A Better Sequence (TM DVP)

[Walt Cakebread]

If Oswald does not begin his trek from Domino room until seeing Norman/Jarman get on the ground floor rear elevator at 12:23, then Oswald has to cross about 100 ft of 1st floor, then go UP 5 flights of 18 step staircases, and across 5 landings of about 15ft length on the diagonal, that would probably average out to at least 20 sec per floor (due to fatigue climbing against gravity) thus Oswald reaching 5th floor landing approx 100 sec or 1 min 40 sec after 12:23 which = 12:24:40. So yes, it is possible for Williams and Oswald to have missed seeing each other on the 5th floor landing ... HOWEVER..

Oswald still has ONE MORE flight of stairs to ascend, and 180 MORE ft of 6th floor to trek across and also must get his rifle from some hiding place, and that would therefore make it highly improbable to have  reached the SN window by 12:25, let alone have time to select which boxes he wanted to use, and move/slide 2 of the boxes up against low wall, and lift a 3rd box onto the window ledge, and then duck out of LOS just before Bronson film starts approx 12:25.

Unless someone can show Bronson film did not start until 12:26

Junior Jarman said that he and Harold Norman arrived on the fifth floor about 12:28....  Do you believe that it took the west elevator FIVE  minutes to rise from the 1st floor to the 5th floor?

[Walt Cakebread]

Might this have been the mixing of two events? The moving of the west elevator (Dougherty) and the arrival of Baker (stairs).



Here is Bonnie Ray on his way to City Hall, how old does he look?

BRW is on the right...He is the epitome of a very worried man....

[Alan Ford]

Might this have been the mixing of two events? The moving of the west elevator (Dougherty) and the arrival of Baker (stairs).

Possibly, I suppose, but it would be quite a mistake for Mr Williams to make (and that's assuming Mr Dougherty's story is legit, which is pretty doubtful IMO!)

Here is Bonnie Ray on his way to City Hall, how old does he look?

Mr Rowland didn't see him on blurry TV footage.

Mr Williams did not look like "an elderly gentleman, bald or practically bald, very thin hair if he wasn't bald"...





And he wasn't wearing a plaid shirt.

Is it possible Mr Rowland got these details badly wrong? Sure. But is it the likely explanation?

[Zeon Mason]

Junior Jarman said that he and Harold Norman arrived on the fifth floor about 12:28....  Do you believe that it took the west elevator FIVE  minutes to rise from the 1st floor to the 5th floor?

Mr. BALL - Where did you stand?
Mr. JARMAN - I was standing over to the right in front of the building going toward the west.
Mr. BALL - Were you on the sidewalk or curb?
Mr. JARMAN - On the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL - The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25

then later, Jarman changes the story:

Representative FORD - You went by the front to the corner of Houston and Elm, and then down Houston towards the loading dock?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - And where did you get on the elevator?
Mr. JARMAN - We walked around to the back entrance and went through this door here, and this elevator here was up on six, I believe. And we walked around the elevator and took the west elevator up.
Representative FORD - How could you tell this elevator was at six?
Mr. JARMAN - Because after we got around to the other side we looked up.
Representative FORD - You could see it was on six?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Representative FORD - This was about what time?
Mr. JARMAN - That was about 12:25 or 12:28.
Representative FORD - You got off the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - As you rode the elevator, you noticed the other one was on the sixth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - Right, sir.


So Jarman has a range from 12:20 to 12:28 but it is NOT likely 12:28 since Bonnie Ray Willams HAS to leave the SN window by about not later than 12:23:30 so  there is enough time for some shooter to walk onto the floor some 180 ft to that window, and place a box on the ledge not later than approx 12:25

[Colin Crow]

Possibly, I suppose, but it would be quite a mistake for Mr Williams to make (and that's assuming Mr Dougherty's story is legit, which is pretty doubtful IMO!)

Mr Rowland didn't see him on blurry TV footage.

Mr Williams did not look like "an elderly gentleman, bald or practically bald, very thin hair if he wasn't bald"...





And he wasn't wearing a plaid shirt.

Is it possible Mr Rowland got these details badly wrong? Sure. But is it the likely explanation?

If Dougherty didn’t move the west elevator after Baker and Truly ascended and before they arrived on the 5th floor, who did? Who called it down to the first, moved it and then left the gates open after Jarman and Norman left it on the 5th? From what I can make out it was either Dougherty or a huge hole in the WC narrative.

Rowland saw the man in the 6th floor window from about 200ft, not from a few feet. He saw him momentarily on a couple of occasions and had no reason to pay him any real attention. So, he got his age wrong, big deal. The clothing was not quite right. Williams "eventually" admitted he was there. Logic shows he was there at the time in question. Half a dozen officers who saw the SN before the arrival of Fritz noted remnants of his chicken lunch. The lunch in the SN was being talked about on the media no later than about 90 minutes after the shots. Gerald Hill called down to those below of the chicken lunch about 1.05pm.

Ball and Belin spent some time with Norman, Jarman and Williams in late March to sort out their "lies". They knew that Williams was there when Rowland testified. Yet what did the WC do? Used the age descriptor to get pictures of West and Piper. They never showed Rowland a picture of the black man they knew was on the sixth floor. At that time it did not fit with the LN senario. So Rowland was shamefully discredited.

Go and test yourself how correct you describe someone from 200 feet away after glancing at them momentarily.

[Colin Crow]

Mr. BALL - Where did you stand?
Mr. JARMAN - I was standing over to the right in front of the building going toward the west.
Mr. BALL - Were you on the sidewalk or curb?
Mr. JARMAN - On the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL - The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25

then later, Jarman changes the story:

Representative FORD - You went by the front to the corner of Houston and Elm, and then down Houston towards the loading dock?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - And where did you get on the elevator?
Mr. JARMAN - We walked around to the back entrance and went through this door here, and this elevator here was up on six, I believe. And we walked around the elevator and took the west elevator up.
Representative FORD - How could you tell this elevator was at six?
Mr. JARMAN - Because after we got around to the other side we looked up.
Representative FORD - You could see it was on six?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Representative FORD - This was about what time?
Mr. JARMAN - That was about 12:25 or 12:28.
Representative FORD - You got off the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - As you rode the elevator, you noticed the other one was on the sixth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - Right, sir.


So Jarman has a range from 12:20 to 12:28 but it is NOT likely 12:28 since Bonnie Ray Willams HAS to leave the SN window by about not later than 12:23:30 so  there is enough time for some shooter to walk onto the floor some 180 ft to that window, and place a box on the ledge not later than approx 12:25

Norman and Jarman started up from the front of the TSBD about 12.22pm. They likely arrived about 12.24 or so. Jarman‘s estimate of about 12.25 or later seems about right. Williams' disappearance just after fits with Rowland's observations.

[Alan Ford]

If Dougherty didn’t move the west elevator after Baker and Truly ascended and before they arrived on the 5th floor, who did? Who called it down to the first, moved it and then left the gates open after Jarman and Norman left it on the 5th? From what I can make out it was either Dougherty or a huge hole in the WC narrative.

I'm thinking the latter, Mr Crow: i.e., that that elevator was used by whoever had been on the sixth floor.

Rowland saw the man in the 6th floor window from about 200ft, not from a few feet.

OK, so let's not use a blurry dark frame from TV footage taken from a few feet away to press any case! 

[Colin Crow]

I'm thinking the latter, Mr Crow: i.e., that that elevator was used by whoever had been on the sixth floor.

OK, so let's not use a blurry dark frame from TV footage taken from a few feet away to press any case! 

So let’s use something from 200 ft and six floors up.....agree?  That frame was something I stumbled across on a YouTube video.