First shot reactions

[Charles Collins]

The hood opening doesn't match. If the hood opening is narrow, the hood itself will be too wide to be comparable to Z144.

What you're contending is a hood opening in Z144 is shadow on the right side of her face. Z144 exhibits a tonal change in the head area that's darker than her jacket. A frame later it becomes obvious that she's facing forward.

Her left arm comes forward and crosses in front of her in one motion while she's in shade and as she emerges. I think some people move their arms when they're running.

Funny that her hood exhibits flesh tone in some of the frames.

The hood opening doesn't match. If the hood opening is narrow, the hood itself will be too wide to be comparable to Z144.

The hood is not a rigid shape. It is fabric clothing and conforms to the shape of the person inside it, along with other forces such as the wind, gravity, movement, etc. Also the angles involved are most likely not the exact same ones in both photos.

What you're contending is a hood opening in Z144 is shadow on the right side of her face. Z144 exhibits a tonal change in the head area that's darker than her jacket. A frame later it becomes obvious that she's facing forward.

Here is the next frame:


The main difference I see is that the hood appears a little wider which would counter your initial objection (that it appears too narrow).


Her left arm comes forward and crosses in front of her in one motion while she's in shade and as she emerges. I think some people move their arms when they're running.


First her head turns to her right while she is still in the shadows. Then her shoulders follow the head and swing to her right along with the upper torso. The left arm follows the left shoulder as she emerges into the sunlight.

Funny that her hood exhibits flesh tone in some of the frames.

No, however I do see what might be a shadow streak (that isn't blazing white) that is around the base of the neck and chest area. I might guess that it could be the shadow from a limb. Here is frame z216, it shows her facial flesh tones, and darker hair, surrounded by the white hood (which is what I would expect to see in z144 and z145 if her head was facing forward). The white jacket shows patches of bright white because she is standing in an area where some sunlight is shining through what I would assume to be branches of a tree. Notice the difference in the flesh tones of her face, hands, and legs as compared to the darker (shaded) areas of the white jacket. I think you might be mistaking what appears to me to be shaded white for flesh tones in z144 and z145. And the very front part of Rosemary's face and darker hair can clearly be seen on the camera left of her hood in z144.

[Andrew Mason]

The narrow shape of her head in Z144 doesn't seem consistent with her head being turned to her right.

I know you don't think it means anything, but it is interesting that Rosemary Willis suddenly turns her head back toward the TSBD from z202 to about z206. That couldn't be because she thought she had just heard the loud noise (but didn't of course) that she said prompted her to look back at the TSBD where she saw pigeons flying from the roof - the same noise that her father also thought he heard (but obviously didn't) just before he took his z202 photo.

[Gary Craig]

[Andrew Mason]

Hey Jerry:  As I mentioned earlier and as this memo shows, in early 1964 they had figured out the correct shot sequence.  The "bat-spombleprofglidnoctobuns crazy theory" was SBT.

[Bill Chapman]

Hey Jerry:  As I mentioned earlier and as this memo shows, in early 1964 they had figured out the correct shot sequence.  The "bat-spombleprofglidnoctobuns crazy theory" was SBT.

Re SBT: Tell us what FMJ ammo is designed to do. You can look it up if you have to.

[Andrew Mason]

Not your shot sequence, though. Notice where they placed the first shot? While Kennedy was behind the sign, not before he went behind the sign, and certainly not Z191-or-so.

They were looking for JFK's first reaction. There is no obvious reaction before z225.  So they aren't able to pinpoint where JFK's reaction began.  So their conclusion that it happened while he was behind the sign is not unreasonable.   The memo also says within + or - 6 frames. JFK is behind the sign from z198 to z225.  The evidence puts it after the VP car completes the turn, after Betzner's z186 photo, and before Phil Willis' z202 photo.  It is difficult to pinpoint exactly.   I put the first shot a few frames before z198, likely at z195, largely based on Jack Ready's reaction which begins at z199, and Rosemary Willis' sharp turning of her head (at z202). 

What is more important is that, based on the available evidence, a group of reasonable people were persuaded that JFK was struck on the first shot. There is a lot of evidence that supported that conclusion.

They also think Kennedy alone was hit by the first shot; you say Kennedy and Connally were. They say Connally was stuck only one time, on the second shot; you say he was hit a second time on the second shot.

That is true.  Their analysis was not perfect. But it is understandable. Connally recalled being hit by only one bullet.  They overlooked the possibility that the reason Connally had no recollection of sustaining a leg wound was because a) it caused no pain and b) he was preoccupied with the sound of a rifle shot and fearing an assassination was unfolding.  The trajectory through JFK definitely goes to Connally's left side but no one realized that Connally's left thigh could have been exposed to a direct hit by a tumbling bullet after passing through JFK.

As it is that you're referencing the memo, you're confirming that your primary basis for rejecting the SBT is unscientific knee-jerk scoffing.

No. I was just pointing out, as I mentioned in post #88, that I am not the only one who ever thought that all three bullets hit in the car.  It is a very rational conclusion based on evidence.  It is just one that you disagree with.

As I have said many times, the primary basis for rejecting the SBT is ALL the evidence, such as:

1.   At least 20 witnesses said that JFK was hit by the first shot, judging by his reaction.  Not a single witness said he smiled and waved afterward, which is what you believe.
2.  At least 20 witnesses put the first shot after z186, for many different reasons.
3.  The best witnesses to the assassination - the Connallys, Greer, Powers, Hickey - gave evidence indicating that all three bullets struck in the car.  There is no evidence to explain why Oswald would have missed, especially the first shot and no real evidence of a missed shot.
4.  The 40+ witnesses who distinctly recalled the last two shots being close together ("rapid succession") and closer than the first two, (not including those witnesses who just described a first shot followed by two more) necessarily means JFK was hit by the first shot.

[Andrew Mason]

Re SBT: Tell us what FMJ ammo is designed to do. You can look it up if you have to.

FMJ ammunition was designed to stop soldiers from engaging in combat and not to cause devastating wounds in soldiers that simply resulted in unnecessary pain and suffering while accomplishing no military objective.  FMJ ammunition was not "designed" to go through multiple bodies.   If it had been designed to go through multiple persons without causing devastating wounds, FMJ failed because once a FMJ bullet becomes unstable it can cause devastating wounds.

[Andrew Mason]

Z225 is the endpoint, so Z219-Z2225.

And 225 + 6 = z231 so I don't think they were using z225.  They said it was "a moment" before z225 while JFK was behind the sign. They did not give a frame no. but put it within a range of 12 frames of the frame they were suggesting. (the car was at about 12 mph, which is 18 feet/sec, so it was moving about a foot per frame).   It is anybody's guess as to where behind the Stemmons sign they figured the shot struck.

Lady Bird said they were "rounding a curve" when she heard a shot.

.. she also said they were "going down a hill". (She also said the last two shot were in rapid succession).  Her statement is consistent with driver Hurchel Jacks who said that he had "just straightened up" after making the left turn. It has yet to "straighten up" at z186 and is just beginning the turn at z157. 

Right. Betzner was looking down and winding his camera when he heard a shot. He hasn't got that far by Z207 when he goes out of the Z-film.

He said he was winding his film. He did not say where he was looking.

That's your current placement. It's varied over the years.

I have been consistent in saying that the first shot occurred between z186 and z202.  I thought it was around z198 until a few years ago when I discovered Jack Ready and the zfilm could be used to pinpoint it a bit earlier. Jack Ready said when he heard the first shot he immediately turned to look back over his right shoulder.  To do that he had to release his right hand from the car handhold.  He did not do that until z199.

And the SBT is ridiculous? OK. LOL.

I didn't say that, although it is apparent that some may have thought as much in January 1964.  I don't attack others' views by making fun of them. I do it by pointing out the evidence that conflicts with it.

How on Earth did you establish that trajectory?

It depends on the range of possible seating positions of JBC. If he was sitting in front of JFK and less than 8 inches left of JFK, which is within that possible range, his right armpit was right of JFK's exit wound. And the bullet was travelling right to left.  Then you have to factor in JBC's sharp right turn at z195.

Well Betzner puts his so-called "first shot" to what seems a significant time beyond the Z200s, since he has to be looking down and winding his camera when he hears that shot.

He said he was winding his film. Why does he have to be looking down to do that?

Those are your "best witnesses" to all bullets striking in the car? OK.

Walking digital recorders.

All they had to do was observe.  They all had observations that indicate all three shots struck in the car.