Smith]

As predicted in the OP

So, here we have Richard, with a bunch of flawed hyperbole strawman arguments which don't hold water and nothing of any substance to add to the topic of this thread.

Bye Richard... take your fancy story elsewhere.   

Martin running from the facts.  Shocking. I read here every single day that anyone who provided evidence against Oswald lied and/or might be part of the plot to frame him.  But then they run from the obvious implication of a large conspiracy due to the absurdity of it.  Very amusing that there is dim recognition that the implication of their theories having any validity would be absurd.  So contrarians like Martin always want to have it both ways even if inconsistent.   Everyone is suspect but they won't acknowledge the direct implication of their suspicion because it is laughable.  Imagine a Ruth Paine suburban Quaker housewife and master plotter behind the assassination!

[Jerry Freeman]

Martin running from the facts.  Shocking.

I would say that Agent Smith has a flair for dramatics....but he doesn't.

[Bill Chapman]

Frame-Up Tips for Dummies

1) Don't plant Oswald behind the motorcade and then claim the shots came from the front
2) See #1

[Zeon Mason]

My opinion currently is that if it is possible that Jack Dougherty took the West elevator down passing by Baker and Truly AND also Dorothy Garner, and the elevator not seen moving,  that is it therefore EQUALLY possible that 1 or 2 shooters from the 6th floor could have done likewise.

Since Jack Dougherty 's elevator trip and subsequent apparent conversation with Eddie Piper is NOT confirmed by either Piper NOR by Troy West, then its EQUALLY possible that Troy West and Piper did not see a shooter or shooters upon reaching 1st floor on  that same elevator.

The time of this descent by either Jack or the shooter(s) from 6th floor must have been only after Truly had looked up the shaft as late as 70 sec post shots, before he and Baker went up the staircase. Its possible the West elevator could have come down passing the 2nd floor landing in the 15 second interval of time Baker and Truly are engaged with Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom. However, the top of the elevator should have been visible when Truly/Baker leave lunchroom and cross past the shaft.


This leaves that the West elevator came down JUST AS Baker and Truly have ascended about half way up the 2nd floor staircase. The time therefore would be about 1 minute 50 sec post shots, when West elevator is passing by the 2nd floor landing, and it stops at about 2 min post shots on the 1st floor, as Baker and Truly go past the elevator shaft on the 3rd floor, thus not seeing or hearing elevator or cables moving, OR seeing top of elevator when they passed by the shaft on 2nd floor landing.

I

[Martin Weidmann]

Martin running from the facts.  Shocking. I read here every single day that anyone who provided evidence against Oswald lied and/or might be part of the plot to frame him.  But then they run from the obvious implication of a large conspiracy due to the absurdity of it.  Very amusing that there is dim recognition that the implication of their theories having any validity would be absurd.  So contrarians like Martin always want to have it both ways even if inconsistent.   Everyone is suspect but they won't acknowledge the direct implication of their suspicion because it is laughable.  Imagine a Ruth Paine suburban Quaker housewife and master plotter behind the assassination!

Martin running from the facts.

This could have some meaning if you only had a basic understanding of what a fact really is. Since you don't, there isn't much more to say.