The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!

[Michael Clark]

Michael,

Vague post.

What's the context?

--  MWT 

Cheers!

The context is your post, I quoted you. You are implying with your “et al.” that there is a list of like minded people on your list beyond Bagely, Angleton, and Miller? There isn’t.

[Michael Clark]

Michael,

Vague post.

What's the context?

And .. uhh ... regardless ... how do you know?

Something that Vladimir Putin, or Julian Assange, or Tim Leonard (aka "Adam Carter") told you?

Jefferson "Intellectually Dishonest" Morley?

James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio?

Dawn "Tin Foil Hat" Meredith?

Mark "The CPUSA Paid Me" Lane?

Oliver "I Trust Putin and My Son Works for RT" Stone?

Tom "Virtual Traitor Leonard McCoy Was My Main Source" Mangold?

David "Not So" Wise?

LOL

--  MWT 

Cheers!

Thomas, your list includes the set that is equal to everybody but you, and two other dead men.

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas, your list includes the set that is equal to everybody but you, and two other dead men.

Yep, it was monstrous wishfull-thinking on their part, all right, and ol' Yuri told 'em just what they wanted to hear!

Set?

Boolean Algebra, or a new hit singularity by that hip-hop group "Alice Mandelbrot and the Strange Attractors"?

Point Match?

[Michael Clark]

Michael,

As with most things on this forum and at the EF, you got it backwards.

As Tennent H. Bagley said, he and Scotty Miler, and James Angleton, et al., were undermined (and KGB's "Monster Plot" abetted) by a few spiteful and under-endowed CIA officers.

Probable mole Richard Kovich, and virtual traitors Leonard McCoy, John L. Hart, Bruce Solie, Howard Osborne, Richards J. Heuer, Clevelland Cram, and possible mole William Colby come to mind.

Cheers!

--  MWT 

What about Helms?

[Thomas Graves]

What about Helms?

Helms?

You didn't know he signed off on ol' Yuri just as a matter of expediency, and that in his HSCA testimony he called 'em a liar?

Nope, Helms distrusted Nosenko until the day he died.

He wasn't perfect, though.

In fact, one of Helms' biggest mistakes was following official procedure and turning the Peter Karlow serial over to JEH on January 9, 1962 -- three weeks after true-defector Golitsyn had defected to the U.S. -- and then, of course, some gumshoe FBI agents messed up the surveillance of the former "Easy Chair" chief.

Who was the FBI genius who thought of sending some agents to his house to ask him if they could use his basement to listen in on some his neighbors who were suspected by the FBI "of being German spies"?

Karlow says "okay," and the next morning, being a tech-guy, himself, easily realizes that they've tapped his phone, instead!

Oh yeah, and who was the genius in the FBI who had a "chimney sweeper" knock on his door and offer to clean his chimney  ... for free?

And so he grows suspicious and makes a mysterious trip to Philly with a box, goes into a building with the box and comes out without the box, and later tells his interrogators that it was his "extra prosthetic leg" that he'd taken in for "some repairs," and ... and ... and ... JEH gets frustrated with all this unproductive surveillance xxxx and, instead of "playing him" to see who else he might secretly contact, they haul his xxx in for five days of harsh interrorgation?

LOL

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he transported top-secret CIA docs to his KGB handler (in Philly?) inside his prosthetic leg, in a box, or not in a box.

Look it up in Mark Riebling's Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA. (It's free-to-read on the Internet.)

Cheers!

-- MWT 

[Thomas Graves]

The context is your post, I quoted you. You are implying with your “et al.” that there is a list of like minded people on your list beyond Bagely, Angleton, and Miller. There isn’t.

Michael,

Bagley's Soviet Russia/Soviet Block Counterintelligence section and James Angleton's CI Staff were both highly secretive and neither of them had a whole lot of people in them, but one name in Bagley's section that comes to mind is "Joe Westin," who, at a late date, tried to "go to bat" for the Nosenko-is-a-false-defector guys, but was told in so many words (by Colby or some other fool) that if he didn't cease and desist, there "wouldn't be room" for him in CIA.

A CIA employee who was convinced that Nosenko was a false defector and who also believed in Golitsyn's Monster Plot "theory" was true defector Pyotr Deriabin.  Ever heard of him?

How about William Hood (who was in a different division, altogether)?

There are probably others, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Maybe you should look at Bagley's "acknowledgements page" at the beginning of Spy Wars to get an inkling of some of the people who were on Bagley's, Angleton's and Miler's side in the Golitsyn versus Nosenko controversy, and everything that entailed?

Just an idea.

Cheers!

-- MWT 

[Thomas Graves]

 
The context is your post, I quoted you. You are implying with your “et al.” that there is a list of like minded people on your list beyond Bagely, Angleton, and Miller. [sic] There isn’t.
....

Michael,

Bagley's Soviet Russia/Soviet Block Counterintelligence section and James Angleton's CI Staff were both highly secretive and neither of them had a whole lot of people in them, but one name in Bagley's section that comes to mind is "Joe Westin," who, at a late date according to Bagley, tried to "go to bat" for the Nosenko-is-a-false-defector guys, but was told in so many words (by Colby or some other fool) that if he didn't cease and desist, there "wouldn't be room" for him in the CIA.

A CIA employee who was convinced that Nosenko was a false defector and who evidently also believed in Golitsyn's Monster Plot "theory" was true defector Pyotr Deriabin.  Ever heard of him?

How about William Hood (although he was in a different division)?

There are probably others, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Maybe you should look at Bagley's "acknowledgements page" at the beginning of Spy Wars to get an inkling of some of the people who were on Bagley's, Angleton's and Miler's side in the Golitsyn-versus-Nosenko controversy, and everything that entailed?

https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames

Just an idea.

Cheers!

-- MWT 

Michael,

Eighty-nine  Ninety-two  Ninety-four people, et al., are waiting for you to say something ...

Cheers!

-- MWT 

[Thomas Graves]

The context is your post, I quoted you. You are implying with your “et al.” that there is a list of like minded people on your list beyond Bagely, Angleton, and Miller. [sic] There isn’t.
....

Michael,

Eighty-nine  Ninety-two  Ninety-four people, et al., are waiting for you to say something ...

Cheers!

-- MWT 

But let's talk about probable mole George Kisevalter, shall we?

Russia-born chess prodigy George Kisevalter, the CIA "expert handler" who handled Pyotr Popov and Oleg Penkovsky before they were arrested by KGB and executed.

The native Russian speaker who was sent by CIA to Geneva in June 1962 to "help" Bagley interview Nosenko, and who was probably responsible for the 150 mis-transcriptions of the tape recordings that were secretly made during those five days in Switzerland, which mis-transcriptions were later discovered by true-defector Pyotr Deriabin.

The guy who later contradicted Bagley on the critical issue of whether or not Nosenko had mentioned, in June 1962, that U.S. Embassy security officer John Abidian had been spotted by KGB in December 1961 while he was allegedly checking on Penkovsky's "dead drop" on Pushkin Street.

The guy who, because of his great "stature" in CIA, was never interrogated during The Great Mole Hunt.

The guy who said Bagley's Russian was poor, and that Nosenko's English was ... poor.

The guy who, iirc, said Nosenko was virtually snockered on Scotch during every interview in Geneva.

The guy who swore up and down that Golitsyn was nuts, and Nosenko a true defector.

The guy ... (etc, etc)

No, Michael.

I might as well confess right now that (probable mole) George Kisevalter isn't on that "list".

He isn't exactly one of pro-Golitsyn / anti-Nosenko people I'm thinking of -- i.e., he's not and never will be one of the sacred "et al.s".

LOL

Cheers!

--  MWT