Why the first shot missed

[Charles Collins]

In my model, the strike point for the Max Holland/Lost Bullet theory is on the outer arm of the traffic light assembly.

The seated shooter's left hand would have to hold the rifle with the trigger-guard housing to be clear of the pipes. Also the center of the rifle butt-plate is about four inches above the un-artictulated right shoulder. Unless the right shoulder rises some distance while pointing a rifle down, the shooter would have to standing.

This is academic as there is too much against a first shot as early as Max Holland has proposed.

Nice work Jerry! Yes, I agree, Max Holland's theory appears to be a little early. Could you please give me the locations and dimensions of the pipes that you have come up with so that I may add them to my model? It could be that the left arm bumped the pipes during the tracking motion. And that that caused the shot to miss (in lieu of the boxes). Also, do you have an idea of the timing of Willis' slide #4? It appears to me that it is in the vicinity of Z133. Perhaps a little later. Thanks.

[Jerry Organ]

Nice work Jerry! Yes, I agree, Max Holland's theory appears to be a little early. Could you please give me the locations and dimensions of the pipes that you have come up with so that I may add them to my model? It could be that the left arm bumped the pipes during the tracking motion. And that that caused the shot to miss (in lieu of the boxes). Also, do you have an idea of the timing of Willis' slide #4? It appears to me that it is in the vicinity of Z133. Perhaps a little later. Thanks.

Sorry, Charles. I haven't forgotten your request. My placement of the pipes is a visual guess. Obviously use at own risk.

I sent the Sixth Museum a request for measurements, and the curator, who's really helpful, told me just now that he will get back to me with true measurements when they access that area for maintenance. I'll PM those to you when I get them. Meanwhile you can use what I am using or build off it.

The westward pipe is a simple vertical. As I have it, the total height of the coupling is 3 1/4". I have the bottom of the coupling 8 13/16" above the floor (just make it 8 3/4" or 9", whatever). The coupling doesn't interfere with a hypothetical shooter; I put the coupling in there for the sake of completeness and haven't bothered with the bolts.

For the east pipe, I drew straight lines and angled them and placed them where I thought the center of the pipe ran. I then used SketchUp's "Follow-Me" tool to create the pipe by having a 2" circle follow the "path" of the lines. The Sketchup Tool decided I needed two elbows at each of the two bends. The closest any part of the first bend is to the floor is 13".

There is something wrong with my measurements. If the pipes are 2", then the planks have to be about 3". Or the planks are correct and the pipes needs to be a bit wider. Anyway, the key is how the westward pipe is relative to the window's masonry opening, which I think is fairly close now. That's the pipe that interferes.

[Charles Collins]

Sorry, Charles. I haven't forgotten your request. My placement of the pipes is a visual guess. Obviously use at own risk.

I sent the Sixth Museum a request for measurements, and the curator, who's really helpful, told me just now that he will get back to me with true measurements when they access that area for maintenance. I'll PM those to you when I get them. Meanwhile you can use what I am using or build off it.

The westward pipe is a simple vertical. As I have it, the total height of the coupling is 3 1/4". I have the bottom of the coupling 8 13/16" above the floor (just make it 8 3/4" or 9", whatever). The coupling doesn't interfere with a hypothetical shooter; I put the coupling in there for the sake of completeness and haven't bothered with the bolts.

For the east pipe, I drew straight lines and angled them and placed them where I thought the center of the pipe ran. I then used SketchUp's "Follow-Me" tool to create the pipe by having a 2" circle follow the "path" of the lines. The Sketchup Tool decided I needed two elbows at each of the two bends. The closest any part of the first bend is to the floor is 13".

There is something wrong with my measurements. If the pipes are 2", then the planks have to be about 3". Or the planks are correct and the pipes needs to be a bit wider. Anyway, the key is how the westward pipe is relative to the window's masonry opening, which I think is fairly close now. That's the pipe that interferes.

Thanks Jerry! Yes I have communicated several times with Stephen Fagin at the sixth floor museum and he has been very helpful each time. He is the one to contact regarding the oral history collection.

[Denis Pointing]

Sorry, Charles. I haven't forgotten your request. My placement of the pipes is a visual guess. Obviously use at own risk.

I sent the Sixth Museum a request for measurements, and the curator, who's really helpful, told me just now that he will get back to me with true measurements when they access that area for maintenance. I'll PM those to you when I get them. Meanwhile you can use what I am using or build off it.

The westward pipe is a simple vertical. As I have it, the total height of the coupling is 3 1/4". I have the bottom of the coupling 8 13/16" above the floor (just make it 8 3/4" or 9", whatever). The coupling doesn't interfere with a hypothetical shooter; I put the coupling in there for the sake of completeness and haven't bothered with the bolts.

For the east pipe, I drew straight lines and angled them and placed them where I thought the center of the pipe ran. I then used SketchUp's "Follow-Me" tool to create the pipe by having a 2" circle follow the "path" of the lines. The Sketchup Tool decided I needed two elbows at each of the two bends. The closest any part of the first bend is to the floor is 13".

There is something wrong with my measurements. If the pipes are 2", then the planks have to be about 3". Or the planks are correct and the pipes needs to be a bit wider. Anyway, the key is how the westward pipe is relative to the window's masonry opening, which I think is fairly close now. That's the pipe that interferes.

Hi Jerry, builder here, so I may be able to help. Most floorboards, 'planks' as you call them, are 6" wide, those look like soil/main drain pipes, not water pipes so they're going to be 4" diameter. These measurements are confirmed by the bricks, ie 3no vertical courses are approximately 8". Nice work, mate.

[James Hackerott]

Sorry, Charles. I haven't forgotten your request. My placement of the pipes is a visual guess. Obviously use at own risk.

I sent the Sixth Museum a request for measurements, and the curator, who's really helpful, told me just now that he will get back to me with true measurements when they access that area for maintenance. I'll PM those to you when I get them. Meanwhile you can use what I am using or build off it.

The westward pipe is a simple vertical. As I have it, the total height of the coupling is 3 1/4". I have the bottom of the coupling 8 13/16" above the floor (just make it 8 3/4" or 9", whatever). The coupling doesn't interfere with a hypothetical shooter; I put the coupling in there for the sake of completeness and haven't bothered with the bolts.

For the east pipe, I drew straight lines and angled them and placed them where I thought the center of the pipe ran. I then used SketchUp's "Follow-Me" tool to create the pipe by having a 2" circle follow the "path" of the lines. The Sketchup Tool decided I needed two elbows at each of the two bends. The closest any part of the first bend is to the floor is 13".

There is something wrong with my measurements. If the pipes are 2", then the planks have to be about 3". Or the planks are correct and the pipes needs to be a bit wider. Anyway, the key is how the westward pipe is relative to the window's masonry opening, which I think is fairly close now. That's the pipe that interferes.

Hi Jerry and Charles,

Please allow me to submit my 3D work of the Snipper's Nest. The bent pipe was always a problem to model until I discovered, in the POV-Ray software, a procedure named “sphere_sweep” - very similar to your description of SketchUp's “Follow-Me” tool.  I use a 2” diameter for both pipes, basically because that looks right. I'm eager to learn Steven Fagan's results if you would kindly share those. Attached is an animated GIF with and without a box-sitting Virtual Action Figure posed for  ~Z225. All checker board surfaces use 3” squares. The center of the west pipe 42” west of the east wall and 7” from the south wall. Oddly placed shadows are due to use of an overhead lamp to improve visibility. The 3D model is under construction, and always will be. FIW
James

[Jerry Organ]

Hi Jerry, builder here, so I may be able to help. Most floorboards, 'planks' as you call them, are 6" wide, those look like soil/main drain pipes, not water pipes so they're going to be 4" diameter. These measurements are confirmed by the bricks, ie 3no vertical courses are approximately 8". Nice work, mate.

Thanks, Denis. You're just the fellow we 3Ders need.



The Museum measured an exterior brick at ground level: 8 1/8" long, 2 3/16" high and 3 7/8 wide. 1/2" mortar. The building was rebuild in 1902 and so nothing's standard with today.

The height of the bricks inside the wooden window frame are the same as the height of the bricks outside the frame. The width of the pipes are about the height of a brick. I used 2" as a starting place. The floorboards are roughly 1 1/2-times the width of the pipes. I didn't notice that until today. I believe the floorboards to be about 3 1/2", probably less. I think I have to adjust the width of either/both the floorboards and the pipes, and adjust the angle of the floorboards a bit sharper. Really hard to figure what to do without the measurements, which are in the works.



Your suggestion as to purpose made me wonder if the pipes could be for dry-venting. I think the pipes were put in after the building was built; they look so unplanned. They seem to go through the ceiling on the seventh floor. Doesn't the seventh floor seem high? I suppose pre-AC, some top floors in Texas had the extra height for ventilation.



You can right-click-open the image in another window to make it bigger. Do you know why the horizontal bricks beneath the SN window pair have a shorter brick on each course that is placed randomly? I know they're trying to equalize a space, but did they knowingly place those odd-length bricks at random areas to hide the need for them? I didn't notice them until I started to build the model. That's pretty clever of the bricklayers.

[John Mytton]

 

Who says we can't learn something new 50+ years later.
Keep it up boys and keep posting these awesome 3D visual aids.

JohnM

[Ray Mitcham]

Hi Jerry, builder here,

A jerry builder who admits it. Very honest of you Denis.