Gus Rose

[John Iacoletti]

Yet, after almost 56-years of trying, there is no credible evidence of a conspiracy. Why don't you try to work out why that exists?

The "credible" qualifier just allows you to disregard anything that doesn't fit in to your narrative.

[Walt Cakebread]

It's worse than that.  Vince claimed that Oswald told Fritz about the 1026 Beckley address between 2:25 and 2:30, and his cited source for that information is a document that doesn't actually say that.  Which is why it's important to actually follow the citations when an author makes a claim like that.  Vince was either incredibly sloppy or he was hoping that nobody would check.

Fritz wanted it to appear that Lee was uncooperative and evasive.....When in reality  Lee himself told Fritz that he rented a room at 1026 N. Beckley.

[Bill Chapman]

Well I am sorry they failed to interrogate Fritz further. These guys just seem to forget lots of little things. I wonder why Vince made up the conversation where Oswald told Fritz.....much neater isn’t it? Even footnoted.....wonder what that says.

"… You better watch out
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem…"

Pink Floyd

These guys just seem to forget lots of little things

LOL

Is there anything in your life that isn't larded with sinister intent?

[Charles Collins]

It's worse than that.  Vince claimed that Oswald told Fritz about the 1026 Beckley address between 2:25 and 2:30, and his cited source for that information is a document that doesn't actually say that.  Which is why it's important to actually follow the citations when an author makes a claim like that.  Vince was either incredibly sloppy or he was hoping that nobody would check.

The questions that Colin asked that I responded with the source note for were:

What did Michael say to the WC? When did Ruth and Marina say? Buddy Wathers testified too. When did the first cops arrive at 1026 North Beckley? Are these times all consistent with 3.30 entry for Rose and the others? I believe that time to be too late because there never was a 40 minute delay waiting for Walthers, Weatherford and Oxford.

Is there any footnote for that quote? Their time of arrival is obviously significant. I contend that by 3.30pm, Marina, Ruth, Michael and Linnie May would all have been aware he was in custody via media.

My answer was:

When did the first cops arrive at 1026 North Beckley? Are these times all consistent with 3.30 entry for Rose and the others?

On page 116 of “Reclaiming History,” it states that LHO told Fritz about the 1026 Beckley address between 2:25 and 2:30. And he sends Cunningham Senkel and Potts there to search his room. So I don’t see why you believe that the time of their arrival at 1026 North Beckley is relevant to this discussion.

As you can see I was merely showing that the time of the arrival of the officers at the Paine's was not relevant to the time of the arrival of the officers at the North Beckley address. Then Colin relpied:

Mr. BALL. Yes. What did you do after you had sent the officers to Irving?
Mr. FRITZ. When I started to talk to this prisoner or maybe just before I started to talk to him, some officer told me outside of my office that he had a room on Beckley, I don't know who that officer was, I think we can find out, I have since I have talked to you this morning I have talked to Lieutenant Baker and he says I know maybe who that officer was, but I am not sure yet.
Mr. BALL. Some officer told you that he thought this man had a room on Beckley?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.

That’s what Fritz actually testified.

However, if Colin had been complete (and/or honest)  in his "research" he would have found that the testimony of Fritz didn't end there. Please read on past where Colin left off and you will see what Bugliosi based his interpretation on. The testimony is a little convoluted, as many of them are, and I am currently unable to cut and paste it here, so you will have to look it up yourself. However, Bugliosi's interpretation appears reasonable to me.



The prior footnote in RH was 604. 4 H 207, 210,214 WCT John Will Fritz. That is the source note for the part of the dialogue concerning how Fritz obtained the address. The 605. CE 2003, 24 H 286 source note is an additional source that confirms the officers were sent to the North Beckley address (which is the question I was responding to when I posted it).

[Charles Collins]

The "credible" qualifier just allows you to disregard anything that doesn't fit in to your narrative.

Have you ever seen the connect the dots games? Where you connect the dots (periods) then see what the picture is?

The CT version has no dots (periods), only question marks.

 

[Charles Collins]

How unfortunate Iacoletti called your bluff...


Further comment by Iacoletti:

He jumped to conclusions without researching it for himself (see my latest responce to him. Typical...

[Colin Crow]

The questions that Colin asked that I responded with the source note for were:

My answer was:

As you can see I was merely showing that the time of the arrival of the officers at the Paine's was not relevant to the time of the arrival of the officers at the North Beckley address. Then Colin relpied:

However, if Colin had been complete (and/or honest)  in his "research" he would have found that the testimony of Fritz didn't end there. Please read on past where Colin left off and you will see what Bugliosi based his interpretation on. The testimony is a little convoluted, as many of them are, and I am currently unable to cut and paste it here, so you will have to look it up yourself. However, Bugliosi's interpretation appears reasonable to me.



The prior footnote in RH was 604. 4 H 207, 210,214 WCT John Will Fritz. That is the source note for the part of the dialogue concerning how Fritz obtained the address. The 605. CE 2003, 24 H 286 source note is an additional source that confirms the officers were sent to the North Beckley address (which is the question I was responding to when I posted it).

So kind of you to question my honesty Charles. While the questioning of Fritz does not make it clear, it certainly implies that an officer indicated Oswald has an address on Beckley prior to Oswald confirming it. Fritz did not remember whether that information was passed on prior to commencing the first interrogation or during that event. It occurred outside his office.

We know that about 15 minutes after the arrival of the cops at the Paine’s, Walthers related the roominghouse phone number back to Decker and the address was cross checked from that. Surely it is possible that this was how Fritz was informed. Alternatively the was a mystery officer who knew about the Beckley address independently. As I said, it is unfortunate that the officer was not identified so that we could be certain how the information was obtained.

Charles, I was not questioning the recollections expressed by Rose in your original post, merely when they occurred. The 3.30pm time frame makes no sense to me and I question the need for a 40 minute wait. I can find no other documentation to suggest it occurred.

The point I would like to pursue is the notion that information was being passed from Irving to Dallas by phone. Do people think that there was information flow the other way? Specifically information about the crime scene. The rifle, the lunch, the long sack and that Frazier had taken him to work. I wonder if the other TSBD employees had notice whether Buell had driven him to work that day.

[John Iacoletti]

However, if Colin had been complete (and/or honest)  in his "research" he would have found that the testimony of Fritz didn't end there. Please read on past where Colin left off and you will see what Bugliosi based his interpretation on. The testimony is a little convoluted, as many of them are, and I am currently unable to cut and paste it here, so you will have to look it up yourself. However, Bugliosi's interpretation appears reasonable to me.

Ok, so Bugliosi doesn't footnote this claim at all.  He just creates an imagined dialogue based on Fritz's testimony and labels it 2:25 PM.

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him anything about his address or did he volunteer the address?
Mr. FRITZ. He volunteered the address at Beckley?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I will tell you, whether we asked him or told him one, he never did deny it, he never did deny the Beckley Street address at all. The only thing was he didn't know whether it was north or south.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him whether it was north or south?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, but he didn't know. But from the description of surroundings we could tell it was North Beckley.
Mr. BALL. Up to that time you hadn't sent any men out to North Beckley, had you?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I sent them out there real soon and Officer Potts called me back from out there and talked to me on the telephone and gave me a report from out there on the telephone, and I am sure that that is the time that he told me about the way he was registered, and I asked Oswald about why he was registered under this other name.
Mr. BALL. What other name?
Mr. FRITZ. Of O. L. Lee.
Mr. BALL. O. H. Lee?
Mr. FRITZ. O. H. Lee. He said, well, the lady didn't understand him, she put it down there and he just left it that way.

Bugliosi:

Fritz asks Oswald if he lives in Irving.
"No," Oswald replies. "I've got a room in Oak Cliff."
"I thought you lived in Irving?" Fritz asks, a little confused. Oswald says, no, he lives
at 1026 Beckley. Although he doesn't know whether the address is North or South Beckley,
Fritz and his detectives can tell from Oswald's description of the area that it's North
Beckley.
"Who lives in Irving?" Fritz asks.
"My wife is staying out there with friends," Oswald says.604 Fritz steps out into the
outer office and instructs Lieutenant Cunningham of the Forgery Bureau, along with
Detectives Billy Senkel and Walter Potts, to go out to 1026 North Beckley and search
Oswald's rented room.605

Note that the 604 footnote is on the statement "My wife is staying out there with friends".

Fritz's handwritten notes don't have anything about the rooming house address.  And also Fritz in his testimony waffles over whether Oswald gave him the address or they already had it and asked Oswald.  Besides, Vince doesn't say why he states that his imagined dialogue took place at 2:25.