Where Were Jane Berry, Betty Thornton and Peggy Burney During the Motorcade?

[Thomas Graves]

Quote me ever saying that your Towner blobs are men wearing bermuda shorts, or even using the term "bermuda shorts".

Or admit that that's just a load of your trademark Tommy BS.

No, Iacoletti, you're far too clever for that.

What you strongly implied by posting those two photos (and with the telling words you "captioned" them with) in the context of the ongoing little "debate" we were having at the time on various and sundry threads was that the three people on the Pergola Patio weren't necessarily women wearing what appeared in one case to be a knee-length skirt, and in two cases calf-length dresses (or perhaps raincoats over their dresses) for the simple reason that they could very well have been men who were wearing (implausibly long) Bermuda shorts while watching the presidential motorcade on a cool and blustery late November day in conservative 1963 Dallas.

Or, as I believe you stated in words, that they very well could have been men wearing trousers tucked into high, flesh-colored boots ... while watching the motorcade in conservative 1963 Dallas.

(Have you thought of any other possibilities, yet?)

--  MWT   

Iacoletti: "Well, if that doesn't scream "women", then I don't know what does."


Iacoletti: "Are you claiming that somehow it's too cold for men to bare their legs, but not women?  That's rather sexist of you."



Edit: Given the context of our little debate (three people on the Pergola Patio in the Towner film), and the immediate issue (their gender), it's clear from the top photo, above, and the "caption" you wrote for it that you're suggesting I might have mistaken three Bermuda shorts-wearing guys on the Pergola Patio for women.

The only problem is, the "Bermuda shorts" that your presumptive men on the patio are wearing are a lot longer than the shorts in the photo you provided, and when you closely watch those three people in the film as they're walking, you realize that the garments they're wearing aren't Bermuda shorts (or even trousers tucked into flesh-colored boots), but a skirt in one case, and dresses (or raincoats covering skirts or dresses) in the other two.

[John Iacoletti]

No, Iacoletti, you're far too clever for that.

Then stop claiming that I said things I didn’t actually say. It’s dishonest and just makes you look more foolish than you already are.

What you strongly implied by posting those two photos

That’s your problem in a nutshell. You are unable to distinguish between inferences that you make and what other people actually say.

Or, as I believe you stated in words, that they very well could have been men wearing trousers tucked into their high, flesh-colored boots ... while watching the motorcade in conservative 1963 Dallas.

There you go again. No, I did not state that in words or in any other way.

(Have you thought of any other possibilities, yet?)

I don’t care what’s possible. I care about what you can demonstrate with evidence, not speculation and conjecture. Unlike you, I have no problem accepting “I don’t know” as an answer when that’s all you’ve got.

Edit: making up more creative stories about what you think you see when you “closely watch” fuzzy images is an exercise in futility. Who are you trying to kid?

[Thomas Graves]

Then stop claiming that I said things I didn’t actually say. It’s dishonest and just makes you look more foolish than you already are.

That’s your problem in a nutshell. You are unable to distinguish between inferences that you make and what other people actually say.

There you go again. No, I did not state that in words or in any other way.

I don’t care what’s possible. I care about what you can demonstrate with evidence, not speculation and conjecture. Unlike you, I have no problem accepting “I don’t know” as an answer when that’s all you’ve got.

Edit: making up more creative stories about what you think you see when you “closely watch” fuzzy images is an exercise in futility. Who are you trying to kid?

Iacoletti,

Why did you post those two photos (and write the "captions" the way you did) of Bermuda shorts-wearing guys on the world-renowned JFK Assassination Forum, if not to try to convince us that the three people on the Pergola Patio in the Towner film might not be women, but three Bermuda shorts-wearing guys, instead?

Note: The operative word in my post is "might".

--  MWT   

[John Iacoletti]

Why did you post those two photos

Already answered. Why do you ask the same questions over and over again?

Note: The operative phrase in my post is "might be".

Your blobs “might be” lots of things. For once show some integrity and admit that you’re trying to pull a giant bait and switch here by leaping from “might be women” to “specifically Simmons, Holt, and Jacob”.

[Thomas Graves]

Already answered. Why do you ask the same questions over and over again?

Iacoletti,

Did you answer that question on this thread, or on another one some time ago?

I can't find it, so please freshen my memory.

Why did you post the photo of the five or six guys wearing Bermuda shorts in nice weather, and the photo of the guy wearing Bermuda shorts in the snow?

To suggest that the three people on the Pergola Patio in the Towner film might be three guys wearing really, really long Bermuda shorts to a presidential motorcade on a cool and blustery late-November day in conservative 1963 Dallas, even though when you watch them walking you can tell they're wearing dresses, or raincoats-over-dresses, instead?

Was that it?

--  MWT   

PS  What's that blue thing on the head of the one on the right, something that's "coincidentally" the same color as the headscarf your "Karen Westbrook" is wearing in the Zapruder film?

[Barry Pollard]

Well put, Barry.

How did Karen Westbrook "identify" herself in the Zapruder film 1) from behind, 2) at a considerable distance from from the camera, 3) while wearing a headscarf, 4) fifty-five years after the fact?

Answer: By confusing Gloria Holt's strawberry-blond hair with Gloria Calvery's dark red hair, and mistaking Sharon Simmon's "Baby Boy Blue"-colored headscarf for her own lighter-blue one.

Those two unfortunate juxtapositions evidently cast a voodoo spell on her, and smilin' and noddin' Stephen Fagin of the The Sixth Floor Museum certainly didn't help, and may have even pushed her in that direction.

-- MWT   

Having watched it again carefully, I tend to agree, the ID of Calvert(is that what she called her?) itself is very weak and again from behind.  The idea that she immeadiatly thought the shots came from her building was questioned briefly and, she caved, revealing that she went back there first, then saw policemen coming inside, thats how/when she knew.  But this ID of "Calvert" and someone dissagreeing with her was deemed funny by the pair of them.  I don't get it and quite honestly, I wouldn't put much trust in what she said about the assassination at all, sorry.

[John Iacoletti]

I can't find it, so please freshen my memory.

You'll just misrepresent it again.  What's the point?

You made the silly argument that because you thought you saw bare legs in your Towner blob that this meant that it must be women.  I was pointing out that even if it actually is bare legs that you think you see, that doesn't prove anything about their gender.

Likewise, even if you think you see a blue scarf, that doesn't somehow make it Sharon Simmons.  Because, among other things, you don't even know what colors Sharon Simmons was wearing that day.

Bottom line:  what you think you see is not some standard of reality.  I couldn't care less about what you think you see.

At least admit that all of your pronouncements about who is who in the Z film are pure speculation.

[John Iacoletti]

Having watched it again carefully, I tend to agree, the ID of Calvert(is that what she called her?) itself is very weak and again from behind.  The idea that she immeadiatly thought the shots came from her building was questioned briefly and, she caved, revealing that she went back there first, then saw policemen coming inside, thats how/when she knew.  But this ID of "Calvert" and someone dissagreeing with her was deemed funny by the pair of them.  I don't get it and quite honestly, I wouldn't put much trust in what she said about the assassination at all, sorry.

That doesn't somehow make Tommy Graves' wild-ass guesses more reliable than an actual witness.