Thomas M. Atkins

[Charles Collins]

On page 371 of "Pictures of the Pain," author Richard B. Trask quotes Thomas M. Atkins:

"We came to the end of [Main Street] and made that right-hand turn, and were going directly at the [Texas School Book] Depository. Just as we turned, I remember looking at my watch, and it was 12:30, and just as I looked at my watch I heard an explosion.  ... And then immediately following there were two more quick explosions, and my stomach just went into a knot.

The attached animated GIF is from the Hughes Film at the approximate time that many believe the first shot was fired. I have slowed the animation down for demonstration purposes. It appears to me that Thomas Atkins (camera car #1, yellow convertible, right rear) raises his left arm to look at his watch just about the time that the helmet of the motorcycle cop (McLain) passes in between the camera and Atkins. If I am correct, this could be visual evidence that the first shot occurred at that time.

Please take a look at this and any other versions of the film or other films and photos and let me know your opinion about this possible evidence. Thank you very much.

[Sim Heninger]

Hey, Charles,

I'm not able at the moment to view better copies of the Hughes film, so I'll take your word for it that Atkins looks at his watch in the clip you've posted.

What I know about this segment is that it does cover the instant when the first shot shot was fired, at Z160 plus-or-minus.  McLain on his cycle has just passed out of the frame, and the walking cop (D.V.Harkness) is still in the frame, when the first shot happens.  So you are good on your timing there.

The Zapruder film actually shows the 1st camera car on Houston Street in a few frames, between the people lining the sidewalk.  At Z230, after the first two shots, the car with Atkins   has passed the alley between the Criminal Courts and Records buildings.  I think that works with your timing as well.  I'm pretty sure you have to have the absolute full Z frames to see the motorcade on Houston, since obviously Zapruder's focus was the limousine, but I know he filmed the cars moving slowly along DURING THE SHOTS.  If I remember right you can see the red sun visors and convertible top cover on the Mayor's Comet,  the greenhouse of the next car, which was a chevy sedan with the "pool" reporters, and the yellow first camera car...not sure what color the second camera car was.

To me, these little details are what assassination research is all about, and I think you might be the discoverer of the Atkins watch look.

Thanks for a cool thread,
Sim 

[Royell Storing]

Hey, Charles,

I'm not able at the moment to view better copies of the Hughes film, so I'll take your word for it that Atkins looks at his watch in the clip you've posted.

What I know about this segment is that it does cover the instant when the first shot shot was fired, at Z160 plus-or-minus.  McLain on his cycle has just passed out of the frame, and the walking cop (D.V.Harkness) is still in the frame, when the first shot happens.  So you are good on your timing there.

The Zapruder film actually shows the 1st camera car on Houston Street in a few frames, between the people lining the sidewalk.  At Z230, after the first two shots, the car with Atkins   has passed the alley between the Criminal Courts and Records buildings.  I think that works with your timing as well.  I'm pretty sure you have to have the absolute full Z frames to see the motorcade on Houston, since obviously Zapruder's focus was the limousine, but I know he filmed the cars moving slowly along DURING THE SHOTS.  If I remember right you can see the red sun visors and convertible top cover on the Mayor's Comet,  the greenhouse of the next car, which was a chevy sedan with the "pool" reporters, and the yellow first camera car...not sure what color the second camera car was.

To me, these little details are what assassination research is all about, and I think you might be the discoverer of the Atkins watch look.

Thanks for a cool thread,
Sim

     Your above description of what can be seen on the Current Zapruder Film that John Q. Public is permitted to eyeball = Exactly why Zapruder allegedly Not filming the JFK Limo turning onto Elm is a joke. Even Sitzman when being interviewed by Tink Thompson for his 1966 "Six Seconds In Dallas" reported being able to see the JFK Limo/Motorcade coming down Houston from their elevated perch viewing position. The weak excuse proffered for the Gap on the Zapruder Film being because Zapruder was unable to see the JFK Limo on Houston St is pure Hokum. Not only did Sitzman recount seeing the JFK Limo/Motorcade coming down Houston St with her naked eyes to Tink Thompson, Zapruder should have had an even better look at the JFK Limo/Motorcade due to the ZOOM SETTING he allegedly had his camera set on. Zapruder was viewing Houston St with what was close to a Telescope.   

[Charles Collins]

Hey, Charles,

I'm not able at the moment to view better copies of the Hughes film, so I'll take your word for it that Atkins looks at his watch in the clip you've posted.

What I know about this segment is that it does cover the instant when the first shot shot was fired, at Z160 plus-or-minus.  McLain on his cycle has just passed out of the frame, and the walking cop (D.V.Harkness) is still in the frame, when the first shot happens.  So you are good on your timing there.

The Zapruder film actually shows the 1st camera car on Houston Street in a few frames, between the people lining the sidewalk.  At Z230, after the first two shots, the car with Atkins   has passed the alley between the Criminal Courts and Records buildings.  I think that works with your timing as well.  I'm pretty sure you have to have the absolute full Z frames to see the motorcade on Houston, since obviously Zapruder's focus was the limousine, but I know he filmed the cars moving slowly along DURING THE SHOTS.  If I remember right you can see the red sun visors and convertible top cover on the Mayor's Comet,  the greenhouse of the next car, which was a chevy sedan with the "pool" reporters, and the yellow first camera car...not sure what color the second camera car was.

To me, these little details are what assassination research is all about, and I think you might be the discoverer of the Atkins watch look.

Thanks for a cool thread,
Sim

Thanks, I am hoping that my imagination hasn?t affected my perception of this such that I am seeing something that isn?t there. That does happen sometimes to some of us. I have looked at Robin Unger?s YouTube clip of this film which he posted to make a point regarding motorcycle cop Baker. And the Atkins watch arm movement is not as apparent to me. So hopefully someone will be able to view a better quality video clip of this and let us know what they see.

[James Hackerott]

Charles,
This stabilized version shows a little more detail, but I still wouldn't want to say he is checking his watch (he could be, but I can't tell). There is a slight 'interference' just as the motorcycle rider (McLain) leaves the frame to the left. There is a film splice just at this time when Atkins appears to jerk his head.

[Larry Trotter]

On page 371 of "Pictures of the Pain," author Richard B. Trask quotes Thomas M. Atkins:

"We came to the end of [Main Street] and made that right-hand turn, and were going directly at the [Texas School Book] Depository. Just as we turned, I remember looking at my watch, and it was 12:30, and just as I looked at my watch I heard an explosion.  ... And then immediately following there were two more quick explosions, and my stomach just went into a knot.

The attached animated GIF is from the Hughes Film at the approximate time that many believe the first shot was fired. I have slowed the animation down for demonstration purposes. It appears to me that Thomas Atkins (camera car #1, yellow convertible, right rear) raises his left arm to look at his watch just about the time that the helmet of the motorcycle cop (McLain) passes in between the camera and Atkins. If I am correct, this could be visual evidence that the first shot occurred at that time.

Please take a look at this and any other versions of the film or other films and photos and let me know your opinion about this possible evidence. Thank you very much.

The DPD Officer MarrionBakerImage positioning, as confirmed by testimony and reenactment, offers indicative evidence of the 12:30pm CST time. And, so does the as seen white or yellow '64(?) FourDoor MercurySedan, then indicated occupied by SSAs assigned to LBJ, turning onto Elm St from Houston St, added to the Altgens6 Photo showing the same MercurySedan, with the driver's side rear door partially open also visible on film, that has not quite completed the turn.

Curiously, the PersonImage occupants of the 2nd steel blue '64 ChevroletConvertible seem to be reacting/standing up as their car has just turned the corner from Main St to Houston St, that was at least partially occupied by DallasCountySheriffDeputies standing out front of the CountySheriff'sDepartment bldg for the Motorcade.

[Charles Collins]

Charles,
This stabilized version shows a little more detail, but I still wouldn't want to say he is checking his watch (he could be, but I can't tell). There is a slight 'interference' just as the motorcycle rider (McLain) leaves the frame to the left. There is a film splice just at this time when Atkins appears to jerk his head.

Thanks, that does look a lot more clear. I do see the head jerk to the left by Atkins. And it appears to me that his two companions in the rear of that vehicle also jerk their heads to the left at the same time. If so, that would be even better evidence that the first shot had just been fired. And that they were all reacting to the same sound.

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks, that does look a lot more clear. I do see the head jerk to the left by Atkins. And it appears to me that his two companions in the rear of that vehicle also jerk their heads to the left at the same time. If so, that would be even better evidence that the first shot had just been fired. And that they were all reacting to the same sound.

Good research, guys.

At least two of the three photographers sitting in the back of the white car look to the left at the same time, and maybe all three of them do.

-- MWT