Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley

[Jerry Organ]

A lower trajectory slope would exit more up towards the apex, and thus cause a smaller gaping exit wound.

 JO, I don’t know much about the physics of what a frangible round does except explode once it hits something and from everything I have seen it usually gets inside what it hit and explodes. I think the exit explosions result would depend on things like thickness of the skull in the vicinity of the explosion.

But the type of ammunition used by Oswald will disintegrate when it strikes hard tissue (ie: the skull bone) (see: "Wound Ballistics Of 6.5-mm. Mannlicher-Carcano Ammunition" Link ).  The Carcano bullet was designed to stay intact for soft tissue transit only. The AR-15 rounds are different; they're designed to disintegrate when they strike either soft and hard tissue.

About 24 minutes into "JFK - The Smoking Gun", McLaren presents a melon being shot through with a Carcano bullet.

    "Darling, I think we're seeing a typical full-metal jacket right through drills
     a hole clean as a whistle."

However the use of a melon is not the ballistic equivalent of a human skull; it's equal to soft tissue. So all McLaren's melon demonstration proved was that a Carcano bullet will go smoothly through soft tissue. The problem is that McLaren claims the melon test proves that a Carcano bullet is inconsistent with the bullet that struck Kennedy's head because the bullet failed to disintegrate (but how could it disintegrate if all it's going through is a soft tissue stimulant?).

I leave those kinds of things up to the experts like Howard Donahue and Colin McLaren.

They are clearer thinking with regards to the Single-Bullet Theory being possible.

[Michael Carney]

 8-10 people say they saw a rifle/machine gun/AR15 in an agents hand, the only agent with a gun out was Hickey. 10-12 people smelled gunpowder which had  to have come from the front of the motorcade.  The fatal bullet came from Hickey’s direction. Deductive logic tells you Hickey fired the fatal shot.

[Jerry Organ]

8-10 people say they saw a rifle/machine gun/AR15 in an agents hand, the only agent with a gun out was Hickey.

Hickey himself said he retrieved the Colt AR-15 but only AFTER the head shot. The Bronson film shows no rifle deployed in the follow-up car. I believe Hickey is the elevated figure near the back seat, and he has yet to lower himself to get the rifle.

Willis-05 - Z202 (6 sec before head shot) Hickey not lowering to get rifle here

Zapruder frame 213 (5.5 sec before head shot) Hickey not lowering to get rifle here

Altgens-06 - Z255 (3.2 sec before head shot) Hickey not lowering to get rifle here

10-12 people smelled gunpowder which had  to have come from the front of the motorcade. 

They would smell just as well vehicle exhaust from the full-on acceleration of two heavy stretch-limos.

The fatal bullet came from Hickey’s direction.

The trajectory is much more consistent with a bullet from the Oswald window.

Deductive logic tells you Hickey fired the fatal shot.

Deductive logic ought to work with the evidence.

[Michael Carney]

Hickey himself said he retrieved the Colt AR-15 but only AFTER the head shot. The Bronson film shows no rifle deployed in the follow-up car. I believe Hickey is the elevated figure near the back seat, and he has yet to lower himself to get the rifle.
Z213 is about the time the second shot is fired, the magic bullet.  So he has 6-9 seconds to retrieve the gun, stand up and fire. That’s doable.
 They would smell just as well vehicle exhaust from the full-on acceleration of two heavy stretch-limos.
Two different smelling compounds in my eyes. I know gunpowder when I smell it, I used to make the stuff and light it up.
The trajectory is much more consistent with a bullet from the Oswald window.
Not according to Howard Donahue who was a ballistics expert.
Deductive logic ought to work with the evidence.
It does.
Have you seen the video JFK – The Smoking Gun?

[Royell Storing]

You went from claiming (or agreeing with):

   "Howard Donohue went through the Warren Report and found eleven witnesses
     that put the AR15 in Agent Hickeys hand at the time of the third shot. Of the
     eleven witnesses, seven are Secret Service agents."

to ....

    "So there are a lot of people seeing the AR15 in Hickey’s hand, some thinking he fired it."

Unless you think both claims amount to the same thing.

Those three we established only saw Hickey with the rifle AFTER the fatal shot. Lawson (Winston) based his thought that Hickey had fired his gun on a thought he had, not from actually witnessing it:

    "the first thing that flashed through my mind, this was the only weapon I had seen,
     was that he had fired because this was the only weapon I had seen up to that time."

Interesting that attention is not given to the part in the same affidavit where Holland pins the "first shot" to the head shot:

    "After the first shot the President slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy jumped up and
     tried to get over in the back seat to him."

Now that's perfectly consistent with when Hickey raised up the rifle, that is, AFTER the head shot. Holland or the transcriber got something mixed up when they associate the "first shot" with the head hsot.


That's nice. But you have to establish whether they actually saw Hickey with the rifle in his hands at the moment of the fatal shot.

       Lawson testified that, ".......I also noticed RIGHT AFTER the reports an agent STANDING UP with an automatic weapon in his hand....". He did Not say he saw an Agent rising or getting up inside the Queen Mary. In order for anyone to see Hickey with, "the rifle in his hands at the Moment of the fatal shot", that person would have to be looking Directly at the Queen Mary when the Kill Shot was fired. If you know of Any Eyewitness that did this please provide that information.     

[Jerry Organ]

       Lawson testified that, ".......I also noticed RIGHT AFTER the reports an agent STANDING UP with an automatic weapon in his hand....". He did Not say he saw an Agent rising or getting up inside the Queen Mary. 

Like to know what you think "right after" means. Instantly? One second? Four or five seconds?

In order for anyone to see Hickey with, "the rifle in his hands at the Moment of the fatal shot", that person would have to be looking Directly at the Queen Mary when the Kill Shot was fired.

Well, if you could find someone who noticed Hickey go to the floor (which is where you have the AR-15) in the 5.5 sec between Z213 (the last Z-frame his head is in) and Z313, that would be a start. But remember, during the 2.3 sec between Z213 and Z255 (the Altgens photo), Hickey has to go to the floor, grab the rifle, pop back up and turn his head towards the rear.

If not then, Hickey has to do the same (except instead of turning his head backward, he'll be turning it forward) in the 3.2 sec between the Altgens photo and the head shot. And he has turn off the safety, stand up and lose his balance.

If you know of Any Eyewitness that did this please provide that information.

I know of absolutely none. But by Mike Carney's count, there are eleven:

    "Howard Donohue went through the Warren Report and found eleven witnesses
     that put the AR15 in Agent Hickeys hand at the time of the third shot. Of the
     eleven witnesses, seven are Secret Service agents."

[John Mytton]

So he has 6-9 seconds to retrieve the gun, stand up and fire. That’s doable.

So they're driving down Elm street and in full view of everyone and cameras, Hickey reaches down and grabs his Colt AR-15 then stands up, aims and shoots Kennedy in the head? You have got to be kidding? I'm still laughing that's seriously nuts!

It's not easy to hide a Colt AR-15.



Btw most CTs believe that shooting a man in a moving car was impossible, so is a man in a moving car shooting another man in a moving car impossible squared?

JohnM

[John Iacoletti]

But the type of ammunition used by Oswald will disintegrate when it strikes hard tissue (ie: the skull bone)

“used by Oswald”. LOL.