A Better Sequence (TM DVP)

[John Iacoletti]

So now you're claiming that you didn't understand that I was referring to the UNALTERED evidence list....??

I doubt that .....

Yes because you were talking about the item that says “Partial palm print off underside gun barrel near end of foregrip on rifle C 2766”, which, as I keep reminding you, is exactly the same on both lists.

[Zeon Mason]

They would have passed the domino room about 12.22:30 and arrive at the SE corner of the fifth floor about 12.25pm.

That could very well be correct. And I think we can all agree that even if Oswald saw them walking towards the elevator at that time (as I think he did), it, by itself, would not provide him an alibi for the shooting at 12:30, as he could have made it to the 6th floor within the time frame.

If only there were no witnesses who saw activity in the SN window as early as approx. 12:15.

If Oswald does not begin his trek from Domino room until seeing Norman/Jarman get on the ground floor rear elevator at 12:23, then Oswald has to cross about 100 ft of 1st floor, then go UP 5 flights of 18 step staircases, and across 5 landings of about 15ft length on the diagonal, that would probably average out to at least 20 sec per floor (due to fatigue climbing against gravity) thus Oswald reaching 5th floor landing approx 100 sec or 1 min 40 sec after 12:23 which = 12:24:40. So yes, it is possible for Williams and Oswald to have missed seeing each other on the 5th floor landing ... HOWEVER..

Oswald still has ONE MORE flight of stairs to ascend, and 180 MORE ft of 6th floor to trek across and also must get his rifle from some hiding place, and that would therefore make it highly improbable to have  reached the SN window by 12:25, let alone have time to select which boxes he wanted to use, and move/slide 2 of the boxes up against low wall, and lift a 3rd box onto the window ledge, and then duck out of LOS just before Bronson film starts approx 12:25.

Unless someone can show Bronson film did not start until 12:26

[Colin Crow]

If Oswald does not begin his trek from Domino room until seeing Norman/Jarman get on the ground floor rear elevator at 12:23, then Oswald has to cross about 100 ft of 1st floor, then go UP 5 flights of 18 step staircases, and across 5 landings of about 15ft length on the diagonal, that would probably average out to at least 20 sec per floor (due to fatigue climbing against gravity) thus Oswald reaching 5th floor landing approx 100 sec or 1 min 40 sec after 12:23 which = 12:24:40. So yes, it is possible for Williams and Oswald to have missed seeing each other on the 5th floor landing ... HOWEVER..

Oswald still has ONE MORE flight of stairs to ascend, and 180 MORE ft of 6th floor to trek across and also must get his rifle from some hiding place, and that would therefore make it highly improbable to have  reached the SN window by 12:25, let alone have time to select which boxes he wanted to use, and move/slide 2 of the boxes up against low wall, and lift a 3rd box onto the window ledge, and then duck out of LOS just before Bronson film starts approx 12:25.

Unless someone can show Bronson film did not start until 12:26

Couple of points Zeon, I am not sure of the landing diagonal but I believe it to be about 3-4 steps. There were doors at each end of each floor landing. We don’t know it they were open or not. Williams claimed to have gone down to the 5th using the east elevator and if so, did not use the landing. The other factor that needs to be considered is the west elevator. The official "story" would require it to be taken from the 1st floor to the 6th after he called it down from the 5th. It was used previously by Jarman and Norman. It would take about 50 seconds each way. Dougherty initially went to the 6th momentarily and then down to the 5th floor using the elevator just before the shots.

[Walt Cakebread]

Couple of points Zeon, I am not sure of the landing diagonal but I believe it to be about 3-4 steps. There were doors at each end of each floor landing. We don’t know it they were open or not. Williams claimed to have gone down to the 5th using the east elevator and if so, did not use the landing. The other factor that needs to be considered is the west elevator. The official "story" would require it to be taken from the 1st floor to the 6th after he called it down from the 5th. It was used previously by Jarman and Norman. It would take about 50 seconds each way. Dougherty initially went to the 6th momentarily and then down to the 5th floor using the elevator just before the shots.

Are you sure the east elevator was on the fifth floor at 12:24 / 12:25?   I believe the east elevator was on six when Baker and Truly arrived on the fifth floor.

[Colin Crow]

Are you sure the east elevator was on the fifth floor at 12:24 / 12:25?   I believe the east elevator was on six when Baker and Truly arrived on the fifth floor.

Truly and Baker claimed to have taken the east elevator up from 5 about 12.33. West elevator was not there. If williams took it to 6 after noon to spend time in the SN, unless someone visited 6 it stayed there. He (eventually) claimed to take it down to 5, likely around 12.25. That’s about all we have to go on. The official story relies on Dougherty moving the west elevator from 5 after Baker and Truly ascent the stairs and before they reach 5.

[Alan Ford]

Don't forget what Mr Williams told the FBI 11/23/63!



 

[Colin Crow]

Don't forget what Mr Williams told the FBI 11/23/63!



 

Might this have been the mixing of two events? The moving of the west elevator (Dougherty) and the arrival of Baker (stairs).



Here is Bonnie Ray on his way to City Hall, how old does he look?

[John Iacoletti]

Here is Bonnie Ray on his way to City Hall, how old does he look?

Elderly.