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Author Topic: A straight line  (Read 163886 times)

Offline Alice Thorton

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #472 on: March 27, 2018, 09:37:47 PM »
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The case is not closed. Even Hoover said this.

J. Edgar Hoover? As in FBI Director? What did he have to say about it?

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #472 on: March 27, 2018, 09:37:47 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #473 on: March 27, 2018, 10:26:27 PM »
Are there free online PDF's of these books? I don't have the money to buy them.

You might try the public library.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #474 on: March 28, 2018, 04:09:38 AM »
That's a lot of Ifs.
You seem to miss the point. Only ONE of the "ifs" needs to be true to negate the SBT. They ALL have to be false in order for the SBT to be possible. And then you would still need convincing evidence that it actually occurred or maybe some convincing proof of a missed shot
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Quite a few of your 20+ witnesses are missing one of the three shots from their accounts. They do not account for the real first shot.
??They described what JFK did in response to the first shot. No uncertainty there. Why they would have to count the shots afterward?

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Not necessarily. If there was more time between shots one and two than between two and three then that just means that the first shot was earlier than is generally believed.
Since there were at least 5 seconds between JFK's reaction and the head shot, the last two were not "in rapid succession"as described by dozens of witnesses, if there was no shot in between. And in order to make the 1-2 spacing noticeably longer than 2-3 the first shot would have to be well before Zapruder started filming (the Max Holland conjecture). Good luck fitting that to any evidence.
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That one is easy. JBC was NOT sitting in the middle of his seat. The ITEK analysis has him as much as 8.6 inches inboard of Kennedy.
That puts Connally's right armpit in front of JFK's midline. Not enough. And that was the maximum range. He could have been 4 inches inboard of the president.
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I wasn't aware that the WC came to that conclusion. It's hard to see how they could have, since Kennedy can't be seen in Z223. Kennedy does not show a reaction until between Z225 and Z226.
JFK's hands are seen and they are in the position that many witnesses described him assuming in response to the first shot. They are in a very different position than in z193.



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Re: A straight line
« Reply #474 on: March 28, 2018, 04:09:38 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #475 on: March 28, 2018, 04:58:01 AM »
You seem to miss the point. Only ONE of the "ifs" needs to be true to negate the SBT. They ALL have to be false in order for the SBT to be possible. And then you would still need convincing evidence that it actually occurred or maybe some convincing proof of a missed shot.

They don't all have to be false in order for the  SBT to be possible. Nevertheless, they are all false. 

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??They described what JFK did in response to the first shot. No uncertainty there. Why they would have to count the shots afterward?

Was Kennedy hit in the head by the second shot? Yes or no.

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Since there were at least 5 seconds between JFK's reaction and the head shot, the last two were not "in rapid succession"as described by dozens of witnesses, if there was no shot in between. And in order to make the 1-2 spacing noticeably longer than 2-3 the first shot would have to be well before Zapruder started filming (the Max Holland conjecture). Good luck fitting that to any evidence.

If the spacing between the last two really was shorter than the first two then Holland's conjecture could be made to fit.

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That puts Connally's right armpit in front of JFK's midline. Not enough. And that was the maximum range. He could have been 4 inches inboard of the president.

8.6 inches inboard is more than enough.

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JFK's hands are seen and they are in the position that many witnesses described him assuming in response to the first shot. They are in a very different position than in z193.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=162&pos=106

JFK's hands cannot been seen in Z223.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #476 on: March 28, 2018, 03:23:39 PM »
Are there free online PDF's of these books? I don't have the money to buy them.

Alice, you can download a Kindle version of "Case Closed" from Amazon for $7.71.

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Closed-Harvey-Oswald-Assassination/dp/1400034620

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #476 on: March 28, 2018, 03:23:39 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #477 on: March 28, 2018, 04:43:18 PM »
Then how did you come to your conclusions?

 ;)

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #478 on: March 28, 2018, 05:54:02 PM »
They don't all have to be false in order for the  SBT to be possible. Nevertheless, they are all false.
So let's make this clear. You are saying that:

1.  The witnesses (40+) who recalled that the last two shots were in rapid succession, noticeably closer than the first two, were all wrong and what they really heard was 1...2.....3  AND

2.  The witnesses who heard 3 shots and said JFK reacted to the first shot, including Dave Powers, TE Moore, Linda Willis, Nellie Connally, Bobby Hargis, George Hickey, Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts, Harold Norman, Gayle Newman,  and Cecil Ault, did not see what they said they saw; AND

3. The witnesses who said that the first shot was after z186/z191 were wrong even though not a single piece of evidence conflicts with their recollections. These witnesses include Hughes, Betzner, Linda Willis, Phil Willis, Mary Woodward, TE Moore, and motorcade witnesses in the VP car, VP security car as well as witnesses along Elm: Jean Newman, Billy Clay, Georgia Hendrix, Sue Dickerson, Dorothy Garner, Karan Hicks, Gloria Calvary, Karen Westbrook.

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Was Kennedy hit in the head by the second shot? Yes or no.
No. The second shot nearly hit him in the head, according to George Hickey, but just lifted his hair on the right side.  One or two witnesses may have thought the second shot hit him in the head (eg. John Chism) but these witnesses were never cross-examined. 

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If the spacing between the last two really was shorter than the first two then Holland's conjecture could be made to fit.
But not in "rapid succession" (eg. SA Hickey 18H762), "quick succession" (SA McIntyre 18H747), "very close together" (Robert Jackson 2H159, Lee Bowers 6H287), "pretty close together" (Luke Mooney 3H282), "rather close together" (B R Williams 3H175), "one and one-half seconds" - "a much shorter time" (Sen. Yarborough 7H439), "real close" (Clyde Haygood, 6H298), "very quickly" (James Crawford, 6H172).

And these witnesses all said that the difference in spacing was quite noticeable.  Many said it was about 2:1.  Even if it was just 1.5:1 (7.5 seconds to 5 seconds) that puts the first shot before the QM finished the turn, with the VP car just entering the intersection and the VP security car behind that on Houston.  (How could the occupants of those cars be so wrong - in the same way?)

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8.6 inches inboard is more than enough.
The bullet was traveling from right to left at an angle of at least 9 degrees.  Over the 24 inches between JFK's throat and the plane of the back of the jump seat, the bullet would have travelled left an additional 3.8 inches. According to the HSCA the wound on JBC was 20 cm or 7.9 inches from his midline. If his midline was 8.6 inches left of JFK's midline, that puts his right armpit .7 inches left of JFK's midline.  It has to be another 3.1 inches farther left than that.  And that is assuming the maximum distance he could have been to the left of JFK, which is your best case scenario. ITEK actually said he was probably 6.4 inches left and could have been as little as 4.2 inches left.  That would make JBC too far right probably by 5.3 inches and possibly by as much as 7.5 inches.


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JFK's hands cannot been seen in Z223.
Right. z224.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 10:01:25 PM by Andrew Mason »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #479 on: March 28, 2018, 06:20:34 PM »
Alice, you can waste your money if you choose, but the twenty-six volumes are online for free at:

http://www.historymatters.com

and here

MARY FERRELL FOUNDATION
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Main_Page.html

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #479 on: March 28, 2018, 06:20:34 PM »