Debunking process

[Thomas Halle]

A pretty good answer would be that...a theory is debunked when it is evident that its proponent is less concerned with pursuit of the truth, and more concerned with a "Special Pleading" style support of his pet theory. It is similarly debunked (or "falsified," though I REALLY dislike that particular definition of the word) when the evidence just doesn't support the given conclusion (upon which the theory or hypothesis is based) and/or it is clear that there are many problems with the evidence....and, in this case, the "problems" are legion!!!

You might also like to remember that there were letters from Mr. Hoover and Katzenbach urging that the American public be immediately "sold" on the idea of a lone, crazed assassin, which strongly smacks of a hidden (perhaps duplicitous) agenda of the feds.

[Thomas Graves]

There were letters from Mr. Hoover and Katzenbach urging that the American public be immediately "sold" on the idea of a lone, crazed assassin, which strongly smacks of a hidden (perhaps duplicitous) agenda of the feds.

Thomas,

Have you considered the possibility that they were simply reacting to the WW III Virus that was planted in Oswald's CIA file on October 2, 1963, by KGB triple-agent Ivan Obyedkov, KGB triple-agent Aleksey Kulak (aka Hoover's "protected"-from-CIA "Fedora"), KGB officer Oleg Brykin, mysterious former East German Guenter Schulz (Hoover's "Tumbleweed"), KGB officer Valery Kostikov, himself, and a (probable) Russian impersonator of Oswald (KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov?) over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet Embassy phone line?

--  MWT   

[Thomas Halle]

Nope, Mr. Graves...I'm not familiar with this ....though I will say that a careful examination of all the photographs of suspect Oswald strongly suggests that there were actually SEVERAL "Oswalds," as do the many stories of the man...when he COULDN'T POSSIBLY have been in all those places. BTW, thanks for the polite reply. I find that on JFK ass. pages, there is PLENTY of personal attack and absurd, dogma-like reasoning.

[Thomas Graves]

Nope, Mr. Graves...I'm not familiar with this ....though I will say that a careful examination of all the photographs of suspect Oswald strongly suggests that there were actually SEVERAL "Oswalds," as do the many stories of the man...when he COULDN'T POSSIBLY have been in all those places. BTW, thanks for the polite reply. I find that on JFK ass. pages, there is PLENTY of personal attack and absurd, dogma-like reasoning.

Thomas,

You're welcome, and I agree.

On the substantive issues in my post, maybe you should look into the names I mentioned.

For Obyedkov, read what I've written about him by googling Byetkov Obyedkov (simultaneously).

For what I've written about Leonov, google Leonov "Blond Oswald" (simultaneously).

For Nosenko and Kulak, and for general background on how "KGB"/GRU has been running circles around our intelligence agencies (and those of our allies) since day one, read Tennent H. Bagley's 2007 book Spy Wars (free to read on the Internet), his 2014 follow-up PDF Ghosts of the Spy Wars, and pertinent chapters in Mark Riebling's 1994 book Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA (also free to read on the Internet.

Here's Spy Wars for you:

https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames

-- MWT   

[Michael Clark]

Thomas,

Have you considered the possibility that they were simply reacting to the WW III Virus that was planted in Oswald's CIA file on October 2, 1963, by KGB triple-agent Ivan Obyedkov, KGB triple-agent Aleksey Kulak (aka Hoover's "protected"-from-CIA "Fedora"), KGB officer Oleg Brykin, mysterious former East German Guenter Schulz (Hoover's "Tumbleweed"), KGB officer Valery Kostikov, himself, and a (probable) Russian impersonator of Oswald (KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov?) over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet Embassy phone line?

--  MWT   

Thomas is referring to a conclusion, reached, or suggested, by John Newman, that the “diabolical” James Jesus Angleton placed a WW3 virus in Oswald’s file that would come to life after the assassination. Newman does not mention and makes no claim, as far as I know, that the Russians planted that virus. Newman places the blame for doing that, with intent, on JJA. Thomas is hijacking a theory of Newman’s which points the finger at the CIA (or a rogue traitor and spy, JJA) and trying to claim that this was the work of the Russians. If Dr. Newman has changed his take on this I would like to hear about it.

[Michael Clark]

Here's Spy Wars for you:

https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames

-- MWT   

Here is Howard Olsen’s opinion of Tennant Bagley

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf

TOP SECRET

13 October 1970

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington

#386 38

1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive  Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of Bagely to a supergrade position.

 2)  I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.

 3)  I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that  Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's  instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that  Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions. 

 

Howard J. Osborn

Director of Security

[Thomas Graves]

This has all been debunked ages ago on the EF. Perhaps you should go over there and study this subject in more depth. I can't believe in this day and age that someone still misconstrues what John Newman said. Do you have much experience about that which you posit? It's not wise to piggyback off of someone's words and apply your own meaning to it, especially in this case. Just do a search for it on the EF, I am sure every question that you have thoughts about, is plainly and more than amply stated over there.

Jeff,

Debunked by whom?

A tinfoil hat-wearing "The Evil, Evil, Evil CIA Did It" ... "researcher," or two?

Doesn't it bother you that Duran and Azcue both described the Oswald they'd dealt with (or not) in such a way that perfectly described "Third Secretary/Assistant Cultural Attache" KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov, and that the Soviet Embassy "security guard" who volunteered (over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" to an Oswald impersonator (who, as Peter Dale Scott points out, spoke Russian poorly -- i.e., on purpose? -- AND English poorly -- i.e., naturally?) was a KGB triple-agent whom CIA mistakenly believed was working for CIA?

What's with the attitude, btw?

-- MWT 

PS  Disregard the Bruce "Sucker" Solie-influenced "Osborn Document" that Michael Clark posts every time I say something good about his bugbear,Tennent H. Bagley, and just bear in mind that it was proved in Bagley's 2007 book that he, Newton "Scotty" Miler, and Angleton, et al., were right, after all:  Nosenko was a false defector sent here to get CIA and FBI to disbelieve a previous (true) defector -- Anatoliy Golitsyn.

Newman even convinced Peter Dale Scott of this last year in San Francisco.

Btw, ever heard of the first CIA officer ever recruited by the KGB, Edward Ellis Smith, in 1956?

[Bill Chapman]

Sure you do, Bill.   

I remember that time on the hacked version of this forum that you were gleeful about Trump being elected.

What you don't know is that I had my 'do changed to match his.
But I just can't grope anybody; not my thing...

And surely you must remember me calling the next POTUS 'she' when referring to the then upcoming election.
Pretty sure you said something like 'I saw what you did there' re my gender reference.