First shot reactions

[Thomas Graves]

I guess about 20 to 25 feet.

How many seconds past Holland's putative "first shot" would that be?

Hard to say?

-- MWT 

[Thomas Graves]

In "Lost Bullet", Holland claims the first shot occurs as the President went beneath the right-lower corner of the traffic light assembly hanging at the end of the arm.

Holland claims the total shooting sequence was 11.3 seconds (about 207 Zapruder frames). Working back from Z313, Holland's first shot is about 27 frames (1.5 sec) before Z133. The Euins/PA Donaldson segments in "Lost Bullet" show the limousine stopped at Z134 (possibly Holland was trying for Z133 as he once used that as a reference point).

From Z134 to Z157 (approx. first shot proposed by some LNers) is 1.3 sec. Therefore, Holland's first shot is 2.8 seconds before the area most LNers place the first shot.

Jerry,

At which Z-frame do you believe the first shot occurred?

--  MWT 

[Thomas Graves]

I can't be bother (sic) with this. Goodbye.

Jerry,

I'm just trying to figure out what you believe.

1)  Which Z-frame do you believe correlates with the first shot?

2)  Do you believe James Tague was injured by the first shot?

3)  If not, then which shot was he injured by?

Thanks,
--  MWT   

[Thomas Graves]

And it's alright if you don't answer questions.

No specific frame. I believe Connally's rapid rightward head turn beginning Z162 suggests a first shot fired a few frames earlier. This has been gone over by me in this topic repeatedly.

I don't know. Could be the missed shot or a fragment from the head shot. Rague himself initially said second or third, but favors the second.

No opinion.

Jerry,

Your dismissal of Euins' and Donaldson's recollections in The Lost Bullet seem unfounded to me.

--  MWT   

[Thomas Graves]

You wrote: "If memory serves, what they said tended to suggest that the first shot happened a second or to before Zapruder turned his camera back on at Z-133 (iirc)."

Is that what you make of their statements?

Jerry,

And you don't, because Euins and Donaldson were "all wet" as to where they were standing and where the limo was when they heard the first shot?

--  Mudd Wrassler Tommy   

[Thomas Graves]

So you actually believe what Max Holland says about the first shot occurring 1.5 sec before Zapruder started filming?

I don't think there's anything left to discuss. Have a good one.

I thought it was 1.485382 seconds.

Uhh ... before he resumed filming, actually.

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

I thought it was 1.485382 seconds.

Uhh ... before he resumed filming, actually.

Graves believes Max Holland. Tell everyone you and Gary Mack were buddies too. That is absolutely nuts

[Andrew Mason]

Graves believes Max Holland.

Holland was trying to reconcile the SBT with the overwhelming evidence of the 1.....2..3  shot pattern.  It can't be done.    In his attempt to do that, he had to overlook the evidence that the last two shots were in rapid succession (5 seconds (z223-z313) doesn't fit that evidence) and that virtually everyone said that the first shot occurred at a point well after Zapruder started filming the motorcade cars.

The 1.....2...3 shot pattern cannot be reconciled with the SBT, but it does fit with Oswald firing all the shots.